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Not too fussed about Dwarves. I'll be back if he does Chaos or Dark Elves.

DARK ELVES! X1000

Or a sweet zombies multi-part plastic kit.

I'd also sponsor some all plastic single figures.

RiTides wrote:I really think they should have waited until their warcast issues were worked out... this would have tempted me!

Ditto.

Get all of your WarCast stuff out the door and I'd be tempted to kick in. Preorders for the Warriors of Apoc took 4 months to arrive, and that's on stuff already sculpted. How long is it going to take to sculpt and fill orders for 4 dwarf boxes (Warriors, Thunder Warriors, Iron Guard and Doomcrushers) in addition to all the heros planned?

If I wanted to get the 100 model package I expect I'd have to wait at least a year to get the models. I'll wait for preorders.

I think all of these indiegogo/kickstarter campaigns will see a long delay between funding and models. It's part of the reason they're asking for money now. At least i like 90% of the AOW models -- I'm fine as long as I end up with an awesome looking dwarf army where 75% of the models have their arms at 90 degree angles

And hopefully, some of the money (just like the mantic one) will go towards tooling up to produce faster.

teddet wrote:I think all of these indiegogo/kickstarter campaigns will see a long delay between funding and models. It's part of the reason they're asking for money now.

Ehh it kinda depends. AoW has only artwork while say Zombiecide and Sedition Wars actually have their models up (and zombicide is gearing up for a late summer/early autumn release). So using the word "all" may be too broad.

Unless you specifically meant Wargaming Kickstarters/Indiegogos. Mantic games is a bit similar with really no new models up and about anytime soon it seems

kenshin620 wrote:

teddet wrote:I think all of these indiegogo/kickstarter campaigns will see a long delay between funding and models. It's part of the reason they're asking for money now.

Ehh it kinda depends. AoW has only artwork while say Zombiecide and Sedition Wars actually have their models up (and zombicide is gearing up for a late summer/early autumn release). So using the word "all" may be too broad.

Unless you specifically meant Wargaming Kickstarters/Indiegogos. Mantic games is a bit similar with really no new models up and about anytime soon it seems

...and as for wargaming campaigns there's the relics indiegogo campaign which will have most stuff shipping out in the foreseeable future, too (with lots of goodies! and only 14 ish hours to go! )
I think AoW is the odd man out here. the price isn't phenomenal (preorder prices will be similar) and there's nothing exclusive to IGG backers either. they'll probably make their 20K - barely - but nowhere near the 55K ish they hoped to collect.
I'd love to see them succeed (their models are awesome and relatively affordable) but I don't see the incentive. with mantic the long wait after parting with my money will at least get me free extra models.
they're very good in terms of their product, talents whatsoever, but the business side over at AoW? boy, they have a lot to learn. shame!

ThomasPolder wrote:

kenshin620 wrote:

teddet wrote:I think all of these indiegogo/kickstarter campaigns will see a long delay between funding and models. It's part of the reason they're asking for money now.

Ehh it kinda depends. AoW has only artwork while say Zombiecide and Sedition Wars actually have their models up (and zombicide is gearing up for a late summer/early autumn release). So using the word "all" may be too broad.

Unless you specifically meant Wargaming Kickstarters/Indiegogos. Mantic games is a bit similar with really no new models up and about anytime soon it seems

...and as for wargaming campaigns there's the relics indiegogo campaign which will have most stuff shipping out in the foreseeable future, too (with lots of goodies! and only 14 ish hours to go! )
I think AoW is the odd man out here. the price isn't phenomenal (preorder prices will be similar) and there's nothing exclusive to IGG backers either. they'll probably make their 20K - barely - but nowhere near the 55K ish they hoped to collect.
I'd love to see them succeed (their models are awesome and relatively affordable) but I don't see the incentive. with mantic the long wait after parting with my money will at least get me free extra models.
they're very good in terms of their product, talents whatsoever, but the business side over at AoW? boy, they have a lot to learn. shame!

I see what you guys are saying -- I wasn't thinking of Zombiecide and Sedition Wars (i view them more as "board games"). I will check out relics -- although my interest in Mantic and AOW is for WHFB models, so the further from that the models are, the less useful to me. .

As for price -- I think you're right that mantic is a better deal per model, but it's still sight unseen, and with less proven ability to sculpt models I like (just my opinion ). So I view both campaigns as equal -- one is sight unseen but models I'll almost certainly like. The other is a better deal per model, but models I could hate. So I've supported them both roughly equally.

I think the AoW drive could be doing a lot better if they tinkered with it a little.

Maybe make the higher up rewards a little nicer (since no one has claimed them yet) by say letting more people join in the tour packages so the cost per person is lower. And give a bit nicer discount on the goods once they get there. (I mean, pretty much everyone can get 20% off)

Better yet - make it so that after say $15,000 - everyone who has pledged more than $100 can add an existing AoW hero sculpt for $5-10 as an extra.

