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"abusing" skyleap? Lol. A model that costs that much better be ABUSING something or he's not worth the points.

I see all but the banshee's and hawks here.

Yeah the banshees and hawks are pretty much the odd men out.

Shining Spears kind of aren't awesome, but i don't recall if they are considered an "aspect" really. if they are, they are sort of like Rough Riders.

I quite like my banshees. They always out perform and with the wraithguard on the field they usually make it to the other side intact.

I've had some success with the shining spears, they are quite effective at killing MSU marines after you pop their transport, often wiping them out. Although I prefer to charge larger squads so they don't wipe them out and I can hide in combat for their shooting phase and hit and run out. WS4, T4 and 3+ armor means they have a good chance of surviving the round where they don't have power weapons as long as you avoid a unit with PW's, which isn't hard as you will almost always get to choose their fights.

Banshees are a whole lot better than striking Scoripons, as long as you don't use them aggressively.

Their purpose in life is to form a DON'T GO NEAR ME bubble around a pack of wave serpents, then when something annoying comes inside that bubble (like FnP Assault Marines with 2 meltas) the Banshees can hop out and engage them.

You can charge them from a Wave Serpent provided that they disembark before the serpent has moved at all, and this further emphasizes their purpose as a deterrent. I've played a lot of games where having a squad of banshees to punish over zealous opponents is amazing.

Nobody will argue that they are as good as fire dragons, but they are definitely better than other aspect warriors!

The thing is, Banshees can actually engage enemy close combat units. Scorpions will get their green butts handed to them by Grey Knights (I6 power weapons), Genestealers (I6, Rending, maybe FnP) Wytches (I6, probably FnP) Blood Angels (3+, probably FnP), you get the idea. Scorpions only come into their own against Ork Hordes or Blob Guard, otherwise they are relegated to trying to go after backfield objective holders and fire support. Banshees can at least hold their own against the aforementioned melee threats.

akaean, i understand your point, but as the eldar players around here point out, fire dragons fill the role that you described for banshees quite well and can do other things like deal with vehicles. They also auto kill multi-wound t4's like nobs and palidins. banshees suffer the same fate as many other units in this game. They are good at something, yes, however, someone else in the same army is potentially better and can do another thing as well.

I formerly went Banshee heavy in my Eldar. But pretty much to get them there I had to flat out the Serpants across the board. If the opponent did not deal with them, usually the banshee could step out, fleet, assault a doomed target. That was usually enough.

Problem with that, your dedicating a whole lot of points to kill usually 1 squad, and then the Banshee's tend to evaporate if they are caught out in the open or even if they are in terrain as they are T3.

Eldar were very effective in 4th due to the terrain rules, and target priority rules. Where often you could fleet them throuhg terrain, or get creative to use forrests to block LOS while setting up a next turn assault / counter assault. That all went way with true line of sight. Unfortunately the Codex just has not caught up and needs to be re-vamped.

My take on Aspect Warriors:

DA: Good, solid unit. Overcosted a bit, but so is everything in Eldar troops. They are actually surprisingly effective, especially against horde armies.

FD: Excellent unit, must include in any list.

HB: A rather poor unit. They sorta work in either foot or mech lists, but not very well in either one. They do really, really well against new players, but more experienced players will destroy their transport and wipe them out before they can do anything. And, staying out of their assault range is too easy.

Scorps: Another poor unit. They work really well in foot lists, but have no place at all in mech lists. They aren't a great unit, but their psychological effect is pretty good.

Spears: A terrible, terrible unit. Incredibly overcosted and worthless.

SH: A terrible unit. They can be really great if you're against a foot army with low armor saves and no long range weaponry. But, that's basically just a silly Ork army of all slugga boyz.

WS: A pretty good unit. They're not great, but I think they may be the best unit in FA. (Mainly because Eldar FA is absolute rubbish.) I include them in games of 2000+ points.

DR: They were amazing. Then, the rules and the meta changed. Now, they're pretty worthless and cost twice what they're worth. They can work in a foot list, and are absolutely amazing against a foot MEQ army. But, those are really rare, apart from fluff armies or newbie forces. Against more competitive armies, they're absolute garbage.

Aside from DA and FDs, here's a list, in descending usage, of the other aspects I use and why.

Dark Reapers - They may be expensive, but my God, if you come up against MEQs, they're certainly worth it! Fire Dragons may be the experts at taking out Tanks n Termies, but for taking out regular MEQs, the Dark Reapers are the best. In one round of shooting they can obliterate most or whole tactical squads, and from a safe distance too. A luxury that Fire Dragons do not have

Howling Banshees - I do like these guys too, especially, again, if I know there's a high chance of me facing MEQs (there's a lot of them at my FLGS). Their only disadvantage is a lack of Assault Transports and the fact that they require Doom Support to be most effective. With the right conditions though, they are really good. They have some great aspect powers that are cheap as chips and an Exarch with Executioner can easily fell two or three opponents on her own. Then there's the other 9 in the squad.

