can i choose the quad gun as a separate objetive? and the quad gun gets cover save?

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**rigeld2**

NickTheButcher wrote:
Where does it say anything about a gun emplacement being battlefield debris? It says that defense lines are battlefield debris.

Page 105 is under the heading "Battlefield Debris", the section it's in is "Battlefield Terrain".
The rules for a Gun Emplacement are on page 105.

**MarkyMark**

anyeri wrote:
So, if the quad gun gets a cover saves, and can be target separately, then i can use jaws of world wolf with a runepriest an then eliminate instantly, because it dont have a initiave valour.
But what i said is that the quad gun don´t get a cover save cause is battle debris, is like a fuel dump or ammo dump, because gives a cover of 3+ to anyone behind the gun, is like give a model behind fuel dump behind, and in base of contact, a aegis line, give a cover save of 4+ to the fuel dump to save them to explode, so if the quad gun gets a cover save behind a aegis gets a cover save, then all the debris get the same?

pd: pardon my bad english jeje

Nope, you JOTWW doesnt affect it, it only affects the named (in the book and FAQ) units, infantry artierlley cavlary etc. Gun emplacement is not on the list so it wont be removed.

Pretty sure it says the gun gets a save and any models behind the gun gets the 4+ as well

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Now, with the defence line ,would you get a save from a flyer directly in front of it shooting at models behind the defence line (not right against it)

**NickTheButcher**

rigeld2 wrote:
NickTheButcher wrote:
Where does it say anything about a gun emplacement being battlefield debris? It says that defense lines are battlefield debris.

Page 105 is under the heading "Battlefield Debris", the section it's in is "Battlefield Terrain".
The rules for a Gun Emplacement are on page 105.

If that's the case, then it seems odd to define Wild Undergrowth as difficult terrain, since technically that's what it already is.

Either way, it would still get a cover save IMO since it's still also a model.

**jdjamesdean@mail.com**

rigeld2 wrote:
NickTheButcher wrote:
Where does it say anything about a gun emplacement being battlefield debris? It says that defense lines are battlefield debris.

Page 105 is under the heading "Battlefield Debris", the section it's in is "Battlefield Terrain".
The rules for a Gun Emplacement are on page 105.

That's kind of like saying, Go to ground is in the shooting phase. So it's a shooting attack

**rigeld2**

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:
rigeld2 wrote:
NickTheButcher wrote:
Where does it say anything about a gun emplacement being battlefield debris? It says that defense lines are battlefield debris.

Page 105 is under the heading "Battlefield Debris", the section it's in is "Battlefield Terrain".
The rules for a Gun Emplacement are on page 105.

That's kind of like saying, Go to ground is in the shooting phase. So it's a shooting attack

No, it's really not. You're welcome to attempt to attack the argument in that manner, but the Battlefield Debris section is all different terrain types. The shooting rules cover lots of different rules that affect - wait for it - shooting. Not just shooting attacks.

**jdjamesdean@mail.com**

rigeld2 wrote:
jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:
rigeld2 wrote:
NickTheButcher wrote:
Where does it say anything about a gun emplacement being battlefield debris? It says that defense lines are battlefield debris.

Page 105 is under the heading "Battlefield Debris", the section it's in is "Battlefield Terrain".
The rules for a Gun Emplacement are on page 105.

That's kind of like saying, Go to ground is in the shooting phase. So it's a shooting attack

No, it's really not. You're welcome to attempt to attack the argument in that manner, but the Battlefield Debris section is all different terrain types. The shooting rules cover lots of different rules that affect - wait for it - shooting. Not just shooting attacks.

Fair enough, I was stretching a bit much on that one regardless. Even for me.

Rigeld, my question though?
Is it a model? "pg3BGB " Every model in WH40K has a profile that lists the values" yada yada

I say yes, and apparently it's terrain as well. So it's a Terrain, model, unit, thingy

**rigeld2**

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:
rigeld2 wrote:
jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:
rigeld2 wrote:
NickTheButcher wrote:
Where does it say anything about a gun emplacement being battlefield debris? It says that defense lines are battlefield debris.

Page 105 is under the heading "Battlefield Debris", the section it's in is "Battlefield Terrain".
The rules for a Gun Emplacement are on page 105.

That's kind of like saying, Go to ground is in the shooting phase. So it's a shooting attack

No, it's really not. You're welcome to attempt to attack the argument in that manner, but the Battlefield Debris section is all different terrain types. The shooting rules cover lots of different rules that affect - wait for it - shooting. Not just shooting attacks.