Trying to negotiate some better shipping costs might help too.

There's just not a lot making me want to chip in now as opposed to just ordering the stuff when it's released.

Love or hate mantic, they're usually extremely close to the concepts, so you could go by those.

//gah. That's two other campaigns ive advertised here. I'll stop now

After talking to Gaelion on his forum, I think this is going to fail. Worse, I think it deserves to fail.

I suggested he add a hero to the $190 level so that it would actually give you an army, and he said he can't/won't give any more discounts, that he thinks it is "not fair" to offer discounts on anything that has sold at full price before, and that he thinks offering discounts defeats the purpose of the fundraiser.

I suggested that he perform some damage control after Warcast was such an embarrassment for its first release. He said that they've hired another two full time staff and another casting machine just for Warcast, but he refused to come here and actually tell people that the problem was solved.

I also suggested he add a level where he swaps some Warcast releases for plastic, but that got no reply.

As much as I like AoW sculpts, past company performance and the fact that I really don't care much about dwarves means I'll be passing on this.

Pricing is an issue too.

$190 for 100 dwarfs from AoW is pretty much exactly the same as buying 2 GW Dwarf battalions (100 models + 2 cannons) for $200.

Plus, the $20k target is too high considering that it only costs them $2k to $5k to make a kit. I'd have set the goal at 10k to start, then at the 20k, 40k, and 60k marks, every $100+ backer gets a free metal dwarf hero from the existing range.

That's the kind of thing that might have made this work, but since they don't see it as fair to offer these kinds of incentives, then I'm not sure how this will pan out... I've never seen a successful kickstarter that didn't offer incentives for backers.

Having tracked down and read the post Alex is talking about - I'm a bit confused - I'd hardly run my own mini business so I guess Felix would know better than I.

But it seems like the main benefits from doing a kickstarter (or like) project are (even, if as he says you end up discounting the perks so much that you don't have much leftover to invest in the product you are kickstarting) mainly:

You get the money way in advance - Take the initial sum - get the first few Dwarf products out, which once released you can then sell normally and profit from to fund the later waves. (Some of which won't be out for months)

You gets loads of free press, and the chance to gain some new customers (who are attracted by the discounts/buzz).

He seemed to be banking on a lot of people snatching up the $4k and $5k tours.

I still think they will make the $20,000 though (he seems doubtful - which it would probably be better not for him to broadcast ). It's been inching up slowly and steadily the past few days at like $800 a day. And I still expect a later surge as the people who supported Mantic, et al get a chance to recover a bit financially.

I think a $5 or under "here take my money" pledge would be a good one too. Because even if I'm not tempted to sink a lot of money into the kickstarter perks, I wouldn't mind rounding off my paypal balance to the nearest 0 or 5 to help the cause a little.

scarletsquig wrote:Pricing is an issue too.

$190 for 100 dwarfs from AoW is pretty much exactly the same as buying 2 GW Dwarf battalions (100 models + 2 cannons) for $200.

Plus, the $20k target is too high considering that it only costs them $2k to $5k to make a kit. I'd have set the goal at 10k to start, then at the 20k, 40k, and 60k marks, every $100+ backer gets a free metal dwarf hero from the existing range.

That's the kind of thing that might have made this work, but since they don't see it as fair to offer these kinds of incentives, then I'm not sure how this will pan out... I've never seen a successful kickstarter that didn't offer incentives for backers.

Yet we don't see threads about the "evil AoW corporation and the prices" . I think that if the prices were a little lower and they had no problems with meeting orders the warriors of Apoc a lot more people would be putting in. That said has there been any news of just how many preorders and orders since have been taken and compared to % met along a timeline by AoW to see if it was simply because they were TOO popular?

Actually, the problem with Warcast is that they priced them too low, creating excessive demand.

I like the concept art for these dwarfs, but I'm not sure they'll fit in with current Dwarf army from Mantic - so I'll pass for the moment. Good luck to them anyway, as I have their plastic berserkers and think they are great.

Saxon wrote:Actually, the problem with Warcast is that they priced them too low, creating excessive demand.

I think it's more likely that the problem was that the demand was too front-loaded, not that there was too much. In hindsight, it may have been better to simply stop taking preorders any time the backlog was more than a month.

AlexHolker wrote:

Saxon wrote:Actually, the problem with Warcast is that they priced them too low, creating excessive demand.

I think it's more likely that the problem was that the demand was too front-loaded, not that there was too much. In hindsight, it may have been better to simply stop taking preorders any time the backlog was more than a month.

No, they cannot supply the goods at the current price - hence having to buy more machinery, therefore excessive demand. Economics isn't exactly rocket science - in hindsight they should have priced them higher!

