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Well...at least not direct from GW

Some...people...I know...were able to find GW's pretty much entire catalog since at least the mid 90's on PDF's way back in 2005/2006 and have just been adding to it since then, finding GW's half-hearted attempts to enter the digital market so late as to be irrelevant, overpriced, and incomplete.

Everything is incomplete until it's finished. Irrelevant? Hardly, I use the digitial codexs in my current games, so that makes no sense.

Overpriced is up to you.

 Moopy wrote:

 Aerethan wrote:


Digital content is still not worth physical content. The overhead alone should be reflected in the discounted price. The cost of paper, printing, shipping etc.

Digital goods have really a single cost: development. 3d files don't cost a damn thing to distribute, and for the few places that do charge fees(like iTunes) those fees are quite small.

I disagree.

Digital is better in several ways. Multiple codexs, that don't fall apart with use, get transported in one place with far less weight. They come with extra content. They also get updated, so I don't have to lug around the errata or have to try and convince someone that the errata exists to begin with, which has happened too many times for my liking.

So, yes, they are worth the cost. And there are upkeep costs for GW, be they corrections or the additions of new units. When GW comes up with it's own army builder that gets it right, and allows for plug and play information from the content you already own, digital codexs will become even more helpful to the player. For me this is not a matter of if, but when, since they've really gotten on the ball in releasing quality digital products.

I agree. Starting with Dark angels I have switched to ipad dex's they are so much nicer to use. no more flipping through books. I will be buying all codex's through itunes from now on. no only if i could get a rulebook on my ipad.

Cost is purely up to GW to decide and the purchaser to decide if they are willing to pay it, bleating on forums about it just makes you look like a child. It's not an expensive hobby, I have several others that make it seem quite cheap. There are plenty of other games if you don't like the ones that GW make so just save your energy and play those instead.

The real problem is the iOS only route, I would be happy (ok not happy but I'd pay it) to pay £30 for a version distributed through Google Play, Kindle, etc but I don't want an iPad.

I don't get why they won't support other tablet or PC OS, there are plenty of universal routes without any OS tie in that support all of the features of iBooks.*

 nwns wrote:
Cost is purely up to GW to decide and the purchaser to decide if they are willing to pay it, bleating on forums about it just makes you look like a child. It's not an expensive hobby, I have several others that make it seem quite cheap. There are plenty of other games if you don't like the ones that GW make so just save your energy and play those instead.

The real problem is the iOS only route, I would be happy (ok not happy but I'd pay it) to pay £30 for a version distributed through Google Play, Kindle, etc but I don't want an iPad.

I don't get why they won't support other tablet or PC OS, there are plenty of universal routes without any OS tie in that support all of the features of iBooks.*

Sorry, I'm a little confused by this post... you deride people for complaining on forums...and then complain about one of the things others are commonly complaining about.

I know but hypocrisy is such a human failing.

I just think that price isn't a valid criticism in a competitive market as it will settle to what people will pay.

 nwns wrote:
I know but hypocrisy is such a human failing.

I just think that price isn't a valid criticism in a competitive market as it will settle to what people will pay.

But surely if people are criticizing it then the market is saying "the price is too high" and a company should stop and look at that and lower prices next time, instead GW raise prices.

Uh, No?

X amount of people complain about the price, Y amount buy the product, and Z amount complain but buy it anyway.

X>0 doesn't mean lower prices - you need to know Y and Z.

The worst thing that could come from GW's charging of full price for digital books is others might see it as an example and say "Hey, we want more money too!"
It's not going to hamper thier sales and die out. People are, and will continue to pay full price for the digital codex's.

CDs were massively cheaper to produce than records, didn't stop the companies putting the prices as high as the market would stand. Ebooks are at a ridiculous price but it's the price they are so you buy them or you don't. Eventually they'll come down or they'll stay where they are and inflation will make them cheaper.

I bought Death from the Skies when it came out as I wanted the rules, it was £20 which is what? four pints in a pub? About what it costs for my daily commute? A couple of bottles of wine? Gaming is a luxury and once you have the basics it's nice and cheap to play, you don't need the new stuff, you just want it.

