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 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
Just beginning to read now but noticed something, a mistake that is very commonly made; Nobs in a Boyz unit with Shootas can't take Power Claws. I've seen many people make this mistake, but if you look in the Codex, in order to take Shootas every Boy in the squad including the Nob must exchange their pistol and CCW for Shootas, either all of them or none of them. And if you want a Power Claw you have to trade your CCW specifically; if you don't have the CCW anymore you can't get the Claw, and if you don't trade the CCW and pistol for the Shoota then none of the Boyz in the squad can do it.

Looking forward to reading the report; I'll edit any further comments in here.

That does seem weird indeed, but I think it is perfectly legal. First upgrade a boy to a PK Nob and then make all the slugga boys into shoota boys. There doesn't appear to be an order of which needs to be upgraded first.

Any experienced ork players care to weigh in on this?

 jy2 wrote:

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
Just beginning to read now but noticed something, a mistake that is very commonly made; Nobs in a Boyz unit with Shootas can't take Power Claws. I've seen many people make this mistake, but if you look in the Codex, in order to take Shootas every Boy in the squad including the Nob must exchange their pistol and CCW for Shootas, either all of them or none of them. And if you want a Power Claw you have to trade your CCW specifically; if you don't have the CCW anymore you can't get the Claw, and if you don't trade the CCW and pistol for the Shoota then none of the Boyz in the squad can do it.

Looking forward to reading the report; I'll edit any further comments in here.

That does seem weird indeed, but I think it is perfectly legal. First upgrade a boy to a PK Nob and then make all the slugga boys into shoota boys. There doesn't appear to be an order of which needs to be upgraded first.

Any experienced ork players care to weigh in on this?

You are correct, jy2. Nobs can take PKs, regardless of whether in a shoota mob or a choppa mob. It's even in the FAQ on the last page.

What you CAN'T do is have a Nob equipped with a shoota AND a PK at the same time.

Well if it's in the FAQ then fair enough, but by the book you couldn't.

Game #2 - 2200 Orks vs Daemons


--------------------------------------------------------------


PRE-GAME ANALYSIS:

Daemons:
Ok, I kind of screwed up here. My opponent for this game is a younger, less experienced player. I've played against him before. In our last game, I used my daemons against his daemons and nearly tabled him so I know exactly the skill level I was dealing with. Thus, to make the game probably a little fairer, I decided to give him a 10% handicap. Basically, I decided to let him use 2200pts of daemons against what I thought was 2000pts of orks. However, what I forgot was that I took out the lootas from my original list in order to fit the IG blob squad in. So what I thought was supposed to be 2000pts of orks was actually 2225pts of orks. I actually didn't even catch this mistake until I was starting my report. Not only did I not give my opponent a handicap, but I actually had a slight advantage over him! So to my opponent, I apologize. My bad.

Now my opponent, Jason, brought a very similar list to the one that I used against him (which was basically my list here). As a matter of fact, in order to use this army, he had to borrow a lot of my daemons (which is probably why some of the models will look very familiar to those who have been reading my reports).

Now with that said, this daemon army is a very dangerous opponent to my army. As a matter of fact, it's got the potential to table my army. He is spamming flying monstrous creatures and Breath of Chaos, both of which exploits my weaknesses. He's got 5 FMC's. I've got very weak anti-air shooting. He's got good mobility. Other than the nob bikers, my army is really slow. And he's got the best weapon against my horde army - lots of templates! Also, with Smash attacks and Breath of Chaos, he can easily deal with my nob bikers. While I've got much sturdier troops than him, I'm afraid all my troops are going to be too preoccupied against his "threats" to have time to worry about his troops.

I think overall, his daemon army matches up favorably against mine. The main thing that I have going for me, however, is a much larger experience edge over my younger opponent.


