Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

jy2 wrote:Will be out today. Now if someone can do me a favor and post one more comment so I can begin this report on p.2. Thanks.

I got you. I have played my deathwing vs. Necrons. I have to say that necrons struggle with 2+/3+ saves. The only thing good at taking them out is loads of scarabs. I see deathwing not just winning but pounding the necrons.

Thanks TK.

I feel that Deathwing may give the crons a lot of problems as well. Let's see if necron mobility and volume-of-attacks will be able to make up for their lack of power weapon attacks.


--------------------------------------------------------------



Game #2 - Necrons vs Deathwing


2K Deathwing

Belial

Vendread - Heavy Flamer, Multi-melta, Drop Pod

5x Terminators - 4x TH/SS, 1x Cyclone Missile Launcher & Chainfist, Apothecary, Company Banner
5x Terminators - 4x TH/SS, 1x Cyclone Missile Launcher & Chainfist
5x Terminators - 4x TH/SS, 1x Cyclone Missile Launcher & Chainfist
5x Terminators - 4x TH/SS, 1x Cyclone Missile Launcher
5x Terminators - 4x TH/SS, 1x Cyclone Missile Launcher
5x Terminators - 4x TH/SS, 1x Cyclone Missile Launcher

Land Speeder - Multi-melta
Land Speeder Typhoon
Land Speeder Typhoon

1995


-------------------------------------------------------------------


Mission: Seize Ground - 5 Objectives

Deployment: Pitched Battle

Initiative: Deathwing


-------------------------------------------------------------------


Necron Tactics:
This is going to be a much different game than against the grey knights. I don't need to be as concerned about shooting here. What I do need to watch out for is assault. That is where I expect them to do the most damage. However, I feel that the crons should have a huge advantage here in that they can dictate where and when to fight. My strategy will be to avoid the fights too early. Hit them later in the game and tie them up. If an opportunity presents itself, then my wraiths and Overlord will gang up on those terminators. That is the only way I can overcome them in assault.

Against the speeders, I will focus my tremor-teks to try to immobilize them. Otherwise, the wraiths will have their hands full with the terminators. I think it will be a tough battle but not an unwinnable one. I just need to rely on my strength, which is my mobility.


Deathwing Tactics:
My strategy for deathwing is to spread out the wraiths by threatening their troops. I plan to deepstrike 2 units of terminators to the flanks and force the wraiths to split up. Then drop the vendread in the middle to occupy the middle wraiths. Those units should hold them for a few turns and may even beat them depending on how well they do on their saves. Then while they are occupied, the rest of my army will be advancing to control the middle and threaten the core of their army.

Speeders will go after their transports. Terminators will help out against the command barges as well, unless there is an unit within assault range for them. Speeders will bide their time for a late-game contest. I think with what little shooting the necrons have, the speeders actually have a good chance of surviving unless they send in the wraiths to help out.


--------------------------------------------------------------


Deployment:




--------------------------------------------------------------


Deathwing 1




Necrons 1




Deathwing 2




Necrons 2




Deathwing 3




Necrons 3




Deathwing 4




Necrons 4




Deathwing 5




Necrons 5

Thanks for posting these test games JY2, they are informative and great fun to read. Being a new necron player I have been running a pure Shooty list (to much success) so I enjoy seeing how you run CC aggressive style. Do you feel that to use the Wraith units effectively you should play them aggressively or can they fill a counter Assault role in gun line army?

I have to say I played a game last night with my new Wraiths and they didn't fare that great for me tbh. Admitted my wraiths got assaulted and I rolled poorly but there weren't the stellar CC unit I was expecting. On the plus side they are excellent tar pit units, they stay in combat for 2 turns with a 10 Jump pack Marines.

How much do you rate the C'tan shards? Do you find there cost and threat level an issue?

Nakor The BlueRider wrote:Thanks for posting these test games JY2, they are informative and great fun to read. Being a new necron player I have been running a pure Shooty list (to much success) so I enjoy seeing how you run CC aggressive style. Do you feel that to use the Wraith units effectively you should play them aggressively or can they fill a counter Assault role in gun line army?