I am aware that these are just my views and I have no desire to change anyone else's :-)

insaniak wrote:

 nwns wrote:
Cost is purely up to GW to decide and the purchaser to decide if they are willing to pay it, bleating on forums about it just makes you look like a child. It's not an expensive hobby, I have several others that make it seem quite cheap. There are plenty of other games if you don't like the ones that GW make so just save your energy and play those instead.

The real problem is the iOS only route, I would be happy (ok not happy but I'd pay it) to pay £30 for a version distributed through Google Play, Kindle, etc but I don't want an iPad.

I don't get why they won't support other tablet or PC OS, there are plenty of universal routes without any OS tie in that support all of the features of iBooks.*

Sorry, I'm a little confused by this post... you deride people for complaining on forums...and then complain about one of the things others are commonly complaining about.

nwns wrote:I know but hypocrisy is such a human failing.

I just think that price isn't a valid criticism in a competitive market as it will settle to what people will pay.

But this is still largely a matter of cost. There's nothing stopping you from buying iOS devices to read the digital GW products. To be fair it would potentially require you to carry an extra device with you, but an iPad is roughly the size of a printed codex so this doesn't seem like a big issue. Bleating about carrying an extra 300g makes you look, I believe, like a child.

Unfortunately I do have a rather childish attitude towards Apple products but cost doesn't come into it.

Like I said hypocrisy is in each and every one of us, I don't feel the need to defend how I am

I will gladly pay the codex price for the digital copy. I feel i get more value for my money.

The price doesn't bother me so much as the reliance on iOS. Android tablet sales are quickly catching up to Apple and it's a bit silly to leave a potential market untapped.

lets all be honest, we all know if these were released as a regular PDF, in about 5 minustes it would be on the net and downloadable..... as iBook, i cant even view it on my computer... sure i can SS on the ipad and all but...... tedious very very tedious
now im not sure if the android version has the same security (for GW) as apples does (any info on this would be great) but selling an EBook that you can copy paste then just throw up as a torrent defeats the purpose just a touch... sure its great for those that want it all for nix, but thats not how a business makes money...
and to the chap that has 3 ipads on the 1 itunes BRAVO, i like this idea very much.

So, the only option on google products is PDF? They could make their own reader app easily enough. Hackers can get into apple products too....

 agnosto wrote:
The price doesn't bother me so much as the reliance on iOS. Android tablet sales are quickly catching up to Apple and it's a bit silly to leave a potential market untapped.

Android is fragmented as all hell, and Android 'customers' are 6 times less likely to purchase apps.

So to expand development apps to Android usually takes 10-15 times the effort than the unified iOS platform, and for much much less customers reached. You have to program so much conditional logic based upon OS, or pay a 3rd party for a unified platform software to build in and then license them for a piece of the pie. It is a real factor of diminishing rewards.

Apple has high rate of purchases of apps, as well as a wonderful OS and hardware to develop for. Android is a real bear for developers because Android devices won't force updates and hardware quickly can't support updates so you have to develop for 2-3 year old out of date devices and is a real waste of resources. Every company needs to decide for themselves if the risk and exponential effort is worth the reward. I totally see why companies choose to be iOS only from personal experience with mobile development.

nkelsch wrote:

 agnosto wrote:
The price doesn't bother me so much as the reliance on iOS. Android tablet sales are quickly catching up to Apple and it's a bit silly to leave a potential market untapped.

Android is fragmented as all hell, and Android 'customers' are 6 times less likely to purchase apps.

So to expand development apps to Android usually takes 10-15 times the effort than the unified iOS platform, and for much much less customers reached. You have to program so much conditional logic based upon OS, or pay a 3rd party for a unified platform software to build in and then license them for a piece of the pie. It is a real factor of diminishing rewards.

Apple has high rate of purchases of apps, as well as a wonderful OS and hardware to develop for. Android is a real bear for developers because Android devices won't force updates and hardware quickly can't support updates so you have to develop for 2-3 year old out of date devices and is a real waste of resources. Every company needs to decide for themselves if the risk and exponential effort is worth the reward. I totally see why companies choose to be iOS only from personal experience with mobile development.

