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Rommel44 wrote:

EagleArk wrote:Exterminator, executioner, all the same. And anyway i was just saying atm it doesn't have gets hot but because of a grammar failure it is implied, also of note, according to the flying monstrous creature entry, they have the relentless smash special rule. (also because of punctuation)

Hmmm The Executioner having 3x S7 Plasma Cannon blast template shots and 11 Rear Armor compared to a 4x shot, Twin Linked Autocannon with 10 Rear Armor............ oh yeah, they are really the same mate . I dont think it was a typo on GW's part, as like I said earlier, you give the Executioner Main Turrent weapon the Get Hot rule, it becomes worthless, enough said. And by relentless do you mean the Lumbering Behemoth rule? I thought that rule just meant that if I move more then 6 that I can fire my turrent weapon and my hull-mounted weapon at normal BS or did I misread that? Just want to make sure about that.

Executioner with plas sponsons is going to be removing 1 hull point from itself pretty much every turn, my friend with 3 in his guard army won't be hapy :/ good thing he didn't glue any of the weapons.

Edit: voted demolisher, st10 ap 2 pie plates with lumbering beheamoth scare the bejeezus out of people, so you should take 9 of them!

If someone legitimately tried to use the "relentless smash" bullcrap, they would find themselves with very few games to play. This is still a social game where you have to interact with real people.

But 'get's hot' is not listed in the executioner profile (which is also described as a rare and exotic weapon. its not a standard plasma cannon). You can't make the assumption that they just forgot it, until they FAQ it. If you think that's the same as a missing comma, then *facepalm*.

Back on topic, I like taking one of each. While I love demolishers, they are really best as dedicated 2+ infantry killers. You pay a premium for that, and it's easy for them to overkill units if they don't have the right targets. Use the demolisher to counter heavy infantry (of which there will usually be very few of), and use the russ as a general workhorse. 90% of stuff, it will kill just as well, for cheaper and from a safer distance. I run hull lascannons on both, as it gives good hitting power and range, as their targets are normally 3+, 2+, or vehicles. For 15 points, they always do SOMETHING, and I'm always glad I take them.

Keep in mind that getting assaulted is pretty much instadeath now, so try to premeasure 18 inches away from threats.
Interestingly, with 'lumbering behemoth', russes got a hell of a lot faster. They can move 6+d6 inches in the movement phase, and then flat out a further 6 inches like any other vehicle. Makes extreme re-positioning much easier, especially when the enemy moves out of LoS for a turn (happens easily if you remain stationary a lot)

Ive had success running two demolishers with HB sponsons right up the middle. The S10 helps with taking out vehicles especially with the new template rules. And the amount of firepower from the 6 HBs will scare a lot of infantry/light tanks. Granted they'll most likely be destroyed as they will get into close combat eventually, but they do cause all kinds of havoc while they're alive, and can give you control of an area.

I personally prefer the demolisher for the superior armour strength, and AP.

Both. Two LRBT's & one Demolisher. Decided within a few hours of reading the rulebook & this hasn't changed.

The general idea is that, with the other heavy support slots, Hydras are only average units now + the artillery pieces all provide the same function (ignoring 'barrage') as normal Pie-Plate russes. AV14 is king.

Weaker vehicles are easier to kill quickly and I will be fielding less of those thanks to capture objectives.

Just think; What can't you accomplish with two LRBT's, one demolisher and two Vendettas (personally these are the only ones worth fitting with extra sponsons - h.bolters!) 745pts of fantastic! .

Demolisher 100%
AP2 gives you the +1 on the damage chart and the short range will benefit a mobile list like this. Not to mention the increase in terminator meta that seems prevalent in everyone's list making.

EagleArk wrote:I think the lack of gets hot on the exterminator plasma cannon is a typo, its profile lists it as "Heavy 3, Blast," note the comma, it is the only entry in the entire reference that is finished with a comma. I read that to mean that the gets hot was simply forgotten. Expect it to be FAQ`ed.

No, the fluff on the plasma cannon is that its based on rare and ancient technology that has a superior ventilation system, specifically to prevent it from malfunctioning.

Fluff=/=Rules, but in this case it is confirming that it isn't a typo. The only typo is that comma itself.

Razerous wrote:Both. Two LRBT's & one Demolisher. Decided within a few hours of reading the rulebook & this hasn't changed.

Why not 2 and 2, assuming you have the points for it?

Squadrons might not be optimal but I find things work better in pairs anyway and another leman russ chassis is rarely a bad thing.

When your opponent spams terminators or mega-nobz, etc. and gets in your grill your gonna want that AP2...

... which brings us to the third serious contender, the exterminator.

A demolisher has a roughly 50% chance to hit, say, 3 said terminators. If they're regular terminators, that's an average of .84 termie killed per shot, or .5 if they have storm shields. The hull heavy bolter adds 0.16.

Meanwhile, for basically the same price, you get a bolter boat exterminator which averages 3 autocannon and 4.5 heavy bolter hits for 5.5 wounds for .9 wounds.

Or, to put it another way, an exterminator is as good against termies and MANZ, while being twice as good as termies with storm shields.

