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 dogma wrote:
At any rate, the new Pope weighed in last April.

He spoke from his office then which is different from his office now.

 Manchu wrote:

 dogma wrote:
At any rate, the new Pope weighed in last April.

He spoke from his office then which is different from his office now.

Yes, he is now also serving 5 million Catholic British citizens, including some of the Falkland islanders.

 Hulksmash wrote:

How did I do?

Poorly.

 Manchu wrote:
He spoke from his office then which is different from his office now.

So, when he said "...go and kiss this land which is ours, and seem to us far away..." he was using "ours" to refer to Catholics?

I didn't realize that the Holy See had a claim to the Falklands.

 dogma wrote:
I didn't realize that the Holy See had a claim to the Falklands.

Why be obtuse with me? He spoke as an Argentine prelate then; he's not an Argentine prelate anymore.

Its because you have a romanticised view of the fight against colonialism, we're oppressing the Irish and stealing stuff off Argentina, etc. Several times on this board I've seen people express surprise that there are still bombings and killings in Northern Ireland even from those I would have thought were well informed. So when I see Americans talking about feeing the Irish from British oppression or saying that we're wrongfully holding the Falklands under colonial rule, I have to guess ignorance, because a history book would show it's a lot more complicated than that. There's very little justification for Argentina to have the Falklands any more than others that have held it. If it was a matter of proximity then Alaska would presumably belong to Canada, actually there's a history behind ownership.

Ratbarf wrote:Why are you wary of British Nationalism?


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I mean the only times that the British aren't cool is when they're going about hating themselves because they're awesome.

Or when their worhtless figureheads decide to go on a very expensive vacation paid for with my tax dollars.

I really do not understand how, after that referendum, anyone except for Britain can even hope to make a claim to the Falklands anymore.

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
Its because you have a romanticised view of the fight against colonialism, we're oppressing the Irish and stealing stuff off Argentina, etc. Several times on this board I've seen people express surprise that there are still bombings and killings in Northern Ireland even from those I would have thought were well informed. So when I see Americans talking about feeing the Irish from British oppression or saying that we're wrongfully holding the Falklands under colonial rule, I have to guess ignorance, because a history book would show it's a lot more complicated than that. There's very little justification for Argentina to have the Falklands any more than others that have held it. If it was a matter of proximity then Alaska would presumably belong to Canada, actually there's a history behind ownership.

Not seeing anyone here from the US supporting Argentina's claim. Not sure what you're talking about.

 azazel the cat wrote:
I really do not understand how, after that referendum, anyone except for Britain can even hope to make a claim to the Falklands anymore.

The Argentines may think of the current occupants as British squatters who need to go along with British rule generally. In that case, a referendum is meaningless. Of course, I can't see such an eviction as getting too much traction internationally.


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 Frazzled wrote:
Not seeing anyone here from the US supporting Argentina's claim. Not sure what you're talking about.

This poster flies an American flag:

chaos0xomega wrote:
(In case you can't tell, I support the Argentine claim over the islands, even if its only because I find the situation highly amusing)

The long and short of it is that some Falklanders are in their ninth generation on the islands.They voted overwhelmingly to retain their British heritage and should be free to live how they wish.

@Howard A Treesong

Oh I'm glad it was brought to my attention that I "have a romanticised view of the fight against colonialism, you're oppressing the Irish and stealing stuff off Argentina, etc.". Thank you.

I've personally been equally surprised by people flying the british flag's lack of understanding of US law, the constitution, and amendments making sweeping declaration about gun control. Don't get me started on comments made regarding the Israeli/Palestinian conflict.

Add in the fact that to this point the only person on Argentina's side is on it to amuse himself in this thread (likely not actually on their side) and said nothing about oppression or Ireland and tell me you didn't go a little overboard.....

It really does seem to be sabre-rattling - essentially to draw attention away from the yawning void that is the Argentine economy, however, I don't think the overtures that Argentina are making should be ignored - I wouldn't be surprised if desperation meant eventually that the sabre that is getting "rattled" eventually gets drawn.