You're right, no one is making money off of android products that's why there are so many of them and so many are sold while Apple is losing market share ( at least according to the latest market research by such organizations as ABI); google's also becoming more proactive in cleaning up their App Store. Besides all of that, they could easily partner with Amazon and have them do all of the hard work or some other company. As much as their charging for the digital content vs the discounts they give wholesalers and FLGSs, they'd still come out ahead.

 ausYenLoWang wrote:
lets all be honest, we all know if these were released as a regular PDF, in about 5 minustes it would be on the net and downloadable..... as iBook, i cant even view it on my computer... sure i can SS on the ipad and all but...... tedious very very tedious
now im not sure if the android version has the same security (for GW) as apples does (any info on this would be great) but selling an EBook that you can copy paste then just throw up as a torrent defeats the purpose just a touch... sure its great for those that want it all for nix, but thats not how a business makes money...
and to the chap that has 3 ipads on the 1 itunes BRAVO, i like this idea very much.

EVERY single 40k codex is up as a PDF with about 2 weeks of it's release. iPads haven't done a damn thing to stem that tide. GW selling legit PDF's at reasonable prices would curb that at least to some degree.

People thinking that the books aren't already pirated have no clue as to exactly how much media content is pirated.

Hypothetically I can throw any of those PDF's on any tablet right now, and they were free. GW could have sold them, and made some money, but instead they charge full price for a format that I can't use because I have the sense to use a better, less expensive tablet.

GW's loss, not mine.



Companies today can either find NEW ways to monetize media products, or they can watch as file sharing runs them down and slaughters them. The problem here is that file sharing as it stands is not going anywhere. TPB has been attacked constantly by several governments, and yet it stands stronger than ever.

ISP's can threaten all they want, but if piracy is as widespread as the FBI would have us believe, then ISP's will see themselves shutting off something in the area of 60% of their customers. Far too much money to be worthwhile.

If GW did a type of Kickstarter where people "bought" their codex ahead of time, they'd know straight away whether it's worth putting in the effort to develop for a platform or not.

I cannot afford to buy an iDevice, after buying an Android tablet and a Windows laptop.

 pities2004 wrote:
Didn't they update the storm raven and storm talon into the digital space marine book?

Yes, the digital SM codex was updated with the new rules & changes.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
A PDF at the same cost as a printed book? And that printed book is already far too expensive for what it is just due to it being "niche"? <snip> After looking at the GW site......wait, what? How in the feth do you preorder a PDF?! How does that even work? And why?

They're not PDFs. They're actually apps that provide a level of interactivity that you'll never see in an Adobe product. But they are in no way less expensive than the physical version of the product.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
And I have to buy an Ipad just to look at it?

Or you could buy an iPad for other reasons like the rest of us did and see this as just another option to get your 40k/WHFB rules stuff.

 Moopy wrote:
Everything is incomplete until it's finished. Irrelevant? Hardly, I use the digitial codexs in my current games, so that makes no sense.

 Vaktathi wrote:
...finding GW's half-hearted attempts to enter the digital market so late as to be irrelevant, overpriced, and incomplete.

I see it as incomplete as they haven't put out all the current books. Ogre Kingdoms and Tomb Kings, for example are in the current WHFB edition but don't have an iBook equivelant. Not releasing a digital version of DitS at the same time the physical book was released is also an example of GW poorly handling the digital side of things.

 nwns wrote:
The real problem is the iOS only route, I would be happy (ok not happy but I'd pay it) to pay £30 for a version distributed through Google Play, Kindle, etc but I don't want an iPad. I don't get why they won't support other tablet or PC OS, there are plenty of universal routes without any OS tie in that support all of the features of iBooks.

Development costs (paying coders to code) is expensive. The other factor is that GW is serious about controlling what happens to their product once it is released into the wild. It's a hell of a lot easier to do that with iTunes than it is with other services.

 nwns wrote:
I bought Death from the Skies when it came out as I wanted the rules, it was £20 which is what? four pints in a pub? About what it costs for my daily commute? A couple of bottles of wine? Gaming is a luxury and once you have the basics it's nice and cheap to play, you don't need the new stuff, you just want it.

You're making an apples to oranges argument here but the last bit is spot on.

 agnosto wrote:
You're right, no one is making money off of android products that's why there are so many of them and so many are sold while Apple is losing market share ( at least according to the latest market research by such organizations as ABI).