Fair enough, I was stretching a bit much on that one regardless. Even for me.

Rigeld, my question though?
Is it a model? "pg3BGB " Every model in WH40K has a profile that lists the values" yada yada

I say yes, and apparently it's terrain as well. So it's a Terrain, model, unit, thingy

Sure. Saying it's not terrain, however, is incorrect.

**jdjamesdean@mail.com**

I'm fine with that. As after all it's listed in the battlefield debris section, which lists different terrain.

So Quad Gun-Model,Unit,Terrain

Am I missing anything? (bullseye) perhaps? ^^

**anyeri**

NickTheButcher wrote:
Happyjew wrote:
jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:
anyeri wrote:
Macok wrote:
Tangent wrote:
If the quad gun is mounted on an Aegis Line, does the Aegis Line itself give the quad gun a cover save?

If it covers 25% of quad gun model, then yes.
Normal cover procedures apply.

it is not a "model" or treated as a model, it is stated that is difficult terrain that can be shot or attack in cc (pag104,105) but it is not a model afterall

Nope sorry, that's the defence line.
the quad gun is a gun emplacement, you'll find rules for it on pg 105.

Show me where they call a gun emplacement terrain, having trouble finding it.

Gun Emplacements are Battlefield Debris (pg 104-105), correct?
Battlefield Debris is Difficult Terrain (page 104), correct?
Ergo Gun Emplacements are Terrain.

Where does it say anything about a gun emplacement being battlefield debris? It says that defense lines are battlefield debris.

Gun emplacements are gun emplacements (pg. 105) where it clearly states it's a model. "The type of weapon on the gun emplacement (in this case a Quad Gun)
depends on the model that you're using to represent it".

Pg. 2 also defines models as I pointed out above (it has characteristics, which is a trait that models have).

ok, if we stated that the gun emplacement it is a model, then it is part of the aegis line, cause is a option to buy, then the gun is the only thing that could be attack, since the aegis is terrein and doesn´t have armour valour it cant be considere a building (thats obvious) what i want to said is if the quad gun gets coversave, is like we said that a heavy bolter wich is "part" of a bastion gets a cover save too when the bastion suffer any damage, because is part of the bastion, like the quad gun that is "part" of the aegis line

**NickTheButcher**

anyeri wrote:
NickTheButcher wrote:
Happyjew wrote:
jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:
anyeri wrote:
Macok wrote:
Tangent wrote:
If the quad gun is mounted on an Aegis Line, does the Aegis Line itself give the quad gun a cover save?

If it covers 25% of quad gun model, then yes.
Normal cover procedures apply.

it is not a "model" or treated as a model, it is stated that is difficult terrain that can be shot or attack in cc (pag104,105) but it is not a model afterall

Nope sorry, that's the defence line.
the quad gun is a gun emplacement, you'll find rules for it on pg 105.

Show me where they call a gun emplacement terrain, having trouble finding it.

Gun Emplacements are Battlefield Debris (pg 104-105), correct?
Battlefield Debris is Difficult Terrain (page 104), correct?
Ergo Gun Emplacements are Terrain.

Where does it say anything about a gun emplacement being battlefield debris? It says that defense lines are battlefield debris.

Gun emplacements are gun emplacements (pg. 105) where it clearly states it's a model. "The type of weapon on the gun emplacement (in this case a Quad Gun)
depends on the model that you're using to represent it".

Pg. 2 also defines models as I pointed out above (it has characteristics, which is a trait that models have).

ok, if we stated that the gun emplacement it is a model, then it is part of the aegis line, cause is a option to buy, then the gun is the only thing that could be attack, since the aegis is terrein and doesn´t have armour valour it cant be considere a building (thats obvious) what i want to said is if the quad gun gets coversave, is like we said that a heavy bolter wich is "part" of a bastion gets a cover save too when the bastion suffer any damage, because is part of the bastion, like the quad gun that is "part" of the aegis line

1. Does the heavy bolter in the bastion have a profile? (Answer: No.) -- this is also an emplaced weapon (Pg. 96), not a gun emplacement (Pg.105).
2.Cover save is determined by whether or not 25% of the model is obscured from the firers LoS. So, if the Quad-Gun meets that criteria, and is a model (because it has a statline/profile), then yes, it should get a cover save.