Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I think a lot of people need to lay off him a bit to be honest. Look Romeo is ummm eccentric to say the least but he loves the hobby as much as the rest of us. The only major difference is he owns a large company that we all know of and is the lime light a little more. This is not to condone his actions in that post in any way but I am sure we all have said things on forums in the heat of the moment instead of taking the time to settle down and think about everything first. I know for one that I have said many negative things that I should not have and I know some of you can attest to that, but does that make me a bad person..no it just makes me human. It is easy for us to forget ourselves when we are typing as the barrier we are behind tends to skewer the reality of our words but we have to remember that we are a hobby as a whole and in that one large community.

Do I think Romeo is a bad person, none what so ever, nor did I ever think I would be defending him openly in this format but I think as of late people have been more aggressive towards businesses due to the issues coming from G.W and the angst towards them. In the end we can sit there and criticize him and say we would never do that ourselves but the reality is it's different when you don't have one small forum doing it but in fact have a whole world poking at you. No matter who you are you will take it personally and though he is a business owner and should be prepared for such criticism he is still a human being and no matter what the latter will trump the first one every time.

I tend to agree with that Emp... Romeo doesn't do himself any favors writing stuff like that, that's for sure, but it isn't fair to discount all the positive things he does just because you don't like him.

He is definitely a polarizing figure in the hobby, but it has become 'en vogue' to go absolutely nuts on him more than anyone else that I know of. Even Ward, Kirby and Mandelbaum don't get the level of vitriol and aggression Romeo does.

This makes it very difficult for threads on him to exist here as they all seem to very rapidly get to the point where rule #1 is irretrievably out the window. I hope that doesn't happen here. His actions and policies can be discussed without condemning him without reservation as 100% no good people.

I also like the guy because of his support for Toys for Tots. His forum runs a big auction every year. He has donated a lot of models over the years, and the posters there invest time in painting models and units for the charity auction, including Rik and Kyle from the 40k Radio show.

Props to them for that, certainly.

I've never bought anything from battlefoam. I don't think I ever will now.

I've got nothing personal against this man. I don't know him. Didn't know of him until a few days ago.

After reading the things he said (typed) I most certainly won't bother listening to this podcast.

Now I know I'm "jumping on the bandwagon" but his statements speak for themselves.

I could probably "edit" his wording to make a hysterical play on it, but why bother?

In the end I agree with those who say... this guy should calm down and ignore the internet hate.

Haters gonna hate, Romeo. Don't feed the trolls!

PS anyone got a pic of this guy? I wanna make some memes.

 MajorTom11 wrote:
I tend to agree with that Emp... Romeo doesn't do himself any favors writing stuff like that, that's for sure, but it isn't fair to discount all the positive things he does just because you don't like him.

He is definitely a polarizing figure in the hobby, but it has become 'en vogue' to go absolutely nuts on him more than anyone else that I know of. Even Ward, Kirby and Mandelbaum don't get the level of vitriol and aggression Romeo does.

This makes it very difficult for threads on him to exist here as they all seem to very rapidly get to the point where rule #1 is irretrievably out the window. I hope that doesn't happen here. His actions and policies can be discussed without condemning him without reservation as 100% no good people.

Much angst over a box maker. Pistol cases superior...figure cases inferior!

 MajorTom11 wrote:
I tend to agree with that Emp... Romeo doesn't do himself any favors writing stuff like that, that's for sure, but it isn't fair to discount all the positive things he does just because you don't like him.

He is definitely a polarizing figure in the hobby, but it has become 'en vogue' to go absolutely nuts on him more than anyone else that I know of. Even Ward, Kirby and Mandelbaum don't get the level of vitriol and aggression Romeo does.

To be fair though, and this is just from what I've observed, the guy isn't doing himself any favours either. To put it simply, it takes two to tango or, perhaps, where there's smoke there's often fire.

We're wandering off-topic; please confine discussion to the particulars of this legal action & related facts.

While definetely berating and aggressive in tone, I don't see much threatening in Romeo's post. I'm sure there may be other examples, but he really just comes across as someone who feels targeted.

Mayhap my experience with law enforcement has colored my view, but the case doesn't seem to have much in terms of legs either way.

 MajorTom11 wrote:
I tend to agree with that Emp... Romeo doesn't do himself any favors writing stuff like that, that's for sure, but it isn't fair to discount all the positive things he does just because you don't like him.

He is definitely a polarizing figure in the hobby, but it has become 'en vogue' to go absolutely nuts on him more than anyone else that I know of. Even Ward, Kirby and Mandelbaum don't get the level of vitriol and aggression Romeo does.

This makes it very difficult for threads on him to exist here as they all seem to very rapidly get to the point where rule #1 is irretrievably out the window. I hope that doesn't happen here. His actions and policies can be discussed without condemning him without reservation as 100% no good people.

I disagree entirely. First, it is not unfair to say that his negative behaviour mitigates, arguably to the point of elimination, any positive actions he may have taken. As an obviously hyperbolic analogy; you could be a charity-working, poor-helping, completely selfless saint of a man, but if it then emerged that this hypothetical you beat your spouse nobody would or should have any qualms about condemning you as an entire entity; bad people can do nice things, it doesn't mean they aren't bad people.

Second, I think it's disingenuous to cast criticism of the man as fashionable hipsterish dislike; as far as I know, the only crimes Ward has committed are against the English language, while Romeo has publicly and repeatedly threatened physical violence against people. From what I have read(and these are his own words mind, not hearsay), he behaves like a walking YouTube comment thread. Imagine for a moment what would happen if Kirby or Ward responded to criticism of their actions by accusing their detractors of "stalking [them]" to "sniff [their] panties", demands that anyone who has something negative to say about him face him in person and preemptively calls them cowards as he is convinced they will refuse to do so, and then stated that they were making efforts to locate their detractors' identities and addresses along with veiled threats.