That's exactly what the Windows 8 people at Microsoft are saying.

 Aerethan wrote:
EVERY single 40k codex is up as a PDF with about 2 weeks of it's release. iPads haven't done a damn thing to stem that tide. GW selling legit PDF's at reasonable prices would curb that at least to some degree.

There is a logic fallacy in here somewhere... if people download PDFs for free already, why would they start to pay $50+ to buy it instead? I suppose there would be a few, but you'd really have to stretch your definitions to call it "stemming the tide". People torrent the PDFs because they are free, not because they don't have an iPad.

If it was my fault that this went so far off topic I apologise!!

I'm glad GW made Death from the Skies available as a digital download I just wish they'd now support different platforms. They won't so I'll continue to buy the physical ones unless I don't want to.

 Aerethan wrote:

 ausYenLoWang wrote:
lets all be honest, we all know if these were released as a regular PDF, in about 5 minustes it would be on the net and downloadable..... as iBook, i cant even view it on my computer... sure i can SS on the ipad and all but...... tedious very very tedious
now im not sure if the android version has the same security (for GW) as apples does (any info on this would be great) but selling an EBook that you can copy paste then just throw up as a torrent defeats the purpose just a touch... sure its great for those that want it all for nix, but thats not how a business makes money...
and to the chap that has 3 ipads on the 1 itunes BRAVO, i like this idea very much.

EVERY single 40k codex is up as a PDF with about 2 weeks of it's release. iPads haven't done a damn thing to stem that tide. GW selling legit PDF's at reasonable prices would curb that at least to some degree.

People thinking that the books aren't already pirated have no clue as to exactly how much media content is pirated.

Hypothetically I can throw any of those PDF's on any tablet right now, and they were free. GW could have sold them, and made some money, but instead they charge full price for a format that I can't use because I have the sense to use a better, less expensive tablet.

GW's loss, not mine.



Companies today can either find NEW ways to monetize media products, or they can watch as file sharing runs them down and slaughters them. The problem here is that file sharing as it stands is not going anywhere. TPB has been attacked constantly by several governments, and yet it stands stronger than ever.

ISP's can threaten all they want, but if piracy is as widespread as the FBI would have us believe, then ISP's will see themselves shutting off something in the area of 60% of their customers. Far too much money to be worthwhile.

a better less expensive table? .. might be cheaper but better, thats a bit of a call, and how would an IPad stem the tide of cheap ass people who pirate the hell out of the codexs to be cool and have them all? thatll never happen. but lets be honest i did a google for the codex's as a pdf, and OMG they are shoddy cheap rubbish scans 90% of the time with poor lighting, shocking coloring etc etc etc, now if GW already made it in the PDF format then they make it easier, and people will maybe d/l a shoddy version then get sick of that and buy the real thing, that wouldnt happen if the current digital dex's were just able to be copy/pasted.

 agnosto wrote:


You're right, no one is making money off of android products that's why there are so many of them and so many are sold while Apple is losing market share ( at least according to the latest market research by such organizations as ABI); google's also becoming more proactive in cleaning up their App Store. Besides all of that, they could easily partner with Amazon and have them do all of the hard work or some other company. As much as their charging for the digital content vs the discounts they give wholesalers and FLGSs, they'd still come out ahead.

I didn't say you can't make a profit on Android's framework, It is just harder to make a profit and less return on your investment due to the extra effort required. So for a company who is primarily not a software developer, I don't see any reason why they would want to pretend they are and make the effort to make a consistent product across the multiple formats. Lots of companies who are not GW choose single platforms and make plenty of money without entertaining the android market.

Google needs to be more pro-active on locking down hardware developers and forcing more consistent software updates. The issue isn;t with hacked Androids, it is that some POS garbage hardware manufacturer makes a cheap-smart phone which uses a specific OS, they never update it and you have some person walking around with a 3 year old OS which cannot be updated due to hardware layer issues. So now as an app developer, I have to make my app work for all those random versions of the core OS, and still have to have minimum requirements which leads to the inevitable: "Hey! My device is not supported, Why doesn't <Company X> make their stuff for all android! they don't want my money!"

