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DeathReaper wrote:

Grimgar314 wrote:With zogworts curse the model is not killed or removed from play. Its statline special rules and wargear change. That is not being removed from play, it is being altered.

Really?

Is St. Celestine still in play after the Squiging?

Or is she removed and replaced with a squig?

If its the later you place a marker.

Hmm then I guess st. c can come back as it is replaced by the squig model. My bad.

Grimgar314 wrote:

DeathReaper wrote:

Grimgar314 wrote:With zogworts curse the model is not killed or removed from play. Its statline special rules and wargear change. That is not being removed from play, it is being altered.

Really?

Is St. Celestine still in play after the Squiging?

Or is she removed and replaced with a squig?

If its the later you place a marker.

Hmm then I guess st. c can come back as it is replaced by the squig model. My bad.

What's wrong with you, you aren't supposed to admit you are wrong on the internet!

You are supposed to go on for 10 pages back and forth!

Geez.

Agree, replacing a model consists of pulling one model and setting down another. By the FAQ, you could get any number of Celestine the living Squig over a game.

Just curious, is St. Celestine fearless? If not, what would happen if she left the table by falling back?
What happens if she deep strikes, mishaps and is placed into reserves? Would you have two Celestines?

For the latter, she was never on the table in the first place, so she wasn't removed.

As above - when you scatter you only have a marker in play, not the actual unit.

nosferatu1001 wrote:As above - when you scatter you only have a marker in play, not the actual unit.

Actually, that's not true.

P95: First place one model from the unit anywhere on the table, in the position you would like the unit to arrive and roll the scatter dice.
She is on the table.

P95: Terrible Accident ... The entire unit is destroyed!

She is on the table, scatters into something bad and is destroyed. So you place her marker and she can come back.

As for fallback, P44: If any model from a unit that is falling back comes into contact with a table edge, the entire unit is removed from the game and counts as destroyed.

Right now, there is literally no way that I know of to stop her from coming back.

Of course, since she's fearless and I would never deepstrike her, those don't come up for me.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Although, if you attached her to a unit and used a different model from the unit as the first model, she could be destroyed since she was never on the table in the first place.

"in the position you would like the unit to arrive "

The unit hasnt arrived. It is simply a marker, not the unit itself.

nosferatu1001 wrote:"in the position you would like the unit to arrive "

The unit hasnt arrived. It is simply a marker, not the unit itself.

Kind of, but the marker is her model, hence her model is on the table and in play. When she is destroyed, she is removed as a casualty/removed from play. Hence she gets to come back.

Jidmah wrote: Just curious, is St. Celestine fearless? If not, what would happen if she left the table by falling back?

She's Fearless, but if joined to a non-Fearless unit could still be forced to fall back. If the unit were to hit the table edge, it is "removed from the game and counts as destroyed". Based on that, I'd say place Celestine's marker at the table edge where the unit ran off and next turn start rolling for MI.

pretre wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:"in the position you would like the unit to arrive "

The unit hasnt arrived. It is simply a marker, not the unit itself.

Kind of, but the marker is her model, hence her model is on the table and in play. When she is destroyed, she is removed as a casualty/removed from play. Hence she gets to come back.

The model is a marker, meaning she is never "in play" - she mishaps and is destroyed / delayed / misplaced before entering play.

Indeed, as far as deep-striking goes, I think the model is just a cinematic marker.

You could just as easily use a blade of grass. But it is less uniform and less cinematic.

Unit1126PLL wrote:Indeed, as far as deep-striking goes, I think the model is just a cinematic marker.

You could just as easily use a blade of grass. But it is less uniform and less cinematic.

We can't use a blade of grass though because the rules tell us to use a model from the unit.

pretre wrote:

Unit1126PLL wrote:Indeed, as far as deep-striking goes, I think the model is just a cinematic marker.

You could just as easily use a blade of grass. But it is less uniform and less cinematic.

We can't use a blade of grass though because the rules tell us to use a model from the unit.

Definitely correct.
I just meant that the rules could do almost as well telling us to use a blade of grass / poker chip / Russian woman. It's just that using the model is easy (have it on hand) and cinematic. And it's easier to keep consistency.

Unit1126PLL wrote:I just meant that the rules could do almost as well telling us to use a blade of grass / poker chip / Russian woman. It's just that using the model is easy (have it on hand) and cinematic. And it's easier to keep consistency.

I disagree with that contention but both of our opinions are trying to define RAI. What's important is that RAW tells us to use a model from the unit.

However ever much i want her to comeback after squiging its not there.

So if i squiged an ever living model what is stopping it from coming back?

if i squiged thrawn whats stopping him from coming back.

if i squiged Commissar yarrick whats stopping him.


The model is Replaced by a squig. and according to Deathreapers rules when ever i pick up my model to even move it, since it has left the table i get a counter, so if i keep picking it and placing it i have infinite ST.Cs

Her Miraculs intervention only kicks in when the rules allow it too. if she is warprifted or RFPaaC.

Her rules do not work when she is Replaced. the word remove is not in Zogwarts curse. therefor is not applicable to ANY of the above


Automatically Appended Next Post:

DeathReaper wrote:As long as you are removing Saint Celestine from play, even if you are replacing her with a different model, you place a marker and she rolls to come back.

This is because you remove her from the table, and that is removing her from play.

The argument is that since St C is not on the board, she has been removed from play. (I know I'm going to get some flak for this, but...) EL is used when removed from play as a casualty, Yarrick (and I think Thrawn not sure off hand) come-back rule kicks in when they lose their last wound. St C comes back from RFP. However, since, turning her into a squig does not specify she is RFP, ipso facto she cannot come back.

So she's still in play? Or is she gone?

She is still in play, with a new statline and no wargear or special rules.

Happyjew wrote:She is still in play, with a new statline and no wargear or special rules.

Qft.

Happyjew wrote:She is still in play, with a new statline and no wargear or special rules.

No. St. Celestine is not in play, as her model, and rules are not there.

How can she be in play if she is off the board and you are not using any of her rules in the game?

because at the time she is turned in to a squig she has no rules?

when you put the squig on the table, and remove her form play, her rules for MI kick in.

why? where i zogwarts curse does it say remove? at no time is she RFP or RFPaaC so her rules do not kick in

So replacing her with a squig is not removing her from play?

If not then I guess she gets to run around and kill things still.

DeathReaper wrote:If not then I guess she gets to run around and kill things still.

Using the rules of a squig.

Did the necron FAQ not say something about everliving versus rules that replace?
I tend to see st celstine as a more unkillable character then anything with everliving due to the need to balance her points cost, so if an everliving model can avoid being squiged then I see no reason for her not to he able to pull the same thing.

That is a squig, not St. Celestine, as St. Celestine has been removed from play.

rigeld2 wrote:

DeathReaper wrote:If not then I guess she gets to run around and kill things still.

Using the rules of a squig.

she can feel free to run around as a squig. till she dies and does not come back

DeathReaper wrote:That is a squig, not St. Celestine, as St. Celestine has been removed from play.

No, it's St. Celestine, using the rules of a squig.
Does it change the model's name?

No, its a squig using the rules of a squig.

St. Celestine, both model and rules, have been removed from play.