I have to say I played a game last night with my new Wraiths and they didn't fare that great for me tbh. Admitted my wraiths got assaulted and I rolled poorly but there weren't the stellar CC unit I was expecting. On the plus side they are excellent tar pit units, they stay in combat for 2 turns with a 10 Jump pack Marines.

How much do you rate the C'tan shards? Do you find there cost and threat level an issue?

They can definitely play a counter-assault role and as a scavenger unit to try to pick out units that your shooting de-mechs. If anything, the wraiths will help to draw fire from your otherwise fragile scythes and keep them alive a little longer (unless you're running ghost arks instead).

Regarding wraiths and close-combat, let me share with you an excerpt from my Wraith Tactica (just started, won't finish until after these battle reports). BTW, the tactica can be found here http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/448187.page.

jy2 wrote:Wraiths Are Not Uber-Assault Units!

"He who knows when he can fight and when he cannot, will be victorious."

Many seem to be under the impression that wraiths are ultra-killy, uber-assault units. They are not. They are good combat units and can handle most regular infantry. However, throw numbers at them such as 10-man marine squads or stubborn units and you can actually hold them in combat for a few rounds. Worse yet, units with better resistance (i.e. terminators, FNP marines) will actually give them problems, even in smallish squads.

You can actually beat them in combat if you throw even medium assault units into them if you have the numbers. Units such as decked-out grey hunters (with mark, power weapon/fists, wolf guards and standard), berserkers, genestealers, furiously charging BA assault squads and other units with large volumes of attacks can actually hurt wraiths if they can get the charge off.

Against these units, wraiths actually need help. And that is why I also normally run command barge Overlords as well as multiple wraith units in my armies. It is against these types of armies where I have a secondary unit ready to help out "on the fly".

On the flip side, against dangerous enemy assault units that wraiths cannot overcome, then wraiths are used instead to tarpit these units. Thanks to their resiliency, they can actually survive assault from smaller squads of TH/SS assault terminators, paladins and other such units. Just don't expect them to hold off larger 10-man dedicated assault units for too long. Then if you feel that you can overcome such a unit, help out those wraiths with your counter-attack forces (i.e. other wraith units, Overlords, etc.). Just be careful about sending scarabs in to help out, especially if it is against a unit with a lot of insta-death weaponry (i.e. S6 or better weaponry, nemesis force weapons). If the unit is too strong (i.e. 10-man TH/SS or Draigowing deathstars), just ignore and go after other easier targets.

The C'tan works best when they can help to buff up the army. And I find Writhing Worldscape (i.e. Tremorcrons) to be the best ability. Otherwise, I am not too keen on a slow monstrous creature in an otherwise very fast and mobile army. The costs is high, but I think it is worth it as long as it can benefit the army.

Lol, dumb idea but super funny: using dimensional corridor to leap C'tan from reserve or back field from a monolith.... Sorry, concept just seems funny to me right now I'm tired...

Game #2 completed on p.2

Poor Deathwing, not much went right for them. 33 S8 attacks should work in most cases, but bad rolling on one side and good rolling on the other can change any odds. (what is it, 16 hits, 13 wounds, should be about 5 dead wraiths?)

Right when I saw that the deathwing were gonna split up to try and split up the necron forces I knew it was gonna be a rough game. If you split up in attempt to get your opponent to split up they can just ignore one side and fight the other. The 56th excels at this

I would love to play this one out as the deathwing player.

C'est la vis!

Red Corsair wrote:Lol, dumb idea but super funny: using dimensional corridor to leap C'tan from reserve or back field from a monolith.... Sorry, concept just seems funny to me right now I'm tired...