Wasn't the original goal $50,000, or did I just imagine that?

At $20,000, I think they'll make it, and I'm glad because their dwarfs are beautiful!

I don't expect models of this caliber to cost less than GW. With companies like AoW and Raging Heroes, I'm actually willing to pay a hair MORE than GW prices in order to get fantastic quality figures from a smaller company.

The quality of their sculpts is WELL deserving of the price, imo. I just think they should've worked out their issues before doing this, but I still want them to succeed, and I think they will with the $20K goal.

Isnt Warcast pretty much resin anyways? 10 resin figures for $25 is on par with metals/resins or even cheaper in some cases

2 failcast models are more then $25,- and prices are still rising

RiTides wrote:Wasn't the original goal $50,000, or did I just imagine that?

No, I think it was always $20k.

RiTides wrote:The quality of their sculpts is WELL deserving of the price, imo.

Agreed. I think the sculpts are better than GW.

One problem I see with the concept art is all of the dwarves are standing at a right angle, very static. We don't know how the actual models are going to look; and if they look that static a lot of people are going to be disappointed. But AoW has a lot of experience and a good track record of making great, dynamic sculpts.

Plus, some people are trying to justify buying another fantasy army

biccat wrote:

Plus, some people are trying to justify buying another fantasy army

No doubt!

I love AoW's Dwarf sculpts to date, and would probably jump in and get a full Dwarf army IF they can somehow manage this launch a LOT better than their Chaos Warrior stuff.

But to date, that remains a big "IF".

RiTides wrote:Wasn't the original goal $50,000, or did I just imagine that?

It's both: the bare minimum goal is $20k, the "everything on our list goal is ~$57k.

Right now I would say it isn't looking good for them making it. I am surprised they have raised so little.

brettz123 wrote:Right now I would say it isn't looking good for them making it. I am surprised they have raised so little.

Ehh they still got a good chunk of a month left. I'm sure they'll make it. But still it isnt all that surprising imo that this seems quite....slow compared to others

Indiegogo is a tad lesser known compared to kickstarter (or from what I have seen anyways)
AoW is quite a smallish company, even compared to Mantic. Companies that primarily make single figures compared to army centric stuff usually are dime a dozen. Not saying AoW though isnt one of the best though.
There is a huge negative stigma with Warcast production, which may come off as AoW not knowing what they're doing
While they have great figures, it might not inspire many people to buy into a bunch of concept sketches with not real set deadlines in the near future

AoW has great sculpts.

There's no value for me to pledge money upfront for this not-KS as I'd be paying upfront for stuff that would take a year (or two, or three) to ship, and you don't even get anything special for pledging the higher amounts. McVey and Mantic are showing they really want/value our contributions.

With people still not having their Chaos Warriors that they paid for in Feb, I'll pass on this one. If the figures ever come out, and I still have any interest, I'll buy them from Maelstrom or Weyland.

kenshin620 wrote:

brettz123 wrote:Right now I would say it isn't looking good for them making it. I am surprised they have raised so little.

Ehh they still got a good chunk of a month left. I'm sure they'll make it. But still it isnt all that surprising imo that this seems quite....slow compared to others

Indiegogo is a tad lesser known compared to kickstarter (or from what I have seen anyways)
AoW is quite a smallish company, even compared to Mantic. Companies that primarily make single figures compared to army centric stuff usually are dime a dozen. Not saying AoW though isnt one of the best though.
There is a huge negative stigma with Warcast production, which may come off as AoW not knowing what they're doing
While they have great figures, it might not inspire many people to buy into a bunch of concept sketches with not real set deadlines in the near future

It might be worth mentioning that AoW have since invested in a 2nd warcast machine, a operater for the said machine and a fulltime moldmaker.
Also, those models marked as planned are already sculpted , though not yet released in order not to create more backlog on the WoC - the Woc simply had more sucses the AoW ever immagined

Anyway, only reason I have not yet pledged is I have yet to see how much I can afford

I just saw this and I love AOW minis more than Mantics....

orc master wrote:
It might be worth mentioning that AoW have since invested in a 2nd warcast machine, a operater for the said machine and a fulltime moldmaker.
Also, those models marked as planned are already sculpted , though not yet released in order not to create more backlog on the WoC - the Woc simply had more sucses the AoW ever immagined

No, those marked as "done" are already sculpted. Felix said the following about new greens

I am now in full Apoc season sculpting Apoc troops. The sculpting of dwarfs starts in July. The campaign will by then be over, so no greens will be shown during the campaign.

read the info on the indigo site again,

the ones marked as done are already for sale on his website and true retailers,

the ones planned are already sculpted, but not yet released,

and the ones with the Yeeeeah in front are the goals of the fundraiser that have been passed so far