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Considering i was able to take down Tact termies pretty hard. To take down 7 with lysander.
It took sternguard(torn through) A plasma cannon, to widdle them down to where my razorback command squad could kill them on the charge. even got my captain to run away(he regruoped and cam back and punched the final termie dead)
It took me 4 turns and double the points them take them out

You want to talk about unused Space Marine units and no one mentioned Whirlwinds? Seriously when was the last time you saw one?

In my area there is a Dark Angels player who uses 2 of them and he is the only guy I know of who even owns one lol

Ridealgh wrote:The only reason i see techmarines as useful is in defensive style anti hoard battles. They fortify your positions and can take HB servitors and are only 50 points. To me though, that's their only use

Techmarine on a bike - servoharness gives 2 powerfist attacks, flamer and plasma pistol. They can also bolster defences for say sniper scout squad. You can also split them off if needed to go kill a vehicle etc.

IMHO, the main problem with Tactical Termies is that the ordinary guy doesn't really dish out much ranged damage for 40pts. Cyclones and Assault Cannons are good, but I feel the rest of the unit should ideally be able to contribute too.

I agree with the calls that the Vindicator is actually a pretty good unit. In my Wolves, I like to run 2 Vindi's alongside a Land Raider; creating 3 imposing targets that all draw the opponents attention.

Scout bikers. Can't think of the last time I have seen them fielded at all.

My Vindi tends to draw fire alot. But it draws fire from my other heavy hitters which are more scary. Like conversion beamer and dreads.

Devs with Multi-melta x2 in a Rhino are a fairly cheap way to get some 24" melta shots in a Vulkan list.

Move forward and pop smoke on Turn 1. Two twin-linked shots with decent range on Turn 2... and one of them is BS 5.

Reivax26 wrote:You want to talk about unused Space Marine units and no one mentioned Whirlwinds? Seriously when was the last time you saw one?

In my area there is a Dark Angels player who uses 2 of them and he is the only guy I know of who even owns one lol

What's a whirlwind?

Seriously I own 2 whirlwinds (3rd ed models) and.... well let's just say they get on the tabletop very rarely...

On the topic of scout bikers, I've never used/faced any or seen them in batreps

Everything can be used well, it just requires thought

Ie pod in tacs w fist, librarian, tech w pw and plasma pistol and servo. Lots points but hard to shift. Throw in mm, vehicle curse on libby and even raiders are denied passage and will have to assault. Put locator on the pod and in the squad and gate your army in.

Assault marines are good. TH and 2 pp, throw in a hq,mand it needs a deathstar to beat it. Solid contributors even in competitive play, ignore them and they will rip up your firesupport in no time.

TFC best described as a glass hammer. That much firepower, for 100 points, amazing. I avoid because just too fragile, however if it boosts devs w 4 plasma cannons, that is a mighty firebase.

Agree comments above tac terms. Looking forward to using these guys and vanguard next tourney.

Loricatus Aurora wrote:Everything can be used well...

I just cannot agree to this completely since Aun'o'T'au'Acaya'Va'Denta was invented, he cannot be used well, it's just impossible.

Ie pod in tacs w fist, librarian, tech w pw and plasma pistol and servo. Lots points but hard to shift. Throw in mm, vehicle curse on libby and even raiders are denied passage and will have to assault. Put locator on the pod and in the squad and gate your army in

I'm not sure what this means but wouldn't that be around 500 points in a single pod? It just seems like a fragile suicide to throw these in the enemy's face, bun YMMV...

Assault marines are good.TH and 2 pp, throw in a hq,mand it needs a deathstar to beat it. Solid contributors even in competitive play, ignore them and they will rip up your firesupport in no time.

Wouldn't this still cost around 400 points? I mean... it's still only dudes without a transport with just a 3+, to me it seems too fragile.

Just my thoughts...

I used my whirlwind as a razorback now

Loricatus Aurora wrote:Everything can be used well, it just requires thought

Seriously, this is not orks. Some units are a waste of points and do not pull their weight.

Scout bikers are wonderful. Equip them well and you can have all sorts of fun, bit like a non scoring scouts in a storm but for 1 kill point.
They can charge first turn with either meltabombs or powerfist and all the other wonderful stuff of infiltrate and scouts.
Having infiltrate and scouts is actually useful, you can decide late which side to attack, or indeed actually get behind the enemy. You need to remember to turbo in the scout move for the cover save, which is small problem but really happens.
Shooting they are pretty handy with a range of weapons, st6 grenades for light armour turns out to be useful.
Remember they are a cheap space marine bike but with worse save, but then you have turbo cover saves.