Using the monolith to teleport the C'tan is actually a viable strategy. The issue is reliability. To move distances, most likely you're going to have to deepstrike the monolith. Now we all know the risks of reserves, especially if they don't come in for a while. And if you're facing a melta-heavy army, then you might as well deploy the mono with the rest of your army rather than to drop it into enemy territory. Overall, you can use the tactic if the opportunity exists, but don't go out of your ways to create that opportunity.

motyak wrote:Poor Deathwing, not much went right for them. 33 S8 attacks should work in most cases, but bad rolling on one side and good rolling on the other can change any odds. (what is it, 16 hits, 13 wounds, should be about 5 dead wraiths?)

Yeah, it was a combination of bad rolling for deathwing (their shooting couldn't do anything) and some good rolling by crons (good saves by wraiths). But what really hurt deathwing was the mishap by their HQ unit. Otherwise, if they had landed successfully, I think it would have been a totally different game. But as it was, the crons didn't have to worry about deathwing's most dangerous unit for a while. It was almost like a 2K army vs a 1600pt army handicap match. And then the dice did them (deathwing) no favors on top of that.

Tomb King wrote:Right when I saw that the deathwing were gonna split up to try and split up the necron forces I knew it was gonna be a rough game. If you split up in attempt to get your opponent to split up they can just ignore one side and fight the other. The 56th excels at this

I would love to play this one out as the deathwing player.

While I would normally agree about not splitting up, in this case, there was good reason to.

1. Keep in mind that those terminators are troops and were actually going for the objectives on the flanks. So necrons would have to eventually deal with them or give up the objective.

2. Deploying on those objectives would force the necron troops coming in from reserves to move away from them (the objectives and terminators). They would then be out of position.

3. Trying to split up the wraiths to prevent the double-teams. Against 1 unit of wraiths, a 5-man terminator unit has a good chance of winning and surviving. Against 2 units and advantage goes to the wraiths.

4. The 2 initial deepstriking units (and the vendread) were actually cannon fodder units meant to distract and perhaps tie up the wraiths early in assault, buying time for the rest of the army to close in.

5. I meant to take away the Positional Dominance of the highly mobile crons. Instead of letting them control the Movement phase, I'm trying to dictate where they will be going, thus establishing the positional advantage for deathwing. From my experiences with Wraithwing (and my MTO necrons), they can beat better armies with superior offense by controlling the Movement phase.

I like the turtle o_o what is it?

Lol. Those are the objectives in game #1.


Wow, you've got a lot of posts, Lunahound, for someone who's only been here exactly 1 year before me.

Wonderful battle reports as always Jy2. It really is amazing how much resiliency and mobility these "assault" crons have.

Here is a list of teams that I think they would not fair so well against
Horde orks: BattleWagons hard to pen and orks will really hold up well in CC
TWC Space wolves: Thunder Wolves can equalize some of the mobility
IG Template spam: doesnt need to move as much so less vulnerable to tremor and high volume of ranged fire imo would make things difficult. Could blob up the wraiths
Dark Eldar raider/wrack spam: works like the msu list ,but has more mobility and can feed units to keep the wraiths in combat without reaching objectives
Maybe Daemons : Not too familiar with them but with eternal warrior, deepstrike, low costing units to hold objectives ,I think they could be a formidable problem.

I played 3 necrons at a tournament this weekend, two had units of 6 wraiths and they were a pain the entire time. I ran 12 daemonettes into them in one game and over the course of the combat had 10 or 12 saves passed as they wiped them - wraiths present the same dilemma to daemons as thss, daemons tend to rely on ignoring armor and struggle to put down a lot of wounds in many cases.

The second game, I was able to get my fiends into the wraiths and they shredded them-put 15 or 16 wounds on them which took down half his wraiths. The fiends then proceeded to wreckhouse hopping from combat to combat killing a Ctan, a unit of scarab and immortals...go fiends?

The advantage of daemons on this list is horror units can drop near any warriors in the open and it only takes 20 shots to put down 5 warriors with warpfire, or 5 horrors of shooting

Nice report overall, did you consider dsing further back after belials squad missed so you could better concentrate your forces?

whitespirit wrote:Wonderful battle reports as always Jy2. It really is amazing how much resiliency and mobility these "assault" crons have.

