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 BlkTom wrote:

As soon as his 20 man blob are crushed by a sweeping advance at that Init 3 by a 5 man Assault squad, he will wish he had a Commissar and Stubborn. As soon as he has a Chimera blow up and kill all of his Guard in it in one shot, or the few that are left run out of that 12" Order range of the CCS, he will see mech doesn't mean your guys are invincible and are really just as fragile. All you do in mech is take away bolters. In his foot list, if he plays against a smart player or someone fielding a sniper rifle that kills his commander or CCS squad, he will watch helplessly as his men run off of the board because he has no one to issue 'GBitF' after they take 25% casualties. The Commissars means those blobs stay around, and you use 'GBitF' as a last resort... and if your in Order Range. Heck, he might as well consider a Regimental banner at that point, as you can use that re-roll first.

Every lists have risks, you give and take. But a good player mitigates his weaknesses and plays to his strengths. Your /vastly/ overestimating Guard to 'run away and get back to shooting'. They do not have ATSKNF. They are not Marines. Your also vastly underestimating the ability of a blob to put hits in CC on the enemy, deal with challenges (you should have plenty of re-rolls), and the simple fact that if you can hit and kill a Marine Sergeant who is at Init 1 with a PF at Init 3 with a power sword or even a pistol+CCW, you win. Forcing armor saves is a valid tactic, you just have to be able to get those hit and get those wounds to do it.

You're advocating spending 70 pts on a Ld boost in a 500 pt game? That may be a point of view, it may even be valid for some play styles. But you're kitting your Guardsmen for CC and telling me I should play to my strengths? That's the definition of "ridiculous".

We're not playing Counter-Strike here, it's not that straightforward to take an AWP and snipe someone out of the game, much less a character with LOS and an invul save. If an enemy gets a precision hit with a sniper, smart money says he's going to take out some meltas or plasmas who can't LOS, and whose loss is a large blow to the unit's effectiveness. And if the enemy is taking enough snipers to kill my commander, he's just brought such a poor list that I'd be perfectly happy with that. Sweeping advances are the obvious drawback of my plan, which saves loads and loads of points. And what do I do, roll off against Marines with a -1 modifier? I'm down with that. And by the way, if the enemy is in melee with you in more than one point of the table, you're likely losing anyway, not that the Commissar will change much about that. I prefer to stick to battles I can win-which means ranged combat. Trust me, I've never beaten anyone in combat with IG, except Tau FWs who got overwhelmed by numbers. Try taking Orks with such a blob. You're also overestimating their worth in challenges, regular sergeants without any upgrades are just as good (or should I say bad?) as Commissars. Your only point with some merit is the remark about ATSKNF, that's the ideal setup, but alas, only possible at higher point limits.

Griddlelol, I agree with you on every point in your last post. MSU is also a great idea, significantly less risky than mine for just a few more points.

golan, SM are a good ally if you go foot, so definitely a good idea to include them. Let us know how things work for you. Good luck!

Which list do you think is better?

List #1:

CCS, 80pts - Vox, Company Standard, Melta

Troops #1: Infantry Platoon
PCS, 30pts
'Blob' (Squads #1 and #2 combined), 180pts - Commissar, Vox, 2 Lascannons

Troops #2: Infantry Platoon
PCS, 30pts
'Blob' (Squads #1 and #2 combined), 180pts - Commissar, Vox, 2 Lascannons

Total 500pts, 57 soldiers.

List #2:

CCS, 100pts - Vox, Company Standard, 2 Plasmas

Troops #1: Infantry Platoon
PCS, 45pts - 3 Flamers
'Blob' (Squads #1 and #2 combined), 155pts - Vox, Melta, 2 Lascannons

Troops #2: Infantry Platoon
PCS, 45pts - 3 Flamers
'Blob' (Squads #1 and #2 combined), 155pts - Vox, Melta, 2 Lascannons

Total 500pts, 55 soldiers.

So, which list do you think would be better from the above two?

The second one by far. Commissars won't do much for you at 500 pts. If you're that worried about your units breaking and running, simply split the blobs into two 10-man squads.

Another two options:

List #1:

CCS, 100pts - Vox, Company Standard, 2 Plasmas

Troops #1: Infantry Platoon
PCS, 45pts - 3 Flamers
'Blob' (Squads #1 and #2 combined), 155pts - Vox, Melta, 2 Lascannons

Troops #2: Infantry Platoon
PCS, 45pts - 3 Flamers
'Blob' (Squads #1 and #2 combined), 155pts - Vox, Melta, 2 Lascannons

Total 500pts, 55 soldiers.

List #2:

CCS, 100pts - Vox, Company Standard, 2 Plasmas

Troops #1: Infantry Platoon
PCS, 50pts - 4 Flamers
IS, 75pts - Vox, Lascannon
IS, 75pts - Vox, Lascannon

Troops #2: Infantry Platoon
PCS, 50pts - 4 Flamers
IS, 75pts - Vox, Lascannon
IS, 75pts - Vox, Lascannon

Total 500pts, 55 soldiers.

Which would you prefer?

The point costs are wrong again.

20-man "blob" w/Vox, melta and 2 Lascannons should cost 145 pts.
IS w/Vox and Lascannon should cost 70 pts.

The choice between these lists is a matter of taste. I would be leaning toward the first list, because I like taking risks and not spending a lot of points on a Vox network, but that's just a subjective opinion. Your call.

500 pts of guard? I bet they can squeeze in at least 3 chimera hulls! Broken!

i personally woulnt get the flamers, becouse i dislike them (i would lean towards grenade launchers.) If you play against tyranids or orks i said nothing. try to fit in more melta (optimise your vox)