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This can also be exploited in 'Big Guns Never Tire' if there is any dangerous terrain near an objective.

HawaiiMatt wrote:
So turn 1, my executioners will stutter start until immobilized, then in the shooting phase get fixed.

If I were you, I'd fix the hull point instead.

So it becomes its own unit. It now has to worry about its former squadron mates getting in the way when it shoots. And if you are worried about 9 Hydras "BREAKING" the game that should tell you something about your list.

Its less that and more of the fact that you now have 9 hydras that can shoot independantly and thus can put just enough fire on each target to kill without wasting excess shots. There is a rule for split fire and a reason most models dont have it. This is essentially giving your vehicles a special rule that they were never intended to have.

Totally game breaking.
By the end of about Turn 23 you could easily have split a squadron into 3 separate units. Of course those 3 immobilised and helpless tanks are now spread thin across the board (so they could move out of coherency).

 Vindicare-Obsession wrote:
Its less that and more of the fact that you now have 9 hydras that can shoot independantly and thus can put just enough fire on each target to kill without wasting excess shots. There is a rule for split fire and a reason most models dont have it. This is essentially giving your vehicles a special rule that they were never intended to have.

You talk as if you can be sure of failing 6 dangerous terrain tests on the right vehicles on demand. They can probably separate off one or two a turn. When you're actually looking at only 1 or 2 a turn on averages. And that's on the assumption you have enough available terrain to drive them into... Which depending how many guardsmen want cover saves could be less that certain.

This is another scare over a paper tiger.

I'm not saying its all that scary, Im saying there is a reason people have a problem with it. I think the change was done so people would stop losing 90+ points to a botched terrain roll and instead its gone beyond that.

A convuluted plan to damage huge amounts of your own army, then field a fairly rubbish techpriest to fix damage he can't possibly predict where it will happen in a line of 9 vehicles? Really? Come now... This is a prime example of much ado about nothing.

Who the heck would drive hydras - halving their shots - just for a 1 in 6 chance of gaining split fire while also losing a hull point?

I really dont care about hydras. I'm more worried about plasma russ and if you arent worried about 9 different plasma cannon based tanks you have, Ahem, armies of steel. (so to say)

Really? You'd need at least 2000 points for nine plasma russ to actually fit into an army and it would be easier to simply use your extra 3 heavy support choices from the second chart.

Yes, you're panicking over nothing. Try to calm down.

 Hymirl wrote:
Really? You'd need at least 2000 points for nine plasma russ to actually fit into an army and it would be easier to simply use your extra 3 heavy support choices from the second chart.

Yes, you're panicking over nothing. Try to calm down.

Without sponsons, it's 1900 for 9 russes, 2 vet squads and a CCS.

 Hymirl wrote:
Really? You'd need at least 2000 points for nine plasma russ to actually fit into an army and it would be easier to simply use your extra 3 heavy support choices from the second chart.

Yes, you're panicking over nothing. Try to calm down.

When you have had your forces decimated by 9 plasma russ' you can tell me to clam down. It was not a pleasent gaming experiance.

But there is no way they were in 9 different units.

And you really need some line disruption units.

There is only so much you can do to disrupt a formaiton of leman russ' that you have to target individualy. Regardless of my own issues in my own games, I find it stupid that they changed this. While it may be legal, its definatly worthy of TFG.

How many turns did it take for them to become their own units? How many 1's can he roll in a turn?

Using averages, it should take 2 turns just to get *1* Russ to get immobolized, and another 2 turns for the second one.

 Kreedos wrote:
Seems they are really considered squadrons then. I stand corrected. Both counter arguements are completely valid.

Q: When taking multiple Penitent Engines in a Heavy Support slot,
are these purchased as a single squadron or do they operate
independently of one another? (p91)
A: They are purchased as a squadron.

When you roll 9 dangerous terrain checks in a sinlge turn thats usually 2 per turn, not .5. Something is wrong with your math.

 Vindicare-Obsession wrote:
When you roll 9 dangerous terrain checks in a sinlge turn thats usually 2 per turn, not .5.

1.5.

 Vindicare-Obsession wrote:
Something is wrong with your math.

Glass house, yadda yadda.