Here is a list of teams that I think they would not fair so well against
Horde orks: BattleWagons hard to pen and orks will really hold up well in CC
TWC Space wolves: Thunder Wolves can equalize some of the mobility
IG Template spam: doesnt need to move as much so less vulnerable to tremor and high volume of ranged fire imo would make things difficult. Could blob up the wraiths
Dark Eldar raider/wrack spam: works like the msu list ,but has more mobility and can feed units to keep the wraiths in combat without reaching objectives
Maybe Daemons : Not too familiar with them but with eternal warrior, deepstrike, low costing units to hold objectives ,I think they could be a formidable problem.

Wraithwing crons are good, but they're definitely not a full-proof army. Armies with just as much mobility or armies with a lot of cheap tarpit units or with volume-of-fire/attacks may give wraiths a run for their money. The builds that you've listed definitely may give wraithwing a tough time, especially DE and perhaps horde orks. Too bad there's not a whole lot of DE and ork players with really competitive builds in my area. I'd love to try out my army against them.

TWC space wolves I'm not so sure. They're so much more expensive than the wraiths. I think if they were to get into combat, they would remain "stuck" there for a while. Meanwhile, it'll be like 1250pts of necrons vs 1000pts of SW for the rest of the game. It's hard to say. Maybe I can get in a game against Frankie's (from ZeroComp) Wolfstar TWC list.

A 50-man blob squad may be able to tie up the wraiths....unless I double/triple-charge them. Then they will lose, though it'll take a few turns.

Daemons...let's just say, I have a game planned out for that already. In such a game, if the daemon reserves don't go too well (i.e. they trickle in), then I think the crons will take it. Also, if necrons go first, then daemons will find it hard to land as the crons spread out.

calypso2ts wrote:I played 3 necrons at a tournament this weekend, two had units of 6 wraiths and they were a pain the entire time. I ran 12 daemonettes into them in one game and over the course of the combat had 10 or 12 saves passed as they wiped them - wraiths present the same dilemma to daemons as thss, daemons tend to rely on ignoring armor and struggle to put down a lot of wounds in many cases.

The second game, I was able to get my fiends into the wraiths and they shredded them-put 15 or 16 wounds on them which took down half his wraiths. The fiends then proceeded to wreckhouse hopping from combat to combat killing a Ctan, a unit of scarab and immortals...go fiends?

The advantage of daemons on this list is horror units can drop near any warriors in the open and it only takes 20 shots to put down 5 warriors with warpfire, or 5 horrors of shooting

Nice report overall, did you consider dsing further back after belials squad missed so you could better concentrate your forces?

Any plans to do some batreps or mini-reps? I think it could be very educational.

Did any of them run 2 units of wraiths? I think that will be even more problematic for daemons. While I think daemons do have the volume-of-attacks (fiends, seekers) to deal with necrons, the problem here is that the crons may be dictating the flow of the game. That is, they will be dictating where the battles will take place with their very long reach. Dunno. Honestly, I see wraithwing as a very tough matchup for daemons.

Yeah, horrors can prove a problem to the necron warriors. Against them, you definitely can't leave your warriors out in the open. Either put them in terrain or reserve them.

Looking back now, it would have been more prudent to DS the 2nd unit of termies further back to get support from the rest of the army. However, I was committed to the strategy during the game because I was "collecting data" on tactics against wraithwing and wanted to see the results of that particular strategy, whether a smashing success or dismal failure. It was also somewhat of a gamble, but then again, I'm a player who oftentimes like to take some calculated risks.

jy2 wrote:

Looking back now, it would have been more prudent to DS the 2nd unit of termies further back to get support from the rest of the army. However, I was committed to the strategy during the game because I was "collecting data" on tactics against wraithwing and wanted to see the results of that particular strategy, whether a smashing success or dismal failure. It was also somewhat of a gamble, but then again, I'm a player who oftentimes like to take some calculated risks.