Striking Scoprions - Sadly, these guys rarely make it onto my lists, for two main reasons: One, no fleet. Two, they're anti-infantry, and DAs are excellent anti-infantry already. One nice Niche they have though is popping up near a tank and destroying it with the Exarch's Claw. So, while they decimate Orks, Guard and other light infantry, for the reasons listed (and the fact there are more MEQs at my FLGS) they normally get left at home

Warp Spiders - These guys are cool. They're quick and they have powerful shooting, although you've got to make sure whatever you're shooting at has a fairly bad armour save. People underestimate their ability to pop light transports, I often use them for this, when I field them. They're fun to use and, as such, I make sure to take a unit if I'm playing a big game, but thanks to their high cost for the relatively little they bring, they're not the best choice.

As for Hawks and Spears. Well, the less said about them the better.

I've never played a list that didn't include banshees and reapers. It just never happens: They're just too good vs. marines. The banshees need a wave serpent, but that's barely an issue.

I believe the problem doesn't lie in the units themselves, but rather with the changing objective of the game.

Most 5th ed. armies rely on a static core of reliable, solid "always take" units, generally occupying troop or elite slots (and generally hidden in a box).

Eldar, being specialists, struggle with this. It's all about the list composition.
5th ed. has seen the (5th ed.) strategists move toward what is most points effective for the current game dynamic (OBVIOUSLY), with little consideration for the overall army picture. (I'm talking FD and DA here)

There is still much unstated territory on this forum in regard to unit synergies:

I personally enjoy the wraithguard troop / hawk / harlequin combination.

Enemy mech is scared silly of the wall of slow moving WG heading their way; but don't get much of a chance to unload due to harlequins blocking LOS. Meanwhile SH drop templates and menace tanks / ordnance (What, they just blew up a land raider? the internet told me they were the worst unit in the game!). This is of course facilitated by the 5th ed opponent who is used to eldar = 5 wave serpents with FD and DA, and is now struggling to find target priority.


My favourite is taking three squads of 7+ SH, and a number of Pathfinder squads; sitting pretty and making a mockery of gunline IG.

Discuss...

Praxiss wrote:So why dont more people take them? Are they really expensive or something? i suppose they are like Khorne Berzerkers - great on the charge but if they get caught in the open....fail.

Fortuned banshees striking at a doomed target are extremely effective. You can expect them to destroy most MEQ squads.

The problem is price. In order to do that you need the force multiplier of Eldrad in addition to the banshee squad.
You also have an oppertunity cost of not bringing a squad of fire dragons by taking the banshees.

If there was some way to get all aspect warriors moved to troop choices, I think you would see more banshees.

Yes, actually.

Striking Scorpions are my favorite CC unit in the Codex since they can get into combat faster and take fire better than either Harlequins or Howling Banshees for a similar price; Dark Reapers put out a sick (and I mean SICK) amount of fire if you're facing MEQ lists (approximately 5 MEQ kills per turn of shooting on average from 4 Dark Reapers and an Exarch with a missile launcher and Crack Shot may not look like much, but against the more expensive enemies it is marvelous).

None of the Fast Attack units are worth much, though (if you're facing a lot of fliers a Swooping Hawk suicide unit or two may be considered), and Howling Banshees suffer from lack of durability/ways to get into close combat fast. For practical purposes, Aspect Warriors can be divided into four tiers:

Competitive: These units are practical, versatile, powerful, and good at what they do: Fire Dragons, Dire Avengers.

Playable: Not top-tier, but these units can hold their own and even win friendly games: Striking Scorpions, Dark Reapers.

Mediocre: Highly situational, technically playable if you get them into the right situation against the right army: Swooping Hawks, Howling Banshees.

Unplayable: So specialized the situation they're tasked with handling barely appears at all, or horribly overpriced for what they can do: Shining Spears, Warp Spiders.

Scorpions are great.

Spiders for str 6 spam and Harlies for veil of tear/rending, Scorps for str 4 and Banshees for silly PW charges, and WG for fortune and laugh while you try and kill me fun All ofcourse only fit in footdar though, or as a viable counter charge troop support for objectives. None of them usually ever gain their points back with maybe the exception of Harlies but are fun to run.

Personally, my standard list is:

Eldrad
Maugan Ra
6-7 'locks in scatter serpent
5 dragons in EML serpent
5 wraithguard in EML serpent
10 avengers
2x10 guardians with scatters
3 walkers with shuricannons
reapers
8 warp spiders.


Most of the eldar 'net' list say this should be terrible, as I lack enough transports, i use overpriced units etc, yet I win almost EVERY game.

I grew up with the craftworld codex (how i miss ) and I love aspect warriors, and wraith guard.

Anyone who says wraithguard, or spiders, or reapers are crap should come play me, I'll show em why my friends and all younger people at my FLGS think Eldar are one of the most OP armies


Von Chogg

Looks potent to me. I play a lot of FootDar so I know how good it can be without the Serpents. Serpents areserious points syncs so unless you MUST have the mobility... My list suffers from no such defficiency.

