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Warming the military up for a bigger engagement in the future

Some of the responses in here are amazing...

If some guy stood outside your house and shot at it all day long, but only managed to hit you once, you wouldn't have a problem with it? You'd be ok with some jerk from across the street telling you that you couldn't respond to it? Couldn't call the cops?

These CIVILIANS in Israel have this happen to their home every day. They didn't sign up for it. It's a part of their everyday life. Some people need to learn some friggen perspective on this.

 Frazzled wrote:

 LordofHats wrote:

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
I don't know why, but I have always loved Israel's response to the shenanigans of HAMAS, and other "terrorist" groups that hit them...

I wouldn't call them shenanigans. More like using a tomahawk missile to kill a really annoying fly who won't leave you alone when you're trying to eat.

More like using a tomahawk missile to kill guys firing other missiles into your country.

Why is Hamas shooting missiles into Israel again?

Because they are denied access to most foodstuffs, products and form of dignity and are constantly being bombed invaded or overflown by supersonic jets at treetop height. Their homes are bulldozed, they are shot at by snipers with impunity from Israeli watchtowers and their land is being stolen.

Would it piss you off Frazzie?

 Glorioski wrote:
I fully support Israels methods in trying to maintain a peaceful existence for their citizens.

Even though it doesn't work and arguably makes things worse?

djones520 wrote:
Some of the responses in here are amazing...

If some guy stood outside your house and shot at it all day long, but only managed to hit you once, you wouldn't have a problem with it? You'd be ok with some jerk from across the street telling you that you couldn't respond to it? Couldn't call the cops?

These CIVILIANS in Israel have this happen to their home every day. They didn't sign up for it. It's a part of their everyday life. Some people need to learn some friggen perspective on this.

And thats the problem how do we end this? Does one side have to wipe the other side compeltely and utterly out, or can they just stop already?

There's also the fact that djones comparison is utterly ridiculous.

 Orlanth wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

 LordofHats wrote:

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
I don't know why, but I have always loved Israel's response to the shenanigans of HAMAS, and other "terrorist" groups that hit them...

I wouldn't call them shenanigans. More like using a tomahawk missile to kill a really annoying fly who won't leave you alone when you're trying to eat.

More like using a tomahawk missile to kill guys firing other missiles into your country.

Why is Hamas shooting missiles into Israel again?

Because they are denied access to most foodstuffs, products and form of dignity and are constantly being bombed invaded or overflown by supersonic jets at treetop height. Their homes are bulldozed, they are shot at by snipers with impunity from Israeli watchtowers and their land is being stolen.

Would it piss you off Frazzie?

I would have moved away long ago. But then again I've been accused of occasionally being sane.
What is the answer for them (I know what it should be for us - aka the USA GETOUT GETOUT GETOUT).

You're suggesting an entire country move? Nice.

 Orlanth wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

 LordofHats wrote:

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
I don't know why, but I have always loved Israel's response to the shenanigans of HAMAS, and other "terrorist" groups that hit them...

I wouldn't call them shenanigans. More like using a tomahawk missile to kill a really annoying fly who won't leave you alone when you're trying to eat.

More like using a tomahawk missile to kill guys firing other missiles into your country.

Why is Hamas shooting missiles into Israel again?

Because they are denied access to most foodstuffs, products and form of dignity and are constantly being bombed invaded or overflown by supersonic jets at treetop height. Their homes are bulldozed, they are shot at by snipers with impunity from Israeli watchtowers and their land is being stolen.

Would it piss you off Frazzie?

You realize everything you just posted is wrong right?

Well, I guess not since you actually posted it.

Here's an interesting little story, from after the easing of the blockade a couple years ago.

http://www.virtualjerusalem.com/news.php?Itemid=228

Hamas wants Israel to stop sending so many goods?

Then you've got this...

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/138671

You realize they have a higher life expectancy then Turks, and Egyptians? They have a higher literacy rate as well.

Life in the Gaza strip ain't all that bad compaired to some of their neighbors who aren't opressed by that "vile zionist nation".

 MrDwhitey wrote:
You're suggesting an entire country move? Nice.

