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Vepr wrote:Flying MCs are actually not as tough as people think. You only have to hit them (not wound them) to give them a 33% change of crashing to the ground and taking a str 9 no armor save hit. Once they are on the ground your other units shoot them as normal.

As far as fortifications go I would not have a problem with someone bringing them but they could be a little depressing to certain army builds.

Well, Flying Daemon Princes are badness. Even if you hit them and 'crash' they get an invul on that Str 9 hit.

OMG TFG

Don't play against him if he's going to be that way. Seriously.

Vepr wrote:Flying MCs are actually not as tough as people think. You only have to hit them (not wound them) to give them a 33% change of crashing to the ground and taking a str 9 no armor save hit. Once they are on the ground your other units shoot them as normal.

Are you sure about this? The rules for grounding tests give the following consequences:

1. STR9 auto hit, no armor save.
2. Loses the Jink rule
3. Can be assaulted in the following assault phase.

Nowhere is it stated that you need anything other than a 6 to hit.

Goldshield wrote:
Honestly, I think one of the reasons people don't like these things is because they don't have them and are not willing to drop more money to GW. And because they don't have them, they immediately seem to think that you are getting an advantage over them. Also some people are so set with how their army is built that they are not looking to be more flexible with other options like allies.

It's more like TSRs Spellfire collecting card game. They kept on issuing expansion card sets for it, and if you weren't capable of giving them more money to get the sets with the newest abilities you were permanently screwed. Next time someone brings three Doom Scythes to a game I'll pack up my models and go home. Those things were wiping out 2 or even 3 units per firing of their Death Ray, and that was on the turn they arrived. Having nothing with AA capability just makes the game no enjoyment at all vs the sickest flyers you can find. If I hadn't promised to drive my co-player (was a 2vs2 game) home I'd have left before deployment.

Tell him

Heavy support are optional

We both need to agree that Heavy Support will be used this match, or else no one can

To me the play by the full rules or it's not 40k, it's some other game. House rules are for filling gaps not for saying "I don't like that rule". If you play with friends do what the hell you want, but don't try and force things outside the rules on people.

the probem is see is that a fortress filt with orks is gone have BS 2 one filt with ratlings is gone have BS 5

Stuff those grots into it, they are BS3

i know it was a example but dont have any other codexes

Talamare wrote:Tell him

Heavy support are optional

Yah, because SoB without Exorcists work so well. ;-)

It's still early days for 6th and I hope they'll clean it up. Right now flyers are ridiculous.

If someone is going to be a D-bag about it, then they will go all the way.
Let us know how it works out when you go by the rules:
Choose sides.
You place your Fort (defense line).
Alternate placing terrain:
He drops a big LoS blocking building right in front of your Gun (that he just happened to have built using nothing but non-window sections of Cities of death parts).

This is all absurd. if you wanna play 6th edition rules then use whats in the 6th edition rule book. if any one argues that, you kick them in the balls and tell the to piss off and go and play 5th edition with some other dick head. simple.

Sebbyp538 wrote:This is all absurd. if you wanna play 6th edition rules then use whats in the 6th edition rule book. if any one argues that, you kick them in the balls and tell the to piss off and go and play 5th edition with some other dick head. simple.

Or just pack up your pieces like normal people would do. No need for violence.

dkellyj wrote:If someone is going to be a D-bag about it, then they will go all the way.
Let us know how it works out when you go by the rules:
Choose sides.
You place your Fort (defense line).
Alternate placing terrain:
He drops a big LoS blocking building right in front of your Gun (that he just happened to have built using nothing but non-window sections of Cities of death parts).

And then you put an objective near or in the fort, and load it full of hard as nails troops.
Now the only way he can take is by destroying the fort, which just got a hell lot harder due to the LoS blocking thing.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

dkellyj wrote:If someone is going to be a D-bag about it, then they will go all the way.
Let us know how it works out when you go by the rules:
Choose sides.
You place your Fort (defense line).
Alternate placing terrain:
He drops a big LoS blocking building right in front of your Gun (that he just happened to have built using nothing but non-window sections of Cities of death parts).

And then you put an objective near or in the fort, and load it full of hard as nails troops.
Now the only way he can take is by destroying the fort, which just got a hell lot harder due to the LoS blocking thing.

Can't, no objectives on or in fortifications.... the more you know

Spetulhu wrote:

Or just pack up your pieces like normal people would do. No need for violence.

That is what I did when I got a game against a vampire puppy player.... set up the board and let him setup his army. While he was setting up, I was packing up. He didn't notice it until he was done deploying.

Lobukia wrote:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

dkellyj wrote:If someone is going to be a D-bag about it, then they will go all the way.
Let us know how it works out when you go by the rules:
Choose sides.
You place your Fort (defense line).
Alternate placing terrain:
He drops a big LoS blocking building right in front of your Gun (that he just happened to have built using nothing but non-window sections of Cities of death parts).

And then you put an objective near or in the fort, and load it full of hard as nails troops.
Now the only way he can take is by destroying the fort, which just got a hell lot harder due to the LoS blocking thing.

Can't, no objectives on or in fortifications.... the more you know

Awww, but I wanted to troll D-bags .


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Mohoc wrote:

Spetulhu wrote:

Or just pack up your pieces like normal people would do. No need for violence.

That is what I did when I got a game against a vampire puppy player.... set up the board and let him setup his army. While he was setting up, I was packing up. He didn't notice it until he was done deploying.

Why did you do that? And by vampire puppy, do you mean BA + SW?