I use this combination:

3 units warp spiders
2 units Reapers
Triple D-Cannon unit
4 Jetbike Squadrons
Guardian squad (Lance)
Scorpions
Autarch
Farseer

I've often thought of using D-cannons, how effective are they as an anti tank? My wraithguard always fail me

I just love when you don't use a traditional 'net' list, and everyone is like 'wtf are those? S6 guns! 2 shots?! ASSAULT WEAPONS!!! OP!!!' talking about warp spiders there.

The whole 'I'm only losing cause eldar are the most OP army' annoys me though. I've played eldar for nearing 9 years, and it's taken me this long to master my army, and when I first started I lost all the time. Just because I beat your list the internet says will rock doesn't mean I'm OP /rant.

But I do agree that serpents are a point sink. I love my serpents, but when I pay 130 pts for relatively low dmg output, I only take em where essential. In fact, I'm looking to get more guard and run em as a troop option as my list slowly becomes more and more footdar. But I do love my 'indestructible' serpents... haha

Von Chogg

Von Chogg wrote:I've often thought of using D-cannons, how effective are they as an anti tank? My wraithguard always fail me

I just love when you don't use a traditional 'net' list, and everyone is like 'wtf are those? S6 guns! 2 shots?! ASSAULT WEAPONS!!! OP!!!' talking about warp spiders there.

The whole 'I'm only losing cause eldar are the most OP army' annoys me though. I've played eldar for nearing 9 years, and it's taken me this long to master my army, and when I first started I lost all the time. Just because I beat your list the internet says will rock doesn't mean I'm OP /rant.

But I do agree that serpents are a point sink. I love my serpents, but when I pay 130 pts for relatively low dmg output, I only take em where essential. In fact, I'm looking to get more guard and run em as a troop option as my list slowly becomes more and more footdar. But I do love my 'indestructible' serpents... haha

Von Chogg

All of these points I agree with.

I have only ever proxied D-cannons.
Along with much of the eldar HS slots, d-cannons won't necessarily make their points back in damage (who is going to be silly enough to drive a land raider within range), but they will usually do one of two things:
1. secure a quarter for you ("I aint' goin near dat!")
OR
2. "I'm going to send a dedicated assault unit at them and waste two turns+" / "I'm going to shoot everything I can at them"

Meaning everything else has a bit of reprieve to set up as planned.



On a side note; I had always wanted to deploy 3+ shadow-weavers, but then Gw went and released mainstream rules for the Night-spinner.
Does anyone have any feedback in relation to pros/cons of night-spinner vs 3 shadow-weavers?

the Triple D-Cannons are a close defense weapons. They are there to keep your Reapers, Guardians and objectives safe from incursion. Those cannons are mega scary in what they can do. Ask any multiwound modl like a Thunderwolf cavalry unit, how excited it is to get anywhere near that thing. It's also at least affordable and for a "9 model" unit to be able to pump out what is better than any plasma cannon unit for 150 points... Hey. Hard to beat.

Honestly, I had never tried them either until I looked at playing an ALL Guardian list. I did it for a while after someone essentuially dared me to.

As you'd expect I won a lot with it. But the D-Cannon really caught my eye during those games. It was the perfect close defense unit. I therefore incorporated it into this Spider army.

I am doing a rather long blog on the subject of army CORE'S and when it's done I'll post it. But many armies benefit from a close defense unit. My Tau have also incorporated this idea and its turned what is a hopeless list (and I mean that, it was built intentionally to get a 1, on a 1-3 scale, for a tournament I am attending in August called TSHFT) into an army that has a shot at winning once in a while.

No pros and cons... but some testimony.. The Night Spinner is great! Now it hasn't won me any battles on it's own, but being able to lay down terrain is incredible. Slowing down enemy units, setting traps - this vehicle is a great great tool, if your list is built to synergize with it. Plus it's twin-linked!!! sweet. lol

I know nothing about the Shadow Weavers as I have been playing Eldar for 15 years or so, but never got into the FW stuff.

Jancoran wrote:the Triple D-Cannons are a close defense weapons. They are there to keep your Reapers, Guardians and objectives safe from incursion. Those cannons are mega scary in what they can do. Ask any multiwound modl like a Thunderwolf cavalry unit, how excited it is to get anywhere near that thing. It's also at least affordable and for a "9 model" unit to be able to pump out what is better than any plasma cannon for 150 points... Hey. Hard to beat.

Honestly, I had never tried them either until I looked at playing an ALL Guardian list. I did it for a while after someone essentuially dared me to.

As you'd expect I won a lot with it. But the D-Cannon really caught my eye during those games. It was the perfect close defense unit. I therefore incorporated it into this Spider army.

I am doing a rather long blog on the subject of army CORE'S and when it's done I'll post it. But many armies benefit from a close defense unit. My Tau have also incorporated this idea and its turned what is a hopeless list (and I mean that, it was built intentionally to get a 1, on a 1-3 scale, for a tournament I am attending in August called TSHFT) into an army that has a shot at winning once in a while.

Sweet, please do. I'll add any commentary I can when ya do And probably learn a lot too haha.

I think I may try out some d-cannons... could be fun!


Von Chogg