Yeah, i'm planning a White Scars list, and one of the lists i came up with uses 2 10man Assault Squads.

They are to stick with the speed i guess, but the idea is that they run behind the Rhinos who will pop smoke.
Also have Vanguard Vets in that list.

Tested Whirlwinds a few times. They suck

Enormous and mfletch

Im locked in for taking fully kitted up legion of the damned, tactical termies, vanguard and scout bikes to 1750 tourney in late july.

Lots of points but again, lots thinking behind it.

Pod with tacs comes down. Has melta and locator. Scout bikes have second locator. I have vanguard, legion and libby w terms with two entry points in opponents face.

Does the list have weaknesses? Absolutely! Will it be fun to play with, and against? I think so.

Will write it up but its a month away.

Whirlwinds could be useful against certain armies its just that so many armies go Mechanized right now that it doesn't really shine. Hopefully 6th will fix this.

For what you pay for it, Whirlwinds are actually quite a bargain honestly. You pay 85 Points for something that can sit behind a building and rain down large blast templates without having to risk being exposed.

I have often wondered why Chaos never got them in any of their dexes.

Tournament on weekend was 1750 and i came away first place. Took fully kitted out legion of damned, vanguard vets, scout bikes and tactical terminators.

Will put the batreps up on dakka as soon as i find time however the list was brilliant. Scouts with locator mean terms can gate in first turn. Then in come vamguard vets and legion, all no scatter. Great fun and, now proven, very effective!

A well placed thunderfire cannon is deadly. The range is hilariously long and it takes out infantry effectively (in my experience). I use one quite a lot. And a free techmarine with bolster defences ain't bad. He also has the full servo-harness so if the cannon get's destroyed he is still quite nice to have around.

The techmarines are in my opinnion much better now in 6th. The 2+ save makes them quite survivable and slack one inside a transport to keep fixing the damn thing or what I've tried a couple of times is give him three servitors (two with guns) and deploy him with a predator. Choose the guns for the servitors as you wish but it is a small heavy weapon squad and the techmarine can keep fixing the predator as required.

Master of the forge could pull that off too and have a conversion beamer for more firepower... and he enables you to field a ridicilous amount of dreadnoughts... Master of the forge with double FOC might be interesting.

When I used to play codex marines, I'd field my jump librarian HQ with a squad of assault marines, rocking 2x flamers.

The librarian would take avenger / null zone, and follow my land raider full of terminators.

They could flame meq squads and then kill them in the charge, or they could just hit weaker units while the terminators hit the harder ones. If the enemy had a REALLY hard unit, librarian could use null zone, to support the terminators charge.

They worked pretty well.

gaovinni wrote:A well placed thunderfire cannon is deadly. The range is hilariously long and it takes out infantry effectively (in my experience). I use one quite a lot. And a free techmarine with bolster defences ain't bad. He also has the full servo-harness so if the cannon get's destroyed he is still quite nice to have around.

The techmarines are in my opinnion much better now in 6th. The 2+ save makes them quite survivable and slack one inside a transport to keep fixing the damn thing or what I've tried a couple of times is give him three servitors (two with guns) and deploy him with a predator. Choose the guns for the servitors as you wish but it is a small heavy weapon squad and the techmarine can keep fixing the predator as required.

Master of the forge could pull that off too and have a conversion beamer for more firepower... and he enables you to field a ridicilous amount of dreadnoughts... Master of the forge with double FOC might be interesting.

Techmarines are awesome, if you have the elite slots to spare. Most marine players want their terminators, sternguard, and dreadnaughts. They might see more use as dreads become less useful.

On the other hand, dreads becoming less useful means that master of the forge and his 6-12 dreadnaughts isnt so useful.

Exergy wrote:

gaovinni wrote:A well placed thunderfire cannon is deadly. The range is hilariously long and it takes out infantry effectively (in my experience). I use one quite a lot. And a free techmarine with bolster defences ain't bad. He also has the full servo-harness so if the cannon get's destroyed he is still quite nice to have around.

The techmarines are in my opinnion much better now in 6th. The 2+ save makes them quite survivable and slack one inside a transport to keep fixing the damn thing or what I've tried a couple of times is give him three servitors (two with guns) and deploy him with a predator. Choose the guns for the servitors as you wish but it is a small heavy weapon squad and the techmarine can keep fixing the predator as required.