Ah, its all much clearer now.

I was very confused reading the first few turns of the Deathwing game as the play was (disappointingly) sub-par. Uncharacteristic of your battle reports jy2. I suppose if you were testing DW tactics, then splitting up what was already a small force (especially after the 1st mishap!) was an idea worth testing.

Despite that, I think the game we would have seen if you had kept your DW forces together and concentrated them like you did with your wraiths would have been much closer and enjoyable game. You would have forced the wraiths to double team your termies, which would have allowed you to double team with with 33+S8 attacks. Your fodder units might have been more useful for setting up charges for the 'meat' of your army. As far as positional dominance is concerned the deathwing could very well have hunkered down on their own 3 objective triangle and weathered the beating your 'crons gave them and hit them right back with the full force of their terminators. Trying to tie units up on the flanking objectives could only benefit the more mobile army, and essentially gave the wraiths a stepping stone to engage your main thrust, handing them positional dominance.

I plan to write the tournament up and to do the first battle tonight, it was a random teams tournament so a bit different.

Just have to get back from lathe in laws and off this tablet!

I understand what you are trying to do with these reports but I personally would find playing myself a very bland experience. You know ALL the tricks you can pull and won't really leave your comfort zone, or do anything you don't expect, something an actual opponent will probably do over the course of a game. That said I appreciate the effort put in to help understand Wraiths a bit better.

Something I was also disappointed with was how the 2nd game was dictated by dice rolls. There isn't really anything you can do when your opponent continually makes saves like a champ and your own units mishap. Do you feel the game would have been different had this not been the case? My personal feelings are that Deathwing are now the dark horses in any competitive setting as they are essentially an anti-meta build. Basically, I feel this 2nd game should have been a loss for the Crons.

After again looking at the DW game he could have played them pretty much one of two ways .Agressive or Defensive. of the two he chose offensive. If he had not I think the tremorcrons would have been more in play even then they were and would have caused a DW loss due to once again IMO lack of mobility.
As for TWC I may be wrong but I can see fenrisian wolves pack and thunder wolf cavalry with their increased mobility forcing the wraiths to play a little more defensively to stop them from come across and taking out the small warrior squads. I noticed how the DW vendread delayed the squad of wraiths even if was only for a turn or two. Definetly watching these reps and tactica with interest as I have faced Jy2 a "few" times.

Mobility doesn't matter that much in the course of 5 turns with a DW list. Had he formed a phalanx and marched it to the objectives and simply saved the speeders for contesting in reserves this could have easily been a "V" for the DW. Those wraiths shouldn't be able to weather 30 TH/SS terminators.

I also felt the 'Split there forces" trick is a gambit that could only work when your not playing yourself. So to me it seemed silly to play a Trojan horse, or bait stratagem against ones own self. Of course your not going to fall for your own bait.

Also I hate seeing typhoons as being the speeder of choice every where. A tornado is 20pts cheaper with a MM and HF and can threaten armor and infantry much better IMO. This isn't a critique to Jim though as he was using a "common" list. Just a point I want to make and figured here is as good as any place.

Just my worthless 2 cents though

Still very well done bat reps, thank you for sharing.

Red Corsair wrote: Also I hate seeing typhoons as being the speeder of choice every where. A tornado is 20pts cheaper with a MM and HF and can threaten armor and infantry much better IMO. This isn't a critique to Jim though as he was using a "common" list. Just a point I want to make and figured here is as good as any place.

Just my worthless 2 cents though

Still very well done bat reps, thank you for sharing.

One quick point, for DW its almost always good to take typhoons over tornados, as a MM/heavy flamer is the same cost as typhoon MM or typhoon heavy bolter.

BTW, in Game #2, I apologize, but my deathwing list is actually a little over 2K at 2025pts. Those terminator squads are 215pts base. I thought they were 210pts.

