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This thread get me so angry! Not you dakka fans!
Im a tyranid player and i feel the need to defend the bugs!

I personally find that tyranids aren't that low, In 6th i think they went up from bottom tier. I find i win more games, but against some armys im tabled quicker.

Unfortunatly, the codex is nearly impossible to work with. The only units that are good in the codex, every army has. Flyrants, Terivgons, hive guard, Every single list has them and so everyone knows what to expect. so its now becoming boring to play!

Overwatch and flyers killed nids assualt lists but hull points was a plus for us. Nidzilla lists are as good as ever. Even critters with Furious Charge can handle tanks now.

All my local meta is OP codex's though

Top-tier (And my local meta)
Necrons
Space Wolves
Blood Angels
Grey Knights

Orks went down! I used to have a good game with orks. But now there assualt lists suffered. Sticking burners in a wagon used to be my bane but now i can glance the wagon to death before they get to me.

Thats my bit...

tuiman wrote:

Do you even play grey knights?

They are far from OP in 6th edition now, top tier yes, but not OP

About 2/3 of my local meta are Grey Knights.

And yes, paying nothing or close-to-nothing for very strong upgrades / powers is overpowered.

 Luke_Prowler wrote:

Orks apparently transcend tiers and have reached a competitive nirvana

Corrected.

 Hollowman wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

GW's shameful errors that need to be removed from the game:

You can pry my Sisters from my cold, dead hands!

QFT

 Sigvatr wrote:

tuiman wrote:

Do you even play grey knights?

They are far from OP in 6th edition now, top tier yes, but not OP

About 2/3 of my local meta are Grey Knights.

And yes, paying nothing or close-to-nothing for very strong upgrades / powers is overpowered.

I agree, bolters AC's storm bolters heavy bolters flamers h flamers etc are balanced across the game, then GK's come along and for next to nothing adds +1 to the str of all of those and more

 TheCaptain wrote:

 DarkCorsair wrote:

TOURNAMENT WINNERS
Necrons
Grey Knights
Imperial Guard
Chaos Daemons

STRONGLY COMPETITIVE
Space Wolves
Orks
Blood Angels

COMPETITIVE
Chaos Space Marines
Dark Angels
Space Marines
Sisters of Battle
Tyranids

Almost might have a chance maybe?
Tau Empire
Black Templars
Dark Eldar
Eldar

This guy gets it.

Yeah Corsair what about Tau you've seen phoenix play them it can be made to work even if the margin for eroor is tiny.

 captain collius wrote:


Yeah Corsair what about Tau you've seen phoenix play them it can be made to work even if the margin for eroor is tiny.

Not sure what your issue is.

No army in 40K is unbeatable. Every army has a chance. If you can make Tau work, props to you.

All the list is saying is that Tau have usually slightly more uphill battle before them than ... say ... Necrons or Space Wolves do.

I don't know what DA you guys have been playing then
In a tournament recently, I ran through a Vulkan player like butter with my Dualwing combo. Yes they may be overpriced, but they are still a strong book. DarkCorsair's list makes perfect sense to me.

Necrons
Imperial Guard
Grey Knights
Space Wolves
Blood Angels
Dark Eldar
Chaos Space Marines
Tyranids
Tau Empire
Space Marines
Orks
Chaos Daemons
Eldar
Dark Angels
Sisters of Battle
Black Templars

 riverhawks32 wrote:
I don't know what DA you guys have been playing then
In a tournament recently, I ran through a Vulkan player like butter with my Dualwing combo. Yes they may be overpriced, but they are still a strong book. DarkCorsair's list makes perfect sense to me.

Again. Fallacy of the sample of 1.

You can win with ANY army against ANY other army in 40K.

Rankings like the above, however, are based on the assumption (right or wrong) that on average (say.. across a representative sample of 1000 games with players from all walks of life and experience-levels) the Space Marines Codex will win more often than the Dark Angels Codex... say 600:400. That would put the Space Marines Codex ahead of the Dark Angels Codex, notwithstanding the fact that Dark Angels still won 400 times.

