wuestenfux wrote:In fact, vehicles with weak rear armor are very vulnerable to charging units as described by DaddyWarCrimes.

On the other hand, look at BA, if you take a wall of Predators, like 3 auto/las type and 3 Baals, you have a decent shooting force. Indeed, while in the 5th edition silencing guns via glancing hits worked very well, this will not longer work in the new edition. These tanks will fire like hell until you are able to take them down.

Doomhunter wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:In fact, vehicles with weak rear armor are very vulnerable to charging units as described by DaddyWarCrimes.

On the other hand, look at BA, if you take a wall of Predators, like 3 auto/las type and 3 Baals, you have a decent shooting force. Indeed, while in the 5th edition silencing guns via glancing hits worked very well, this will not longer work in the new edition. These tanks will fire like hell until you are able to take them down.

^ This.
Vehicles in 6th: Eazy to kill, Hard to stop

Lord Harrab wrote:The storm raven seems like an ideal counter to other races flyers, just have it gain skyfire for a turn and start gunning them down with multi-meltas and assault cannons hitting at normal BS

wuestenfux wrote:

Doomhunter wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:In fact, vehicles with weak rear armor are very vulnerable to charging units as described by DaddyWarCrimes.

On the other hand, look at BA, if you take a wall of Predators, like 3 auto/las type and 3 Baals, you have a decent shooting force. Indeed, while in the 5th edition silencing guns via glancing hits worked very well, this will not longer work in the new edition. These tanks will fire like hell until you are able to take them down.

^ This.
Vehicles in 6th: Eazy to kill, Hard to stop

So don't let the enemy charge your vehicles!
This should be manageable if you run a shooty gunline like a bunch of Predators. Deploy some Hammernators in front and the enemy will think twice if moving closer to your front ranks.

wuestenfux wrote:

Lord Harrab wrote:The storm raven seems like an ideal counter to other races flyers, just have it gain skyfire for a turn and start gunning them down with multi-meltas and assault cannons hitting at normal BS

The same goes in the other direction. Flyers with AV 12 (or less) are not hard to take down by multi-shot units. Frankly, I wouldn't heavily rely on a flyer. However, it will give the army a bit more flexibility.

Crazyterran wrote:Vehicle Squadrons will still be terrible for AV10 things, since, one round of shooting at them generally lead to 3 or 4 glances. Instead of one blowing up, you have two blowing up!

Drinkgasoline wrote:Thoughts on Land Raiders?

Smitty0305 wrote:It depends if people continue to bring anti tank options in 6th.

Smitty0305 wrote:It depends if people continue to bring anti tank options in 6th.

1) If I have a Land Raider that is 18.1″ away from you, which I can now know because I can premeasure, you cannot melta me from standard transports. 6+6+6=18.

2) Terminators can potentially assault 24″ away. 6+6+12.

3) Vehicles now are always hit on 3+ by everything, and if you don’t move, are autohit. Attacks are still resolved on rear armor. So Land Raiders laugh at most everything, where most vehicles do not like being attacked by Terminators.

4) Multi-charging costs you attacks, but 5 Terminators + 1 character can still multi-charge 2 Rhinos and destroy them both. The net effect of this rule is to allow you to intentionally pull your punches by costing yourself your bonus attack for charging and splitting your attacks. Since vehicles are tougher they can absorb more blows before dying. If you don’t explode them (very unlikely with CC attacks as there are no modifiers for 99% of them) they just wreck.

5) Wrecks are dangerous terrain, and very common when fighting a CC oriented army. This provides additional protection against shooting and enemy units that wish to charge you.

6) Marines don’t die when swept, they stand around. No more fearless wounds, you just suck it up and are stuck in CC.

7) Characters cannot be picked out (technically not true, they can be). Namely you don’t allocate attacks solely against character units anymore. Backed up by Terminators, characters can shred face (see Precision attacks) and stop powerfist sarges from hurting them.

8) Land raiders take 4 hits to destroy. Will a meltagun take one out? Or a lucky lascannon? Yes, quite possible. But a Land Raider should always have 5+ cover. Combined together it’s quite difficult to just roll a Land Raider at range, and as noted in 1, above, you can’t meltagun a Land Raider before Terminators de-box your melta teams.