Sekminara wrote:

jy2 wrote:

Looking back now, it would have been more prudent to DS the 2nd unit of termies further back to get support from the rest of the army. However, I was committed to the strategy during the game because I was "collecting data" on tactics against wraithwing and wanted to see the results of that particular strategy, whether a smashing success or dismal failure. It was also somewhat of a gamble, but then again, I'm a player who oftentimes like to take some calculated risks.

Ah, its all much clearer now.

I was very confused reading the first few turns of the Deathwing game as the play was (disappointingly) sub-par. Uncharacteristic of your battle reports jy2. I suppose if you were testing DW tactics, then splitting up what was already a small force (especially after the 1st mishap!) was an idea worth testing.

Despite that, I think the game we would have seen if you had kept your DW forces together and concentrated them like you did with your wraiths would have been much closer and enjoyable game. You would have forced the wraiths to double team your termies, which would have allowed you to double team with with 33+S8 attacks. Your fodder units might have been more useful for setting up charges for the 'meat' of your army. As far as positional dominance is concerned the deathwing could very well have hunkered down on their own 3 objective triangle and weathered the beating your 'crons gave them and hit them right back with the full force of their terminators. Trying to tie units up on the flanking objectives could only benefit the more mobile army, and essentially gave the wraiths a stepping stone to engage your main thrust, handing them positional dominance.

Yeah, I think that is how the more experienced DW players would have probably played it. Just march up and shoot with 30 assault terminators and dare the opponent to assault them. It's definitely the "safer" play. I just wanted to try another tactic to see if it was viable. One of my theories on how to play against wraiths is to force them to make difficult decisions and also to split them up. That was what I was trying to achieve here.

Now if you are on the opponent's objective, it really doesn't matter how mobile they are. They will have to come to you to try to dislodge you from it because the necron troops certainly doesn't have the mobility to reach the enemy's objective. That was how I was trying to neutralize their (necron's) mobility advantage. By forcing them to go where I want them to go.

Though I suppose advancing 30 terminators down the opponent's throat is a solid strategy as well and probably less of a gamble.

calypso2ts wrote:I plan to write the tournament up and to do the first battle tonight, it was a random teams tournament so a bit different.

Just have to get back from lathe in laws and off this tablet!

Looking forwards to it.

Lukus83 wrote:I understand what you are trying to do with these reports but I personally would find playing myself a very bland experience. You know ALL the tricks you can pull and won't really leave your comfort zone, or do anything you don't expect, something an actual opponent will probably do over the course of a game. That said I appreciate the effort put in to help understand Wraiths a bit better.

Something I was also disappointed with was how the 2nd game was dictated by dice rolls. There isn't really anything you can do when your opponent continually makes saves like a champ and your own units mishap. Do you feel the game would have been different had this not been the case? My personal feelings are that Deathwing are now the dark horses in any competitive setting as they are essentially an anti-meta build. Basically, I feel this 2nd game should have been a loss for the Crons.

Yeah, I agree for the most part. Definitely much different to play against others than against yourself. But sometimes, I want to test out my army against a certain build and it's just not always easy to find a person with the specific army build or expertise or a flexible enough schedule that you are looking for. I also work some fairly odd hours (usually 3-10) and weekends as well so can usually only get in 1 game a week at most and most of my gaming friends are working as well.

When I play test games, I always try to assume the tactics of an experienced general of that army. For example, MSU builds would screen and shoot. Assault builds such as daemons and others will want to get into combat as quickly as possible. And flexible armies like the grey knights will shoot as much as possible and then engage. Thus to an experienced general, there really isn't too many surprises unless you're playing against an unorthodox list (like other necrons, footdar, dark footdar and other lesser-run builds). But that's why in my test games, you won't really see me run such unorthodox lists. The lists I normally run are rather straight-forwards to play.