Imperial Guard
Necrons
Grey Knights
Space Wolves
Chaos Daemons
Blood Angels
Orks
Chaos Space Marines (?)
Dark Eldar
Space Marines
Tyranids
Tau
Eldar
Dark Angels
Sisters of Battle
Black Templars

Essentially the Red are the prize winners. Strong/Agressive units Mobility etc. They have what you need to win readily available.

The OJ guys they've got stuff some of it's not the "right" stuff though, points costs are high here typically or they can't handle things like flyers too reliably.

Green, Sisters imo have never been truly competitive, I'd say theyre on the high end of the Green borderline OJ, however Tau,BT,DA they need some lovin.


Chaos Daemons
Imperial Guard
Necrons
Space Wolves
Grey Knights
Tyranids
Blood Angels
Orks
Chaos Space Marines
Space Marines
Dark Eldar
Eldar
Tau Empire
Dark Angels
Sisters of Battle
Black Templars

DAaddict wrote:

 riverhawks32 wrote:
May I ask why DA are bottom 3 in almost every single one?

Hmm 10% overcost on most 30% overcost on bikes. Idiot librarians. As a whole they suck. Deathwing - if separated is a fair to middling army choice but suffers from small numbers and slow. Still 30 termies is pretty impressive.

I wouldn't put them in the bottom three; they're not bad at the same level as 'Nids are bad, the advantages of Deathwing Assault (half your Terminators drop on turn one) and teleport homers on the bikes are significant, even if everything's overpriced.

 Zweischneid wrote:

 captain collius wrote:


Yeah Corsair what about Tau you've seen phoenix play them it can be made to work even if the margin for eroor is tiny.

Not sure what your issue is.

No army in 40K is unbeatable. Every army has a chance. If you can make Tau work, props to you.

All the list is saying is that Tau have usually slightly more uphill battle before them than ... say ... Necrons or Space Wolves do.

I'm simply saying Tau are niot as bad as people are making them out they are simply limited in their choice of builds.

Winners:
-Necrons
-Grey Knights
-Blood Angels
-Space Wolves
-Space Marines
-Imperial Guard

Competitive:
-Chaos Space Marines
-Daemons
-Dark Eldar
-Eldar
-Orks
-Dark Angels

Weak:
-Tau
-Tyranids
-Sisters of Battle

BlaxicanX wrote:

 Zande4 wrote:
Hmm using the general consensus from the tiers thread I made.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/481945.page


Necrons - Flying Circus

Imperial Guard
Necrons
Space Wolves
Grey Knights
Blood Angels

Chaos Daemons
Orks
Space Marines
Dark Eldar

Chaos Space Marines
Tau
Dark Angels - Death Wing
Tyranids
Sisters of Battle

Eldar
Black Templars
Dark Angels

Perfect list. The thread can end now, guys.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

DAaddict wrote:

 riverhawks32 wrote:
May I ask why DA are bottom 3 in almost every single one?

Hmm 10% overcost on most 30% overcost on bikes. Idiot librarians. As a whole they suck. Deathwing - if separated is a fair to middling army choice but suffers from small numbers and slow. Still 30 termies is pretty impressive.

I wouldn't put them in the bottom three; they're not bad at the same level as 'Nids are bad, the advantages of Deathwing Assault (half your Terminators drop on turn one) and teleport homers on the bikes are significant, even if everything's overpriced.

I have seen Nid lists dominate tournaments filled with Deathwing, Space Wolve, IG and Grey Knights. I am not saying that Dark Angels or Tyranids are horrible. Just that they either have limited builds or built-iin limitations. Nothing DA or any lower tier army has approaches the idiot proof of taking 2 or 3 long fangs or a santa claus grenade throwing idiot with grey knights.