The entire country is the size of my back yard. I mean seriously if you're in a free fire zone - leave. People do that the world over. Hell all my neighbors in Houston took a several thousand mile trip - partially on foot - to get here, and here aint no place to write home about. That was just for a job.
So answer the question. I've put up one method. How can this be fixed?
1. They are their own country but are responsible for their own actions.
2. Isreal lines up tanks and dozers and physically drives everyone out of Gaza/WB.
3. Iran nukes Israel. Israel nukes Iran.
4. Israel, en masse buys up Montgomery county in Texas and find out about the greatness of Goode's chicken fried steak. They even bring the Wailing Wall.


What else?

djones520 wrote:
Some of the responses in here are amazing...

If some guy stood outside your house and shot at it all day long, but only managed to hit you once, you wouldn't have a problem with it? You'd be ok with some jerk from across the street telling you that you couldn't respond to it? Couldn't call the cops?

Yeah, I'd probably bulldoze their house, kill their entire family, then high-five the Americans, whilst simultaneously expecting absolutely no retaliation whatsoever because the Old Testament says I'm in the right. Also, some stuff about WWII.

These CIVILIANS in Israel have this happen to their home every day.

No they don't.

 Albatross wrote:

djones520 wrote:
Some of the responses in here are amazing...

If some guy stood outside your house and shot at it all day long, but only managed to hit you once, you wouldn't have a problem with it? You'd be ok with some jerk from across the street telling you that you couldn't respond to it? Couldn't call the cops?

Yeah, I'd probably bulldoze their house, kill their entire family.

krieger wrote:Me too!

Though I suspect you forgot to use the sarcasm font.

The question shouldn't be about retaliation, the Israelis are clearly in the right to do that; but it should be about the level of retaliation.
When your retaliation operations kill so many people that your country is seen in a bad light all over the world, you've gone way too far.

 Huffy wrote:
The question shouldn't be about retaliation, the Israelis are clearly in the right to do that; but it should be about the level of retaliation.
When your retaliation operations kill so many people that your country is seen in a bad light all over the world, you've gone way too far.

However, there are many out there who do not think they have gone too far, or that the level of retaliation places them in a bad light.

 Huffy wrote:
The question shouldn't be about retaliation, the Israelis are clearly in the right to do that; but it should be about the level of retaliation.
When your retaliation operations kill so many people that your country is seen in a bad light all over the world, you've gone way too far.

Basically, this. Let's say for the sake of argument that the Israelis have every right to defend themselves - that doesn't give them license to do whatever they want. There's just no sense of proportion. Even worse, their actions are making them less secure, not more. Israel has done more to make major conflict in the Middle East inevitable than pretty much any other country, with the possible exception of the US.

 Huffy wrote:
The question shouldn't be about retaliation, the Israelis are clearly in the right to do that; but it should be about the level of retaliation.
When your retaliation operations kill so many people that your country is seen in a bad light all over the world, you've gone way too far.

Why?

 Huffy wrote:
The question shouldn't be about retaliation, the Israelis are clearly in the right to do that; but it should be about the level of retaliation.
When your retaliation operations kill so many people that your country is seen in a bad light all over the world, you've gone way too far.

Right, they haven't killed much of any one yet except a Hamas military commander. The negative reaction is the usual anti-Israeli knee jerk one.

That opinion would be funny if it wasn't so tragic.

The only thing more sad than the intractable problems in the Middle East are those that get sexually aroused at violent retaliation that results in the murder of innocents.

If my country voted a political party which the majority f the western world classes as terrorists into government I would leave and I wouldn't be surprised about my old house getting bombed.

 Glorioski wrote:
If my country voted a political party which the majority f the western world classes as terrorists into government I would leave and I wouldn't be surprised about my old house getting bombed.

I hope you don't live in Northern Ireland, then. Sinn Fein are represented in the Northern Ireland Assembly.

 Albatross wrote:

 Huffy wrote:
The question shouldn't be about retaliation, the Israelis are clearly in the right to do that; but it should be about the level of retaliation.
When your retaliation operations kill so many people that your country is seen in a bad light all over the world, you've gone way too far.

Basically, this. Let's say for the sake of argument that the Israelis have every right to defend themselves - that doesn't give them license to do whatever they want. There's just no sense of proportion. Even worse, their actions are making them less secure, not more. Israel has done more to make major conflict in the Middle East inevitable than pretty much any other country, with the possible exception of the US.