I also view this matchup as a tough matchup for my necrons. The dice here did skewer the results somewhat. I was expecting a much rougher game for my crons honestly and if I were to replay this, you can probably expect totally different results. I think the game can go either ways really, but one thing I think this game does show is that a wraithwing army definitely does have the resiliency and offense to be able to compete with a build like deathwing. It might not be easy for crons, but then again, it also wouldn't be a cakewalk for deathwing either.

whitespirit wrote:After again looking at the DW game he could have played them pretty much one of two ways .Agressive or Defensive. of the two he chose offensive. If he had not I think the tremorcrons would have been more in play even then they were and would have caused a DW loss due to once again IMO lack of mobility.
As for TWC I may be wrong but I can see fenrisian wolves pack and thunder wolf cavalry with their increased mobility forcing the wraiths to play a little more defensively to stop them from come across and taking out the small warrior squads. I noticed how the DW vendread delayed the squad of wraiths even if was only for a turn or two. Definetly watching these reps and tactica with interest as I have faced Jy2 a "few" times.

One thing about deathwing is that mobility isn't as big a problem for them in Seize Ground. If then can get onto an objective (and they can easily get to 3 of those objectives), then it's up the necrons to remove them from their objectives. However, I see this strategy as a greater chance for a draw as the crons have the ability to just try to contest later in the game.

I actually think my wraithwing will have more problems against grey hunter-spam than TWC. Maybe next time I'll try to get a game in against Frankie's TWC Wolfstar army when I go to Frontline Gaming. Venerables are very good tarpit units (though you have to be careful as they themselves can be tarpitted by much cheaper units). It takes a lot to kill them. That's why I had no fear dropping the vendread into the midst of the crons.

Red Corsair wrote:Mobility doesn't matter that much in the course of 5 turns with a DW list. Had he formed a phalanx and marched it to the objectives and simply saved the speeders for contesting in reserves this could have easily been a "V" for the DW. Those wraiths shouldn't be able to weather 30 TH/SS terminators.

I also felt the 'Split there forces" trick is a gambit that could only work when your not playing yourself. So to me it seemed silly to play a Trojan horse, or bait stratagem against ones own self. Of course your not going to fall for your own bait.

Also I hate seeing typhoons as being the speeder of choice every where. A tornado is 20pts cheaper with a MM and HF and can threaten armor and infantry much better IMO. This isn't a critique to Jim though as he was using a "common" list. Just a point I want to make and figured here is as good as any place.

Just my worthless 2 cents though

Still very well done bat reps, thank you for sharing.

While the strategy of the phalanx is solid, you really don't need to reserve those speeders, not when you're going first and not with the type of shooting the crons had. And don't forget those Overlords. With MSS, each one can easily tarpit a 5-man TH/SS unit.

Honestly, I don't see the flanking terminators as a baiting stratagem. Whether the wraiths go for it or not, those termies will be on an objective eventually, while preventing the necron troops from going for the objectives. The wraiths will have to deal with them. But their true objective is to try to tie up those wraiths and delay them so that the terminators can establish their positions. I actually thought it had a chance to succeed if only Belial's unit hadn't mishapped. The mistake DW made was to still deepstrike so close to the necron lines after their first unit failed to do so IMO.

Typhoons are cheap for DA. They're only 75pts for the cyclone missile launcher and a heavy bolter. The MM-speeder was 65pts, and the HF/MM speeder would have been 75pts.

tiekwando wrote:
One quick point, for DW its almost always good to take typhoons over tornados, as a MM/heavy flamer is the same cost as typhoon MM or typhoon heavy bolter.

Right. Thanks!

-------------------------------------------------------------------


POST-GAME SUMMARY:

Vs Grey Knights:
I expected this to be a tough fight for my crons and indeed it was. Grey knights manage to actually do pretty well, killing all the wraiths, both overlords and all the transports. Despite the damage they inflicted, however, they were still losing on turns 5 and 6. It took until Turn 7 for them to barely pull off the tie. All this time, necron objective and warriors were never really threatened. Basically, as is common with all my necron games, my wraithwing had the Positional Advantage all along - with positioning, the crons were playing to win whereas the knights were playing not to lose. That's something that people often don't realize. My assault crons don't really beat you by killing you (although that could definitely happen). Rather, they beat you by controlling the Movement phase and dictating where the action will take place.