Might as well throw my hat in on this one. Armies are ranked by 3 power levels, and in order imho. For the record, I have done better and had an easier time in 6th so far with my Nids than I have with my Wolves (and all those games with the Nids were vs high-to-mid-tier level armies, whereas I have struggled with my Wolves vs some low-tier armies). Also, all of the Low-Tier armies (except for BT) are great allies, because they have some good choices, but don't jive so well as a cohesive army, due largely to outdated points costs:

High-Tier
Necrons
Imperial Guard
Space Wolves
Grey Knights

Mid-Tier
Chaos Space Marines
Blood Angels
Space Marines
Dark Eldar
Chaos Daemons
Tyranids
Orks
Sisters of Battle

Low-Tier
Dark Angels
Eldar
Tau Empire
Black Templar

DAaddict wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

DAaddict wrote:

 riverhawks32 wrote:
May I ask why DA are bottom 3 in almost every single one?

Hmm 10% overcost on most 30% overcost on bikes. Idiot librarians. As a whole they suck. Deathwing - if separated is a fair to middling army choice but suffers from small numbers and slow. Still 30 termies is pretty impressive.

I wouldn't put them in the bottom three; they're not bad at the same level as 'Nids are bad, the advantages of Deathwing Assault (half your Terminators drop on turn one) and teleport homers on the bikes are significant, even if everything's overpriced.

I have seen Nid lists dominate tournaments filled with Deathwing, Space Wolve, IG and Grey Knights. I am not saying that Dark Angels or Tyranids are horrible. Just that they either have limited builds or built-iin limitations. Nothing DA or any lower tier army has approaches the idiot proof of taking 2 or 3 long fangs or a santa claus grenade throwing idiot with grey knights.

They don't have as many fancy options, true, but Ravenwing scout move/Deathwing Assault a couple of squads/start shooting/charge and rip faces off in turn 2 does seem pretty idiot-proof to me...

Sigvatr wrote:About 2/3 of my local meta are Grey Knights.

Right, and this is what is important. 6th ed made some things of all armies worse, and some things of all armies better. It's easy to look at your army in a vacuum and only see the better or worse parts, depending on your disposition.

What's important is the relative difference between the armies. A great, if anecdotal way of seeing this is by looking at what the local powergamers do. My FLGS is pretty competitive, so I've seen plenty of examples already.

In the case of my store, one player played BA and switched over to vendetta guard once 6th came out. One player played DE and just switched to GK. Another played SW and just switched to GK. Another played fzorgle/nurgle CSM and switched to necron.

Now, when I look around my store (not including me), I see:

5 GK players
2 vendetta guard players
2 BA players
2 necron players
1 tau player

And then another crazy coot who plays foot guard and looses all the time. In any case, this list is pretty telling to me. When 11 out of 14 players play flier spam, BA, or GK...

Blah! That much flyer spam? I'm pretty lucky in that my FLGS has every army represented. And I mean every army. We have BT, Tau, Deamons, DE, Eldar, my SoB. We also don't have many WAAC or TFG (maybe 2 at most)

I think it should be like this

Competitive.

Necrons
Imperial Guard
Space Wolves
Grey Knights
Chaos Space Marines
Blood Angels
Space Marines
Dark Eldar
Chaos Daemons
Tyranids
Orks
Sisters of Battle
Dark Angels
Eldar
Tau Empire
Black Templar

Obviously some are more competitive than others, but I find the biggest difference maker in a game is skill/knowledge of the players. Any army can beat any other (if the situation is right). Especially now with the points being frugal in a lot of missions.

Eg - First blood. If both players are cautious and make sure to hold on to the objectives they start with then first blood can decide a match.
For Example
In my last game I took a wraithlord, A wraithseer, A farseer with10 wraithguard and a warlock and some jetbikes I kept in reserve. To get first blood against me on turn 1, my opponant needed to drop a wraithlord that was in cover, the wraithseer with T8 and 5++ or 10 t6 wraithguard with a farseer and a cover save. Some armies would munch that in 2 turns but in that specific game my opponant hadn't enough fire power to do it at 36"+. He took a razorback. I had first blood. That was about it for the game. Could've been a good result for me but for the fact it was late and we both forgot so many rules we decided on a draw.

Although it's hard to argue against necrons being the 'best' at the moment because of the availability of fliers. When all the armies have caught up, it'll balance itself out..
And it will change. GW will probably make 7th ed and nerf fliers but bring in mole pods for everyone. And then whoever can take those as DT's can take a turn at winning. And GW will sell a whole bunch more of kits...