9) Land raiders, specifically LRC, can shred enemy infantry sitting at 12″ while still disembarking Terminators out the forward hatch. While the firepower isn’t bad or anything, the real bonus is the front hatch. You literally can go 6+6. Most other rides can’t do that because they don’t have front hatches.

10) Overwatch is fairly meaningless unless it’s a huge squad or has twin-linking. For example, Ork mobs with shootas do hurt, so you drive a Rhino beside your Terminators and block most of the enemies Overwatch shots while giving your Land Raider a cover save.

11) Flyers arrive turn 2. So all of your Vendetta spamming achieves nothing when 8 Terminators manhandle your parking lot.

12) Also note that in CC, most power weapons do nothing to you. Relying on your 2+ against just about everyone is very nice indeed. If you get into CC and can stay locked till your turn ends, you’ll have a potential 24″ threat range. If you’re in the middle of the board, that’s 48″. In other words, you can’t ignore Terminators.

13) There is one con. Terminators can’t sweep. If someone breaks, they will always get away. Combine with being able to rally even if you are standing next to the enemy, means if you are stupid with your charges you will end up getting shot to death after one assault phase.

In other words….

Land Raiders are back.

Crazyterran wrote:Vehicle Squadrons will still be terrible for AV10 things, since, one round of shooting at them generally lead to 3 or 4 glances. Instead of one blowing up, you have two blowing up!

labmouse42 wrote:

Crazyterran wrote:Vehicle Squadrons will still be terrible for AV10 things, since, one round of shooting at them generally lead to 3 or 4 glances. Instead of one blowing up, you have two blowing up!

Read the rules for squadrens carefully.
d
You need to destroy the first vehicle in the squadren before going on to the next. Its not like 5th edition where you allocated a bunch of hits around the squadren and then rolled the effects.

In this version you have to destroy that first AV 10 vehicle before moving onto the ones behind it.

Squadres, especially squadrens of tough vehicles like LRBTs, got a lot tougher.

GoDz BuZzSaW wrote:I don't want to be buying lots of terrain, as money is an obstacle to me, i might buy a bastion off my friend to use but I dunno, I'm not a fan of buying Terrain or using allies, I want my army to be a proper force of men!

jmurph wrote:

GoDz BuZzSaW wrote:I don't want to be buying lots of terrain, as money is an obstacle to me, i might buy a bastion off my friend to use but I dunno, I'm not a fan of buying Terrain or using allies, I want my army to be a proper force of men!

Build your terrain. You are only going to use the Aegis line or the Bastion. The Aegis isn't terribly expensive, but not hard to make wall sections out of cardstock or plasticard anyway. A bastion is just a big boxy building. Pretty easy to make one.

meneroth2 wrote:Anti tank weapons wont go away, since those are the weapons that also deal with terminators. Considering the ratio of played armies to the ones that can take termies your pretty much forced to take some anti terminator firepower to deal with them. It just so happens that anti terminator fire also happens to be anti vehicle firepower, so its unlikely that those guns are going away.

Rhinos are still good, maybe even better. how many glancing hits disabled a rhino back in the day? it only took one to stop the thing for a turn, which is really what you want to do to transports anyway. now they can move further and glancing hits dont really mean anything until you get a couple on each vehicle. for 35 points it still seems like a steal for a transport option.

Farseer Mael Dannan wrote:

meneroth2 wrote:Anti tank weapons wont go away, since those are the weapons that also deal with terminators. Considering the ratio of played armies to the ones that can take termies your pretty much forced to take some anti terminator firepower to deal with them. It just so happens that anti terminator fire also happens to be anti vehicle firepower, so its unlikely that those guns are going away.

Rhinos are still good, maybe even better. how many glancing hits disabled a rhino back in the day? it only took one to stop the thing for a turn, which is really what you want to do to transports anyway. now they can move further and glancing hits dont really mean anything until you get a couple on each vehicle. for 35 points it still seems like a steal for a transport option.

Rhinos are only better if you are a shooting army. Now that you can't assault out of a vehicle even if it hasn't moved yet, Rhinos took a huge hit to armies like BA/BT. We have to move the Rhino 6", get the Infantry out and move 5.5", Than flat out the Rhino in the shooting phase to be in front of the infantry as a shield. That is the only way to ensure that you can assault next turn, while going as far as possible and still be semi "covered". Even this allows you to be shot up in that turn, so no more just "standing still and getting out to assault" even if you drive right up next to them Turn 1.