The knights didn't do nearly as much damage with their nemesis force weapons as they did with their shooting. The damage they did do was more like 66% shooting/33% assault. Honestly, I expected that. I've faced purifiers twice and Draigowing once with my crons and I know they are quite resilient in assault. Then again, I've also played against missile-wolves and melta-spam mech lists and they've survived against those as well. But I still feel that torrent-of-fire is the key to beating wraiths. So far, the armies that have done the most damage to my wraiths are GK S5-stormbolter-spam and war-walker eldar in conjunction with doom/guide.

What could the knights have done differently? Combat-squadding the Interceptors as suggested by Sudojoe might have been a good idea. This way, I would have had 2 units with the ability to contest. It also would have made it harder for those tremor-teks to put both interceptors in dangerous terrain. Also, deploying my strike squads on the hills was a mistake. I did it to get a better lane of fire and to try to deny cover to some of the necron vehicles. However, this wasn't really necessary as I could've seen the taller wraiths even on the ground level and they were the primary targets for the strikers. Going up and down the hills did make a difference as it killed some of my strikers.

Finally, wraiths rolled like champs (except against the psyflemans) and the 2 Overlords rolled like chumps. However, each one did get back up once, which forced the grey knights to have to re-dedicate their resources in taking them out again. The C'tan lord actually did surprisingly well this game. Besides killing many knights with its Writhing Worldscape power, it also helped to finish off the paladins and Grandmaster and killed both dreads. Although I played its Gaze incorrectly, I'm almost tempted to give the MVP of the crons to the C'tan shard.


Vs Deathwing:
This was the first time I was playing deathwing (though I have played against them numerous times before). As a new player, I also tried out a new strategy - to split up and try to tie up the wraiths in their own deployment zone. Well, that didn't go so well. Belial's unit mishapping was huge, and that just ruined my plans. My mistake wasn't in deepstriking them apart. It was still trying to execute my plan after the disastrous first deepstrike. As soon as they mishapped, I should have changed my strategy. Alas, I wanted to see how well that 1 unit of terminators can survive against what was to be a triple-team effort.

What also surprised me was how ineffective deathwing shooting was. All those S8 missiles accounted for not much damage. Might have been better to just run my terminators instead. Which leads me to 2 pet peeves of mine regarding deathwing.

- After running such a fast and mobile army as my assault-crons, I really can't stand how slooowwwww a deathwing build is. Now, normally I don't mind slower armies if they have a lot of shooting to make up for it, but this is not that type of army. Sure this army's got 16 S8 shots, which is a respectable amount of AT, but the problem is that these missile launchers are on assault platforms which is arguably more effective by running. So it's either move real slow and shoot, or forego shooting and run. Now I'm not saying this is bad, it's just that this is not my prefered style of play.

- My other pet peeve is, where's the "grot squad"? Terminators are good objective-holders due to their resiliency, but do you really want that 235pt unit parked on your objective away from the action? Wouldn't he contribute a lot more if he was actually a part of the action? Basically, I could have left 2 terminators on their objectives....but then it would have been 4 units vs the entire necron army. Against the crons, you need all the help you can get. Too bad that deathwing doesn't have troop sniper scouts to sit on an objective and provide fire support.

When deathwing finally got into combat in the middle, I thought that they would wipe out my wraiths. To say that their assault was underwhelming was kind of a understatement. Here you've got 12 assault terminators with insta-killing hammers against 10 wraiths with non-power weapons and an Overlord. I really can't believe the crons would win that war of attrition, though in all fairness, the dice did favor the crons in that exchange. Maybe that's just my luck when running terminators. I have a tendency to roll a lot of 1's with them, which is why I don't normally run terminator-heavy armies anyone (with the exception of Draigowing).

In closing, don't take this game to mean that wraithwing will dominate deathwing. They won't unless they are rolling well (like they did this game) and have some things go there way (like with deathwing deathstar mishapping). Otherwise, expect to see a much closer game that could go either ways.