Orks:
This is the perfect game to test out the resiliency of my horde army. His firepower is really scary. The last time I ran my daemons against my friend's orks, my flamers absolutely destroyed his army. In that game, I only had 2 units of them and Fateweaver and no flying daemon princes with breath. I also only have 1 FMC that game. In this game, my opponent is running 5 FMC's and 7 units with Breath. He's also got some shooting with 32 pink horrors. Will my horde be able to survive all that firepower? I guess that'll depend on how savvy a general my opponent is.

He's going to have to rely on his shooting because there's no way his daemons are going to out-assault 150+ fearless/stubborn models. No, once they assault, they are going to be tied down for the rest of the game unless if they can get the combo-charge on 1 unit at a time. And if Fateweaver isn't there to give them some protection, I believe daemons should lose the war of attrition against that many bodies. So hopefully, he will avoid assaulting me unless he has no other recourse for action (or unless if his assault can bring my orks down to below Fearless level).

Also, with this being the Scouring (6 objectives), I should have the advantage with 8 scoring units, most of which are much more durable than his scoring units. Also, I know daemons inside out and probably better than my opponent. I would say that I have the experience edge here as well. I feel that had I actually given him the extra points, the match would have been more fair, but with the points being about even, I think my opponent will be the underdog in this game.


--------------------------------------------------------------


Deployment:

Nice report! And I definitely agree on that the biggest weakness of Draigowing is its mobility.

Valek wrote:Agreed on this, but still 12 (rulebooks says you can redeploy 12, you can't be within 12 of another unit and you cant charge on turn one. further up on turn one, might make closing the gap when spread out easier.

It's 6" for Infantry, Monstrous Creatures, Walkers and Artillery, 12" for any other unit type. So Paladins can definitely only redeploy 6" with Scout.

Fxeni wrote:You are correct, jy2. Nobs can take PKs, regardless of whether in a shoota mob or a choppa mob. It's even in the FAQ on the last page.

What you CAN'T do is have a Nob equipped with a shoota AND a PK at the same time.

Aye. You can give him a Big Shoota or Rokkit Launcha though, if you want to maximise the amount of shootas in the mob. You'll even benefit from Precision Shots.

So what happen during this unfair () game ?

@ Godless-Mimicry

From the Ork FAQ

Q. If a Boyz mob exchange sluggas and choppas with shootas, can a
Nob take a power klaw or a big choppa? (p100)
A. You may upgrade the Nob to have a big choppa or power
klaw before you choose to upgrade the mob to have shootas, in
which case the Nob is not affected by the mob’s weapon swap
(as he no longer has a choppa to swap), does not receive a
shoota and keeps his slugga and power klaw/big choppa
instead.

Nevermind, already pointed out by others.

 jy2 wrote:
POST-GAME ANALYSIS:

Grey Knights:
Grey knights made several mistakes that contributed to their downfall. And no, forgetting about the librarian's 2++ in combat wasn't one of them. While that was a mistake, IMO it really didn't impact the game all that much. Rather, their mistakes included:

- Over-committed the paladinstar. Basically, they were stuck in No-man's-land, unable to get to the opponent's objective and unable to reach their own objective. They should have either committed to defending their own objective or to trying to contest the enemy's objective. If defending, they shouldn't have been so far out. If attacking, they should have perhaps considered deepstriking because they would have never made it there to contest on foot.

In 6th edition a lot of armies have no answer for paladins, and in 6th edition you need really durable units. He would have been better off combat squading and have 5 paladins hanging back near his objective (but not too far back so he does not get a few rounds of shooting in before having to retreat) while having Draigo, the Librarian, and 5 Paladins range forward. It is a very common mistake to keep them as a 10-man squad and that is almost never a good idea.

- Tried to rely on a MSU unit to hold the home objective. With the dakkajet around, the MSU troops were never really safe especially since terrain couldn't completely block LOS to them. Also, splitting up the units almost gave orks First Blood as they were almost able to wipe out a combat squad. They should have just stuck together as 1 unit and stayed "home".

You need to take it on a game-by-game basis, but I like combat squading my paladins, and keeping my strikes together. Strike are not all that strong but when you keep them together they are more durable, able to do more damage, and more effective on overwatch.