Another "What You Like Sucks" thread. Dakka you are getting predictable. Everybody here is perfectly aware of which codecies are old already; seems a smart move to search for the 15,000 other threads that have already gone over this.

 captain collius wrote:

 TheCaptain wrote:

 DarkCorsair wrote:

TOURNAMENT WINNERS
Necrons
Grey Knights
Imperial Guard
Chaos Daemons

STRONGLY COMPETITIVE
Space Wolves
Orks
Blood Angels

COMPETITIVE
Chaos Space Marines
Dark Angels
Space Marines
Sisters of Battle
Tyranids

Almost might have a chance maybe?
Tau Empire
Black Templars
Dark Eldar
Eldar

This guy gets it.

Yeah Corsair what about Tau you've seen phoenix play them it can be made to work even if the margin for eroor is tiny.

In the hands of Pheonix and several other players I know, Tau can be quite strong. However, I have found that Tau certainly aren't tournament winners and that, aside from a 99% optimized list in the hands of a skilled player, they rarely perform consistently well in a competitive environment. While people like Pheonix are very good, if you're saying "Tau played by Pheonix" you would then have to compare it to things like "Necrons played by Alex Fennel" or "Space Wolves played by Tony". You have to view this from a consistent point of view without variables such as players added in if you're going with pure power rankings.

MarkyMark wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:

tuiman wrote:

Do you even play grey knights?

They are far from OP in 6th edition now, top tier yes, but not OP

About 2/3 of my local meta are Grey Knights.

And yes, paying nothing or close-to-nothing for very strong upgrades / powers is overpowered.

I agree, bolters AC's storm bolters heavy bolters flamers h flamers etc are balanced across the game, then GK's come along and for next to nothing adds +1 to the str of all of those and more

24 inch range, die like any other marines but cost way more?

Psyfleman dreads, are still strong but can now be glanced to death easy, drago-wing is dead, and purifier spam is not as good becasue of the nerf to transport rules, and the msu thing not really working to well anymore,

So if thats what make overpowered, then guard are OP becasue of the vendetta, wolves because of long fangs.

tuiman wrote:
guard are OP becasue of the vendetta, wolves because of long fangs.

One undercosted unit does not make an entire Codex OP.

 d3m01iti0n wrote:
Another "What You Like Sucks" thread. Dakka you are getting predictable. Everybody here is perfectly aware of which codecies are old already; seems a smart move to search for the 15,000 other threads that have already gone over this.

People may be aware of which codices are old, but it's still entertaining for some to talk about it. Also, you can see who's still living in 5th Edition by which people put Daemons on the bottom.

Top
Necrons
Imperial Guard

Mid
Grey Knights
Space Wolves
Blood Angels
Space Marines
Chaos Daemons
Orks
Chaos Space Marines
Eldar
Dark Eldar
Tyranids


Bottom
Tau
Black Templar's
Sisters of Battle

 Rampage wrote:

tuiman wrote:
guard are OP becasue of the vendetta, wolves because of long fangs.

One undercosted unit does not make an entire Codex OP.

Sigh, that was the point I was trying to make Rampage, also if you are going to quote me please quote the whole lot rather than the parts that change my argument completely

Grey knights has psyfleman dreads, maybe purifier halberds as the two OP units

Everything else is pretty balanced, so they are not OP.

tuiman wrote:

 Rampage wrote:

tuiman wrote:
guard are OP becasue of the vendetta, wolves because of long fangs.

One undercosted unit does not make an entire Codex OP.

Sigh, that was the point I was trying to make Rampage, also if you are going to quote me please quote the whole lot rather than the parts that change my argument completely

...oh yeah..

Still that's my fail done for today.

This is how I see it for primary detachments. Go allies, and Eldar rise a lot for example, while Nids become... well, yeah. Three groups, in order, and based on my experience (I've never played Sisters, but I'd love to see some competetive Nuns. I know a few exist)

Necrons
IG
GK
Wolves
Daemons

Tyranids
Blood Angels
Deldar
CHaos Marines
Space Marines
Orks

Dark Angels
Eldar
Tau
Templars
Sisters