It is a specific policy of terrorists to shelter themselves near schools/hospitals. This is a)to exploit the Isrealis reluctance to fire on civilian targets (despite what the news would have you believe, the Isrealis are a civilised country and their troops do not butcher civilians needlessly) and b)to create sympathy.

Nothing funny or clever about using human shields.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

TheHammer wrote:
The only thing more sad than the intractable problems in the Middle East are those that get sexually aroused at violent retaliation that results in the murder of innocents.

The death of innocents, not the murder of innocents. This sort of gutless reaction is the reason military force of any kind is unpopular in this day and age, hence why tensions simply build and build.

 Albatross wrote:

 Glorioski wrote:
If my country voted a political party which the majority f the western world classes as terrorists into government I would leave and I wouldn't be surprised about my old house getting bombed.

I hope you don't live in Northern Ireland, then. Sinn Fein are represented in the Northern Ireland Assembly.

Not sure what purpose that weak parallel serves other than to suggest you agree with a political party being associated with a private military.

 Frazzled wrote:

 Huffy wrote:
The question shouldn't be about retaliation, the Israelis are clearly in the right to do that; but it should be about the level of retaliation.
When your retaliation operations kill so many people that your country is seen in a bad light all over the world, you've gone way too far.

Why?

Because when the game turns to you vs the world, the world tends to win. And when your reaction causes everyone to go "wow, that guy is insane/crazy" the other side is getting them to switch over to their viewpoint.

I agree that Hamas would tend to use hospitals and schools as defensive locations, but the Israelis damage their image every time they destroy one, or kill civilians in the process. The fact of the matter is through these actions opinion is turning against Israel; so they really need to be careful with the level of their response.

 Glorioski wrote:

 Albatross wrote:

 Glorioski wrote:
If my country voted a political party which the majority f the western world classes as terrorists into government I would leave and I wouldn't be surprised about my old house getting bombed.

I hope you don't live in Northern Ireland, then. Sinn Fein are represented in the Northern Ireland Assembly.

Not sure what purpose that weak parallel serves other than to suggest you agree with a political party being associated with a private military.

I think he was making the obvious point that some terrorists are in place already in a country most of us can relate to.
Northern Ireland isn't a weak parallel at all in fact I've always thought the had more in common than not.

The IRA is no longer armed and Sin Fein is not recognized by the US, the Eu, Canada and Japan as a terrorist organization. Neither have they been voted into majority government. That's a weak parallel.

 Albatross wrote:

 Huffy wrote:
The question shouldn't be about retaliation, the Israelis are clearly in the right to do that; but it should be about the level of retaliation.
When your retaliation operations kill so many people that your country is seen in a bad light all over the world, you've gone way too far.

Basically, this. Let's say for the sake of argument that the Israelis have every right to defend themselves - that doesn't give them license to do whatever they want. There's just no sense of proportion. Even worse, their actions are making them less secure, not more. Israel has done more to make major conflict in the Middle East inevitable than pretty much any other country, with the possible exception of the US.

The Israelis have been under attack from the Palestinians and their neighbouring Arab countries ever since the UN have voted them into existence, and have been kicking their collective buts since aproximately that time as well. The "plight" of the Palestinian people is one of their own making. If they hadn't attacked the Israelis in the first place, they would have their own independent little nation. If they would put down their weapons and didn't elect terrorists as their representatives, they would probably also have an independent Palestinian nation by now.

Under those circumstances, my sympathy for the Palestinians is less than overwhelming...

Roll back a little. Since the UN voted who into existence?

TheHammer wrote:
The only thing more sad than the intractable problems in the Middle East are those that get sexually aroused at violent retaliation that results in the murder of innocents.

Thats the only thing you can think of thats more sad? I can think of many.
1. Dropping that last slice of pizza.
2. Dropping my hamburger and watching in shock as Rodney appears from nowhere and eats it.
3. Witnessing in person my absolute inability to type.
4. Not placing in my tournament tonight.

Warfare in the ME is a constant since well, people.

 AustonT wrote:
Roll back a little. Since the UN voted who into existence?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UN_Partition_Plan

Voting on this occurred 29 November 1947, Israel was attacked the very next day.