Yes I mean BA+SW and I did it, because he was playing a 100% cheese list in a supposedly friendly 6th ed learning game.

Mohoc wrote:Yes I mean BA+SW and I did it, because he was playing a 100% cheese list in a supposedly friendly 6th ed learning game.

What kind of cheese list? Why would you pack up?

dkellyj wrote:If someone is going to be a D-bag about it, then they will go all the way.
Let us know how it works out when you go by the rules:
Choose sides.
You place your Fort (defense line).
Alternate placing terrain:
He drops a big LoS blocking building right in front of your Gun (that he just happened to have built using nothing but non-window sections of Cities of death parts).

I'm almost loving 6th edition in it's entirety, but I don't love forts. I would be that guy, and it wouldn't bother me at all.

I really like the option to buy cover for my Guardsmen. Without it I would probably have a much harder time finding cover.

Am I right in thinking that you can only purchase one fortification? There is only one slot for it and you only get one fortification chart, even at 2k.

No you get 2 forts at 2k. I honestly don't mind them, even if its going to look odd seeing two armies squaring off both with a Fortress of redemption. I can see aegis defense lines as easily permitted, its pretty much an advanced sandbag system.

ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:No you get 2 forts at 2k.

Found that. Thanks for the heads up.

Just point him at the graphic on page 109, where it says his 2nd HQ, all his HS/FA/Elites and more than 2 troops are optional too.

Shandara wrote:Just point him at the graphic on page 109, where it says his 2nd HQ, all his HS/FA/Elites and more than 2 troops are optional too.

As are all of those powerfists and things.

Tell him flyers should be banned aswell, because fortifications are one of the few places you can get a model with the skyfire rule.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Lobukia wrote:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

dkellyj wrote:If someone is going to be a D-bag about it, then they will go all the way.
Let us know how it works out when you go by the rules:
Choose sides.
You place your Fort (defense line).
Alternate placing terrain:
He drops a big LoS blocking building right in front of your Gun (that he just happened to have built using nothing but non-window sections of Cities of death parts).

And then you put an objective near or in the fort, and load it full of hard as nails troops.
Now the only way he can take is by destroying the fort, which just got a hell lot harder due to the LoS blocking thing.

Can't, no objectives on or in fortifications.... the more you know

What if i get a defense line and put it a few inches behind it? Its not technically in it

The big problem with changing or leaving out rules to "balance" something ends up messing up something else and causing a different problem. Unless you rewrite everything to account for your change it is a bad idea to mess around with the rules. I'd say either play 6th as written or play a different edition.

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:I just wonder what will happen when non-Imperium forces take fortifications, especially Tyranids. While I know they can't use the weapons emplacements, they would be one hell of a nut to crack...

They can be used with auto fire BS2 if occupied.

As optional as Monstrous flying creatures in accordance with the rulebook. Don't agree to his flying to equal it out.

Portugal Jones wrote:Not as much as you seem to think. This is the kind of conversation that you really need to have picked up a copy of the rulebook and read the relevant rules before engaging in, as you can't just grab units from other codices, and while sloppy selection might get you a powerful unit, it might also put you in a spot where you've got something that cannot capture or contest objectives (which is much more important in this edition) and whose proximity can disrupt the functioning of your own units.

Yeah well I will admit I haven't read the rules for allies yet Only read peoples' opinions on the rules, haven't had the time to go to the local GW and read for myself.

If they come with significant negatives to balance the positives, it might still work even in the hands of power gamers/tournaments, but I will be honest I still don't like the concept.

In our LGS it's pretty typical for people to just ally armies together, either so we can have 4 people gaming on a table on a busy night or just so we can play bigger games than what people bought with them and in my experience it's more likely to not work out balanced than it is to work out balanced. Some things are cheaper in certain armies to balance a deficiency in another area, wise ally selection can get you the best of both worlds with little penalty. I've played so many games where you put your army on the table and just think "oh crap" when you realise they've combined to take the best of everything. Armies naturally have strengths and weaknesses, like IG and the fact they have lots of good cheap anti-infantry shooting, but lack in other areas where just a few points of Space Wolves might be able to fill those gaps to make an army that is just a little bit scary.

The points value of one troop in one army is not necessarily going to be the same points as the same troop in a different army. Points are balanced (or should be at least) within the given army, not universally. One great example was always Wood Elves in fantasy, they have a few troop choices that seem underpriced, but are only underpriced if you were to take them in another army, within Wood Elves themselves they were fairly priced because they lacked the support troops and cheap regiments to be used as effectively as they might be if they were in, say, a Bretonnian army or Orc army.

If taking allies has been balanced with enough negatives to over ride that, then I'll concede that maybe they'll be ok in the hands of power gamers and in tournaments, but I still think there's a good chance they'll be banned and I still think they should have been labelled as a "discuss with your opponent" thing.

The points value of one troop in one army is not necessarily going to be the same points as the same troop in a different army. Points are balanced (or should be at least) within the given army, not universally.

No, they are not. Believe me this argument is stale and generally never really true.

One great example was always Wood Elves in fantasy, they have a few troop choices that seem underpriced, but are only underpriced if you were to take them in another army, within Wood Elves themselves they were fairly priced because they lacked the support troops and cheap regiments to be used as effectively as they might be if they were in, say, a Bretonnian army or Orc army.

You picked the one army that is Universally given to be having of the most overpriced, weak units in all of Warhammer fantasy.

Not to mention the fact that as a 2 edition old army, it suffers from alot of factors that make it far weaker than it should be in a current codex.

Just the fact that they cost the same points for every army despite it being far better for some than others breaks it for me.