- Should not have shot at the gretchins with the strikers. Should have just assaulted them instead.

Assaulting in cover is very hard these days. Also assault is a lot more decisive than shooting. If you take yourself out of range of charging you are screwed because you can't contest the objective and they just take a normal morale roll to hang around. You need to beat them in combat and have them run.

Orks:
Being very familiar with Draigowing, I know exactly how to exploit their weaknesses. And that includes:

- Lack of mobility. If you can out-maneuver them or tie them up for a couple of turns (or to just distract them), then you are in decent shape. Now if this was a multiple-objectives scenario, then it wouldn't be so bad as the paladinstar should be able to get to an objective more easily. But with the Emperor's Will, they have a long ways to travel to reach the objective.

This is a huge weakness. I think the paladin army does better the more points in the game. I really miss interceptor squads when I can't afford them for the added mobility.

- Ignore the deathstar. Focus on killing the support units. This is one of the reasons why I don't advocate an Apothecary or grenade-caddie techmarine with the paladinstar. Heck, even adding the librarian is over-kill. The more "killy" or resilient you make it, the more you encourage your opponent to focus on the weaker support units instead. And because you've invested so many points into the paladinstar, your support units are even weaker and easier to kill.

Yup. You want your opponent to at least try to kill your paladins, that will take off some of the fire off of the rest of the army and a reason why you combat squad.

- Deathstars can only be in 1 place at a time. Unless they combat-squad, the paladinstar cannot both "attack" and "defend" at the same time and if they combat-squad, then they are easier to deal with. The trick is to force them to choose. That was the purpose of the nob bikers - to force them to make a decision. Fortunately for the orks, the grey knights made a mistake and advance the paladins too far to be able to recover when the dakkajet shot down the GK objective holders.

This is the 10-man paladin squads biggest weakness. You can only be in 1 place, you can only shoot one target, and then you can only charge the unit you shot, etc. Add to this that in 6th edition you can only hold one objective and you are at a big disadvantage and that is why combat squading is almost always better. Even with only 5 models, 10 2+ wounds are very hard to get through. The only worry is having the nob bikers dive by and assault 5 paladins that do not have an IC, but you can screen them, and you should have enough firepower to keep them honest.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jy2 wrote:

 Valek wrote:

If you look at your list what would you change? I was thinking cutting back some Palladins and add another Dreadknight, Think 6 pally and Libby& Draigo is still a more then annoying deathstar?

Yeah, that would be a viable option - to cut back on some paladins and add another dreadknight. Honestly, I may even drop the librarian as well. At 200pts, he's rather expensive and his psychic hood doesn't work like it used to anymore. But really, it's a matter of preference. There are several good units to choose from. I'd probably drop the Librarian and some paladins. Then get myself another 10 strikers and perhaps a dreadknight. For 6E, I'm leaning more towards a infantry-based GK list with more bodies. Either that or swap out the librarian and some paladins for Coteaz, a shooty objective-sitting henchmen unit, another dreadknight and perhaps a couple of teleporters for some mobility.

Dreadknights are a lot better in 6th edition and they are better than Dreadnaughts now, but I am still not sold on them.

You do not want to cut back on paladins because they are so durable.

Definitely take Coteaz over a librarian. He is 100 points cheaper, gives you the 2 rolls on the divination table (which is why you have the librarian in the 1st place), lets you take some dirt cheap troops, has good equipment, and has a lot of good special rules (Spy network, I have been expecting you etc).