It is a nightmare, unless you pimp your stuff out through a 3rd party framework which is expensive to license, or something like Amazon. And Amazon would be less feature complete. Many of the things people like about the new Digidex you lose in other formats. They basically would need to develop a custom multimedia app not just latch onto an ebook format.

And GW does have a product for the PC and Android market... It is called a physical paper rulebook. The issue is there are some who just want it 'for free' regardless what you do.

 ausYenLoWang wrote:

 Aerethan wrote:

 ausYenLoWang wrote:
lets all be honest, we all know if these were released as a regular PDF, in about 5 minustes it would be on the net and downloadable..... as iBook, i cant even view it on my computer... sure i can SS on the ipad and all but...... tedious very very tedious
now im not sure if the android version has the same security (for GW) as apples does (any info on this would be great) but selling an EBook that you can copy paste then just throw up as a torrent defeats the purpose just a touch... sure its great for those that want it all for nix, but thats not how a business makes money...
and to the chap that has 3 ipads on the 1 itunes BRAVO, i like this idea very much.

EVERY single 40k codex is up as a PDF with about 2 weeks of it's release. iPads haven't done a damn thing to stem that tide. GW selling legit PDF's at reasonable prices would curb that at least to some degree.

People thinking that the books aren't already pirated have no clue as to exactly how much media content is pirated.

Hypothetically I can throw any of those PDF's on any tablet right now, and they were free. GW could have sold them, and made some money, but instead they charge full price for a format that I can't use because I have the sense to use a better, less expensive tablet.

GW's loss, not mine.



Companies today can either find NEW ways to monetize media products, or they can watch as file sharing runs them down and slaughters them. The problem here is that file sharing as it stands is not going anywhere. TPB has been attacked constantly by several governments, and yet it stands stronger than ever.

ISP's can threaten all they want, but if piracy is as widespread as the FBI would have us believe, then ISP's will see themselves shutting off something in the area of 60% of their customers. Far too much money to be worthwhile.

a better less expensive table? .. might be cheaper but better, thats a bit of a call, and how would an IPad stem the tide of cheap ass people who pirate the hell out of the codexs to be cool and have them all? thatll never happen. but lets be honest i did a google for the codex's as a pdf, and OMG they are shoddy cheap rubbish scans 90% of the time with poor lighting, shocking coloring etc etc etc, now if GW already made it in the PDF format then they make it easier, and people will maybe d/l a shoddy version then get sick of that and buy the real thing, that wouldnt happen if the current digital dex's were just able to be copy/pasted.

The last 3 40k codices that were scanned into PDF's are near flawless.

And not all piracy is done because people are cheap. In the case of PDF's, not only are they free(that's the illegal part) but they take up exactly zero room in your house. My kids can't rip pages out of them, the dog can't pee on them, the wife can't accidentally spill coffee on them.

With PDFs, I can take my entire library with me and use them on damn near any device or anyones computer should the need arise.

And for each one that I have, I would have paid for them. But GW doesn't offer the product that I want.

The issue is there are some who just want it 'for free' regardless what you do.

Sadly, that is true. But that is true of any industry really. There will always be shrink. The question is not how do you stop it outright(as that is impossible) but rather how do you convert thieves into customers.

Clearly they want your product, so find a middle ground. And then of course some people can't be won over at all and will pirate it anyway, those people are douchebags.

nkelsch wrote:
Android is fragmented as all hell, and Android 'customers' are 6 times less likely to purchase apps.

There's a difference between "Android customers" and "GW customers who own an Android device". Just because Android customers are 6 times less likely to purchase apps doesn't mean a GW customer with an Android device would be 6 times less inclined to buy an ebook than an GW customer with an Apple device.

Hell, I've owned an iPhone since the 3GS and I've never bought an app for it, never had the need. I have, however, bought audio books and plenty of music which I use on my iPhone.

Personally I'd buy several of GW's digital books if they were available across all devices. I find myself traveling a lot these days and it affects my choices to buy printed books. I don't have an iPad, but even if I did, I would NOT be buying a digital book that can only be read on an iPad, what happens in 2 to 3 years when the iPad dies? I'm locked in to buying another iPad regardless of the fact the competition may be better (assuming iPads still exist) or I lose access to all my digital books. No thanks!

 cincydooley wrote:
I'm a really big fan of all the digital content. Ill never buy a hardcover codex again.