And I fail to see how the Falklands conflict, and the threat of a second war, however likely or unlikely the prospect, is in any way "highly amusing".

 Hulksmash wrote:
@Howard A Treesong

Oh I'm glad it was brought to my attention that I "have a romanticised view of the fight against colonialism, you're oppressing the Irish and stealing stuff off Argentina, etc.". Thank you.

I've personally been equally surprised by people flying the british flag's lack of understanding of US law, the constitution, and amendments making sweeping declaration about gun control. Don't get me started on comments made regarding the Israeli/Palestinian conflict.

Add in the fact that to this point the only person on Argentina's side is on it to amuse himself in this thread (likely not actually on their side) and said nothing about oppression or Ireland and tell me you didn't go a little overboard.....

Free the Welsh! Oppression! Oppression! Witness the violence inherent in the system!

Well know you've gone and ruined my post Fraz, hope you're happy

Forget the Welsh, what about the Cornish? They even have their own terrorists, the Cornish Liberation Army.

Last time the Argies invaded, there was little or no military presence on the FI.
We have Typhoons there now, and type 45 destroyers, plus I wouldn't be at all surprised if a sub was lurking about with a load of cruise missiles on board.
Not to mention the soldiers.
The Argentine military is in a worse state than last time.
We may not have the carriers any more, but we don't need them as we have an actual airfield this time.
Plus the fact that a naval landing would be a touch tricky as the beaches are still littered with all the land mines that they left lying around last time they visited.

Here's me visiting a few years ago, I was surveying for oil at the time.
That's me in the middle

The pub.

The problem is with the Foreign Office. They are useless and sit about doing little to nothing.

The Uk claim goes beyond self determination, if you look at how and when the islands were settled Argentina frankly has no claim, yet they are making headway in the international community. Yes this is mostly due to the fact that its easier to cheat the Argentines out of the oil wealth than the UK, and backers of an invasion will expect to be paid in oil rights. Nevertheless this doesn't effect the broad popular appeal of the Argentina cause, which frankly shouldn't be there.

Sure the UK is know for historical Imperialism, but so were the Spanish. As for the legal status of the islands it is a very clear cut case, but the case is not being propagated wheras the Argentine claim is shouted far and wide. A one sided argument gathers momentum. What is odd is that the press refer to it is as 'spat' even though one side says little to nothing. It would be naive to consider that the Argentine claim could be educated away, but at least if the reidiculous nature of the claim is more widely known less pressure on the UK would result.

The Falklands are used by the Argentinian government in times of national stress to direct the people's anger outwards.

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
Forget the Welsh, what about the Cornish? They even have their own terrorists, the Cornish Liberation Army.

The whole thing sounds corny to me.

 Manchu wrote:

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 Frazzled wrote:
Not seeing anyone here from the US supporting Argentina's claim. Not sure what you're talking about.

This poster flies an American flag:

chaos0xomega wrote:
(In case you can't tell, I support the Argentine claim over the islands, even if its only because I find the situation highly amusing)

I thought he was No True American.

On topic, I only have an understanding of the entire situation I'd describe as "slightly above that of an average 'merican".

Having that been said, I'm on neither sides side. I say they belong where they want to belong.

The inhabitants of the islands want to stick with the British. That's good enough for me.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
The Falklands are used by the Argentinian government in times of national stress to direct the people's anger outwards.

Indeed but there is more to it now. You have to add that to oil, plus the poor state of both economies, a hostile White House, short sighted politicians and Civil servants in London, a one sided campaign of rhetoric and a lack of aircraft carriers.

 Orlanth wrote:
The problem is with the Foreign Office. They are useless and sit about doing little to nothing.

The Uk claim goes beyond self determination, if you look at how and when the islands were settled Argentina frankly has no claim, yet they are making headway in the international community. Yes this is mostly due to the fact that its easier to cheat the Argentines out of the oil wealth than the UK, and backers of an invasion will expect to be paid in oil rights. Nevertheless this doesn't effect the broad popular appeal of the Argentina cause, which frankly shouldn't be there.