Game #2 - 2200 Orks vs Daemons


2200 Daemons




Bloodthirster (Warlord)
Bloodthirster
Fateweaver

5x Flamers
5x Flamers
5x Flamers
3x Flamers

12x Pink Horrors - Bolt
5x Pink Horrors - Bolt
5x Pink Horrors - Bolt
5x Pink Horrors - Bolt

Daemon Prince - Breath, Wings
Daemon Prince - Breath, Wings


2200 Orks



Biker Warboss - Bosspole, Cybork Body, Power Klaw, Warbike (Warlord)
Big Mek - Cybork Body, Eavy Armor, Kustom Force Field

Primaris Psyker

8x Lootas
7x Lootas

6x Nob Bikers - All Cyborks, 2x Huge Choppas, 2x Power Klaws, Painboy, Waagh Banner
25x Shoota Boyz - Nob w/Power Klaw
25x Shoota Boyz - Nob w/Power Klaw
25x Slugga Boyz - Nob w/Power Klaw
25x Slugga Boyz - Nob w/Power Klaw
15x Gretchins - 1x Runtherd

Platoon Command Squad
Infantry Squad - Meltagun, Sergeant w/Meltabombs + Power Weapon, Commissar w/Power Weapon
Infantry Squad - Meltagun, Sergeant w/Meltabombs + Power Weapon
Infantry Squad - Meltagun, Sergeant w/Meltabombs + Power Weapon
Infantry Squad - Meltagun, Sergeant w/Meltabombs + Power Weapon
Infantry Squad - Meltagun, Sergeant w/Meltabombs + Power Weapon

Total - 2225


-------------------------------------------------------------------


Mission: The Scouring


Deployment: Dawn of War


Initiative: Daemons


-------------------------------------------------------------------


Deployment:




-------------------------------------------------------------------


Daemons 1




Orks 1




Daemons 2




Orks 2




Daemons 3




Orks 3




Daemons 4



Orks 4



Daemons 5



Orks 5

You do know that only the squad that controls the objective gets the benifit right?

- Ignore the deathstar. Focus on killing the support units. This is one of the reasons why I don't advocate an Apothecary or grenade-caddie techmarine with the paladinstar. Heck, even adding the librarian is over-kill. The more "killy" or resilient you make it, the more you encourage your opponent to focus on the weaker support units instead. And because you've invested so many points into the paladinstar, your support units are even weaker and easier to kill.

- Deathstars can only be in 1 place at a time. Unless they combat-squad, the paladinstar cannot both "attack" and "defend" at the same time and if they combat-squad, then they are easier to deal with. The trick is to force them to choose. That was the purpose of the nob bikers - to force them to make a decision. Fortunately for the orks, the grey knights made a mistake and advance the paladins too far to be able to recover when the dakkajet shot down the GK objective holders.

Spot on JY2

Had to wait that long for a 3 turn report?! Thanks for the reports, they always liven my night up.

@Blackmoor

Yeah, sometimes it's better to break up the pallies into combat squads. It all really depends on the scenario and your opponent. In this game, IMO it makes sense to keep them together because:

1. Only 1 objective each.
2. You have 30 strikers as support.
3. Orks had enough resilient bodies that staying together to maximize offense made sense (i.e. take advantage of Prescience).
4. 5-man paladin units will get stuck with the ork mobs for a long time. 10-man units can probably chew through them in probably 2 assault phases. Thus, the full squad makes it harder for the orks or IG mob to tarpit them.

What probably would have been a better tactic this game was 1) to not combat-squad the strikers and 2) to attach 1 of the IC's to a deepstriking strikers instead.

Bronzino88 wrote:
You do know that only the squad that controls the objective gets the benifit right?

You are right. I deployed the units in rows so that multiple units would be controlling the objective like this:

X = objectives
1 = shoota orks
2 = choppa orks
3 = choppa orks
4 = IG


11111 2222222222222222222222222222222222222222222
11111 X 3333333333333333 X 3333333333333333333333 X
11111 4444444444444444444444444444444444444444444


However, my make here was that I didn't read the 2nd paragraph on p. 125 under Identifying Objectives. Thus, I did play it wrong, but now I know. Thanks!

 Ratius wrote:

Spot on JY2

Thanks!

djones520 wrote:
Had to wait that long for a 3 turn report?! Thanks for the reports, they always liven my night up.

Sorry, was just too busy lately. Also, it didn't help that I was addicted to this series that I was watching on Netflix. That took what little free time I had. But now I am done and back.

And at the time of the game, it seemed longer than 3 turns, but that may just be the time it takes to play a horde army.