Active updates? Check.
Multiple codeces in one tablet? Check.
Rule quick links ? Check.

Love it.

Ability to re-sell the book later?
Ability to loan to a friend?
Ability to keep the book should GW want to get rid of it (i.e. avoid remote delitions which do happen)?
Ability to read book on anything that isn't Apple*?

Some people value those things.

I'd probably buy an e-version of the codex IF it was reasonably priced (<50% of paper, or included with paper) and was vendor agnostic (.epub, .pdf etc). But I'm never going to buy an iDevice (no memory card slot is a deal breaker) so it's a moot point.


*Because even assuming you have an iDevice anyway, will you still have one in 5 years time? 10? What if Apple change to an incompatible system (it's happened) or goes bust (it's happened) or start releasing devices that you don't like for some reason (it's happened). Vendor lock in is a very bad thing for longevity.

Herzlos wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:
I'm a really big fan of all the digital content. Ill never buy a hardcover codex again.

Active updates? Check.
Multiple codeces in one tablet? Check.
Rule quick links ? Check.

Love it.

Ability to re-sell the book later?
Ability to loan to a friend?
Ability to keep the book should GW want to get rid of it (i.e. avoid remote delitions which do happen)?
Ability to read book on anything that isn't Apple*?

Ability to re-sell the book later? - No. Then again, I don't really have the ability to sell my old codices later, either. Well, I do, technically but only for five bucks at most and with eBay/PayPal/postage fees it really isn't worth doing.

Ability to loan to a friend? - As long as you trust him/her with your iPad. I don't know about other platforms, do you have the ability to loan your Kindle eBooks to people?

Ability to keep the book should GW want to get rid of it (i.e. avoid remote delitions which do happen)? This can actually be done. You just have to make a back-up copy of your codex and keep it in a different folder "just in case". This way if you find that they've pulled some shenanigans, you can just drop the old file back in and be on your way.

Ability to read book on anything that isn't Apple*? You mean like your Microsoft Surface?

 Moopy wrote:
Everything is incomplete until it's finished.

And the sky is blue, what's your point?

They haven't bothered to digitize anything but new releases, but not otherwise existing, in-print and in-use books that already existed. The collection is incomplete, and will be for years to come most likely. This means digital copies do not remove the need to haul books around for many/most players, defeating much of the point.

Irrelevant? Hardly, I use the digitial codexs in my current games, so that makes no sense.

Irrelevant for those that have far more complete collections and have had them for many years, available to use on a far wider range of devices at a far lower price point

 Breotan wrote:

Herzlos wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:
I'm a really big fan of all the digital content. Ill never buy a hardcover codex again.

Active updates? Check.
Multiple codeces in one tablet? Check.
Rule quick links ? Check.

Love it.

Ability to re-sell the book later?
Ability to loan to a friend?
Ability to keep the book should GW want to get rid of it (i.e. avoid remote delitions which do happen)?
Ability to read book on anything that isn't Apple*?

Ability to re-sell the book later? - No. Then again, I don't really have the ability to sell my old codices later, either. Well, I do, technically but only for five bucks at most and with eBay/PayPal/postage fees it really isn't worth doing.

Ability to loan to a friend? - As long as you trust him/her with your iPad. I don't know about other platforms, do you have the ability to loan your Kindle eBooks to people?

Ability to keep the book should GW want to get rid of it (i.e. avoid remote delitions which do happen)? This can actually be done. You just have to make a back-up copy of your codex and keep it in a different folder "just in case". This way if you find that they've pulled some shenanigans, you can just drop the old file back in and be on your way.

Ability to read book on anything that isn't Apple*? You mean like your Microsoft Surface?

On Nooks you can share any given title for something like 2 weeks to someone just like loaning them a book.

Also, I'm more inclined to share a $100 piece of hardware than I am a $500 ipad.

You can still resell current edition books for a decent sum if you decide to drop the army/game.

Other readers: ANY android device, Kindle, Nook, any other device that reads PDF's, as well as PCs. Not sure(as I don't own one) but can you read your ibook on your Mac computer? Can you print out a reference sheet from it?