Master of the forge could pull that off too and have a conversion beamer for more firepower... and he enables you to field a ridicilous amount of dreadnoughts... Master of the forge with double FOC might be interesting.

Techmarines are awesome, if you have the elite slots to spare. Most marine players want their terminators, sternguard, and dreadnaughts. They might see more use as dreads become less useful.

On the other hand, dreads becoming less useful means that master of the forge and his 6-12 dreadnaughts isnt so useful.

Well in my lists there is always a place for techmarines of some sort.

Scout bikers were pretty killy in the old edition when you could move them up with scout, and potentially have a combi-melta shot followed by a charge with krak grenades and meltabombs that auto hit on turn one. Now with the changes to the rules, i am not sure its a good use for a fast attack slot (my favorite slots in the army).

sennacherib wrote:Scout bikers were pretty killy in the old edition when you could move them up with scout, and potentially have a combi-melta shot followed by a charge with krak grenades and meltabombs that auto hit on turn one. Now with the changes to the rules, i am not sure its a good use for a fast attack slot (my favorite slots in the army).

Oh they can still be very killy. Those grenade launchers have served me well. Taking out light vehicles or pulling off deadly rear armor hits with their speed has been fun. Yeah they die fast but I tend to do quite much damage with them before that. Also the cluster mines can be devastating depending on what stumbles across them.

Reivax26 wrote:You want to talk about unused Space Marine units and no one mentioned Whirlwinds? Seriously when was the last time you saw one?

In my area there is a Dark Angels player who uses 2 of them and he is the only guy I know of who even owns one lol

The problem i seem to have with whirlwinds is that while they make good support units, they get destroyed by any sort of heavy weapons out there, especially in 6th where they are fairly easy to glance to death.

I tend not to use the the techmarines. while they are a fairly balanced unit, they are 100 points or more on 1 model, more if i want the servo harness. i could spend 25 more points and get a unit of 5 sterngaurd, or only 20 more and get 2 dakka preds.

DarthDiggler wrote:In my huge amount of experience, 2 Ard Boyz semi-final first places, Adepticon Gladiator champion and Team Tourney Champion, I will have to say the Thunderfire Cannon is one of the top choices in the Marine Codex.

I agree with Darth 100%. My TFC has always performed well. The long range negates a lot of its fragility (and 6 ED gives the TFC a major survivability boost by making it T7, W2, 3+ SV) and ST6, heavy 4 blast tends to put a ton of wounds on MEQs. Lots of wounds = lots of saves.

In 6th edition he TFC has gotten more valuable. It is an excellent counter to the Aegis Defense Line now by denying cover saves from it.

I am surprised that the discussion is still on the first page after (almost) 2 months.

On topic:
I wholly agree thunderfires are awesome, I'd buy them if the model wasn't so hideously expensive.

At 2000pts you can have 6 TFC... awesome. LOTD are an odd bunch. 3++ is cool but a group of shoota boys can still get past the 3+. If LOTD had FNP then that would be better, but then they are like the death company. If they had 2 wounds that would be cool, but then they are like paladins.

Keep them cheap and give them a MM, melta, and a combi-M, and a PF. About 240pts i think

Main thing is that with allies it is quite possible to make most of those units fit into different slots, thereby making a lot of their weaknesses go away.

Tactical terminators, make them fearless and be able to change their kitout by taking dark angels as allies

Assault marines. Take blood angels allies so that they are now troops and can take melta guns(was so pissed when I found out that regular marines cant get assault meltaguns)

Same goes the other way. Want troop bikes in a blood angels list, bring a biker captain.

I like it because it allows you to effectively build whatever chapter you want by combining all of the books together(except DA and SW, they hate each other)

Leth wrote:Main thing is that with allies it is quite possible to make most of those units fit into different slots, thereby making a lot of their weaknesses go away.

Tactical terminators, make them fearless and be able to change their kitout by taking dark angels as allies

Assault marines. Take blood angels allies so that they are now troops and can take melta guns(was so pissed when I found out that regular marines cant get assault meltaguns)

Same goes the other way. Want troop bikes in a blood angels list, bring a biker captain.

I like it because it allows you to effectively build whatever chapter you want by combining all of the books together(except DA and SW, they hate each other)

You evil evil thing. Now you gave me more ideas than I already had. My wallet hates you now.

I run Ironclads all the time, mostly in Drop Pods.