Sure the UK is know for historical Imperialism, but so were the Spanish. As for the legal status of the islands it is a very clear cut case, but the case is not being propagated wheras the Argentine claim is shouted far and wide. A one sided argument gathers momentum. What is odd is that the press refer to it is as 'spat' even though one side says little to nothing. It would be naive to consider that the Argentine claim could be educated away, but at least if the reidiculous nature of the claim is more widely known less pressure on the UK would result.

You're thinking Argentina is making headway? I don't see that, not a meaningful way beyond protest level nonsense.

Just keep your troops and aircraft safely bunkered in and punch anything in the nose that gets uppity. That should do the trick. After all, its the legions that make the law legal.

Argentina has no real hankering for war. After all IIRC but they've lost every war they've been in.

So the Argentinian claim that was based on "its close to us so its ours", no has no moral force to go with its no legal force. I just get the impression that Ms. Kirchner is stirring the pot to detract from trouble at home.

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
Forget the Welsh, what about the Cornish? They even have their own terrorists, the Cornish Liberation Army.

I can't remember who it was but when a journalist from the UK was talking to the Taliban pre-9/11 this cropped up. The Taliban member looked very thoughtful and asked if the Cornish needed any help in their rebellion

 Frazzled wrote:
After all IIRC but they've lost every war they've been in.

IIRC the Falklands was the only foreign war that Argentia was ever involved with, aside from being a token ally in WWII. Lots of civil wars though.

 Orlanth wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
The Falklands are used by the Argentinian government in times of national stress to direct the people's anger outwards.

Indeed but there is more to it now. You have to add that to oil, plus the poor state of both economies, a hostile White House, short sighted politicians and Civil servants in London, a one sided campaign of rhetoric and a lack of aircraft carriers.

Aircraft carriers would be needed to take back the islands after a successful invasion. But looking at the state of the Argentine Navy, how would they ever manage to invade?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentine_Navy

This will continue to be a war of words.

And there was me thinking the UK armed forces were under the financial cosh!

 Hulksmash wrote:


I've personally been equally surprised by people flying the british flag's lack of understanding of US law, the constitution, and amendments making sweeping declaration about gun control.

Actually, I think most of us understand the legal and emotional attachment to firearms, it just seems a little silly. Especially when you consider that the times change (that's what they do best) and that a constitution is just words, written by men centuries ago, and not handed down by gods.

Don't get me started on comments made regarding the Israeli/Palestinian conflict.

Americans are by far typically the worst culprits when it comes to shallow and juvenile analyses of that particular conflict. Do you deny this?

 Frazzled wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:
@Howard A Treesong

Oh I'm glad it was brought to my attention that I "have a romanticised view of the fight against colonialism, you're oppressing the Irish and stealing stuff off Argentina, etc.". Thank you.

I've personally been equally surprised by people flying the british flag's lack of understanding of US law, the constitution, and amendments making sweeping declaration about gun control. Don't get me started on comments made regarding the Israeli/Palestinian conflict.

Add in the fact that to this point the only person on Argentina's side is on it to amuse himself in this thread (likely not actually on their side) and said nothing about oppression or Ireland and tell me you didn't go a little overboard.....

Free the Welsh! Oppression! Oppression! Witness the violence inherent in the system!

Dont joke about such things without considering that there may be people on here who want a Wales free of total control from England.

So this thread specifically asks about international opinions on this, and now people are complaining that international members are posting with different opinions?

 Albatross wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:


I've personally been equally surprised by people flying the british flag's lack of understanding of US law, the constitution, and amendments making sweeping declaration about gun control.

Actually, I think most of us understand the legal and emotional attachment to firearms, it just seems a little silly. Especially when you consider that the times change (that's what they do best) and that a constitution is just words, written by men centuries ago, and not handed down by gods.

Perfect example of you not really having a clue why firearms are really important.

They are a deterrent against, and a tool for removing, tyrannical government. The danger of which is very present and always will be.