While also shredding hordes and lighter vehicles. The S10 and Ap2 of the demolisher is nice, of course, but it's not a clear and away winner in the world of russes.

Ailaros wrote:... which brings us to the third serious contender, the exterminator.

A demolisher has a roughly 50% chance to hit, say, 3 said terminators. If they're regular terminators, that's an average of 1 termie killed per shot, or .5 if they have storm shields. The hull heavy bolter adds 0.16.

Meanwhile, for basically the same price, you get a bolter boat exterminator which averages 3 autocannon and 4.5 heavy bolter hits for 5.5 wounds for .9 wounds.

Or, to put it another way, an exterminator is as good against termies and MANZ, while being twice as good as termies with storm shields.

While also shredding hordes and lighter vehicles. The S10 and Ap2 of the demolisher is nice, of course, but it's not a clear and away winner in the world of russes.

As an ork player who has been running a lot of meganobz I fear the demolisher...

Maybe it's just me.

Rommel44 wrote:

BloodAngels Brother wrote:Demolishers with basic Sponson Heavy Bolters/Multi Meltas and a Laz Cannon in the front for the ranged taps that just happen .

Was planning on the Heavy Bolter side sponsors mate, but not to sure about the Lascannon to be honest. Was thinking of adding a heavy flamer as the hull mounted weapon as I tend to come across a lot of horde armies, and since I will most likely have to move closer to the opponent in order to get in range, it can help out a lot. However, does that mean that the Lumbering Behemoth rule allows me to move more then 6 inches and then I can fire my turrent weapon and my hull-mounted weapon at normal BS or did I misread that? Just want to make sure about that.

Its what ever you are normaly allowed to fire for that speed (6"=1 Weapon Ext). So yes you can fire main cannon and 1 outher thing.
The only problem I have is that you want to get close bit not template close also with the LC you can start hitting at further range and keep walking it in
The HB also fine for that

So, the more I've been mulling over this, the more I'm starting to think that the LRBT is actually the worse option now. The blast rules got better, but the changes to the chart and the fact that it's one shot actually make it not that good of a vehicle killer as I originally thought. Add to this the fact that hordes have never really cared ALL that much about a battlecannon, and the battlecannon really isn't for killing heavy targets, and the things it's good against appear narrower than I originally thought.

I think the demolisher really might be the clear winner, here. It does everything a LRBT does, except that it also kills terminators, vehicles, and fortifications. Its only drawback (range), has just been mitigated by the new flat-out rules.

The range on the Demolisher was never that much of a problem IMHO. It could take most of the damage thrown at it in that range bracket.

I like demolishers for the extra armour. If the armour were equal I'd perhaps prefer LRBT because they are cheaper.

I woudl have to go with the Demolisher.

1) Since you force is mobiel and mostly limited to 6" or 12" movement anyway you might as well take the shorter range option.

2) With termeis gettign saves from power weapson you are going to see a ot more terminatro units out there. AP2 guns are the best way to deal with them (who wants to get into CC with terminators? Apart from other terminators) - so if you have access to AP2 guns (ESPECIALLY Pie Plates) take them, take 2 if you can.

--It's worth pointing out that not just terminators have 2+ saves. SM Captains have access to Artcier armour, necron OverLords have Sempiternal Weave and Sanguinary Guard have a 2+ save (with no invul either!) so the Dempolisher is actually quite a versatile cannon as well.


This is why i have started taking squads fo heavy Destroyers with their AP2 gund in every one fo my necron lists - i have to regret the decision.

EagleArk wrote:I think the lack of gets hot on the exterminator plasma cannon is a typo, its profile lists it as "Heavy 3, Blast," note the comma, it is the only entry in the entire reference that is finished with a comma. I read that to mean that the gets hot was simply forgotten. Expect it to be FAQ`ed.

Yeh...... I just checked the whole book and this comma you're talking about doesn't exist. It doesn't exist on pg 49 in the main LRBT rules section and it's not in the summary page at the back. Even if it did exist, it would prove nothing, but it doesn't - so there.

However, unless I've missed something, Plasma Cannon sponsons are "blast" ... and you can't snap fire blast weapons. That means that (ignoring the new downside of 'Gets Hot'), you won't be able to fire both of them if you move (and then your lascannon is BS1 as well), so they don't seem to be a good match for the demolisher. They might make a reasonable addition to longer-ranged varients that can stand off and fire while stationary.
I'm thinking of an Executioner with HLC and SPCs and cammo netting behind an Aegis Defence Line. Stupidly expensive though


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A Demolisher with HLC and SHBs and pintel stubber would be good though - even if all the extra dakka guns did was provide some protection from Weapon Destroyed results

I'm personally running one of each. I've yet to test it out, but if you really can't decide, you can always do the same.

DOOMBREAD wrote:I'm personally running one of each.

Not enough. Two of each
It varies from army to army, I just find LRBTs need to provide supporting fire rather than be relied on to deal with anything better than a Tac squad out of cover. LR Demolishers seem to be more effective in my experience. I think the best advice to give for either is that YMMV.