People would be calling for their heads on spikes, and I suspect quite a few of Romeo's defenders would be part of that mob. Considering that most of the comments I've read regarding his behaviour amount to "wow, he's a bit of a d-bag eh, I think I'll buy from [competitor] instead", acting like he's become a fashionable hate figure beyond even someone accused of repeatedly ripping people off is a bit much IMO.

In this instance, it seems very much like his behaviour could cost him, since his legal footing is questionable at best, and it rather seems to me like he expected BoK to back down in the face of some chest-thumping.

You know being honest I have a hard time countering that point of view. You are correct in your distinctions between them and their actions... it doesn't change my in-person impression of him but I also would have a great deal of difficulty reconciling the person I spoke to with that post... I can't blame people for feeling as you do based on posts like that either. Fair enough.

Regardless though, I would wonder how posts like the one quoted earlier would influence the case, if at all. Would a judge care about that in regards to the specific claims made by BoK, or only want to address the specific allegations BoK made and only those specific allegations?

Read the first paragraph...

http://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2010/09/14/40k-douche-bag-battlefoam/

The BoK guy liked him well enough as a person, but didnt like the methods which he did business under. Cant blaim him too much either, and considering what has now happened 3 years later, well...

The rest is interesting too. Also, in case people missed the final outcome of Foam Wars 2010 (not the outcome of the case or the Sabol issues or the Warstore tie in...but the patent claim itself)...it was rejected:

http://www.livingdice.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/battlefoam_patent_rejection.pdf

Granted, you would never know by looking at the Battle Foam site...still says patent pending and all that.

 Sean_OBrien wrote:
The rest is interesting too. Also, in case people missed the final outcome of Foam Wars 2010 (not the outcome of the case or the Sabol issues or the Warstore tie in...but the patent claim itself)...it was rejected:

http://www.livingdice.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/battlefoam_patent_rejection.pdf

Granted, you would never know by looking at the Battle Foam site...still says patent pending and all that.

A "final" rejection at the patent office isn't truly final, and most patent applications are rejected at least once after filing.

This patent application actually issued as a patent in July of 2012; it's patent no. 8,229,589.

 Janthkin wrote:

 Sean_OBrien wrote:
The rest is interesting too. Also, in case people missed the final outcome of Foam Wars 2010 (not the outcome of the case or the Sabol issues or the Warstore tie in...but the patent claim itself)...it was rejected:

http://www.livingdice.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/battlefoam_patent_rejection.pdf

Granted, you would never know by looking at the Battle Foam site...still says patent pending and all that.

A "final" rejection at the patent office isn't truly final, and most patent applications are rejected at least once after filing.

This patent application actually issued as a patent in July of 2012; it's patent no. 8,229,589.

Thanks Janthkin, although I would like to add that in general The USPTO will patent a ham sandwich.

weeble1000 wrote:

 Janthkin wrote:

 Sean_OBrien wrote:
The rest is interesting too. Also, in case people missed the final outcome of Foam Wars 2010 (not the outcome of the case or the Sabol issues or the Warstore tie in...but the patent claim itself)...it was rejected:

http://www.livingdice.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/battlefoam_patent_rejection.pdf

Granted, you would never know by looking at the Battle Foam site...still says patent pending and all that.

A "final" rejection at the patent office isn't truly final, and most patent applications are rejected at least once after filing.

This patent application actually issued as a patent in July of 2012; it's patent no. 8,229,589.

Thanks Janthkin, although I would like to add that in general The USPTO will patent a ham sandwich.

Oh, come on now. They wouldn't patent a ham sandwich. They'd patent the *process* by which ham is laid on a piece of sliced bread (Slice A). Slice A is placed upon a plate, napkin, or other surface. The first piece of ham (Ham Initial) is then placed upon Slice A. Further pieces of ham are then laid upon the previous. Upon the completion of laying the final piece of ham (Ham Final) on Slice A, a final slice of bread (Slice B) is to be laid upon the final piece of ham (Ham Final). This completes the process of creating a ham sandwich.

You forgot using a laser to cut the crust off because they don't like the crusts.

You could possibly patent a new machine that made sandwiches automatically.

But this is getting a bit silly. Let's get back on the topic.

czakk wrote:
It is interesting to note that Battle Foam is capable of engaging in litigation in states other than Arizona and has done so in the past. In fact, only a few years ago it argued against having its lawsuit against Outrider Hobbies heard in Arizona, preferring to have it heard in New Hampshire

Would you be willing to hypothesize on why this sort of forum shopping is desirable for BF in similar cases? Is there anything wrong with forum shopping, in general? I find it confusing they would pick the venues that they have selected.

Prevailing opinions from judges that could be hearing the case?

Difficulty for the opposition to work with that particular court due to geography?

 Talizvar wrote:
Well, with this guy it is like buying music from artists that are nasty pieces of work: can you separate the person from the product?

Yes. I buy BF bags because they are really well made. I buy BF custom foam because they're currently the only show in town for the foam sizes I need. I buy pluck foam from SD when possible because it's cheaper. None of my decisions have anything to do with how Romeo does or does not behave.

Snip. I wonder.

Wonder elsewhere, please. It's OT here.

The Auld Grump

 Ouze wrote:

czakk wrote:
It is interesting to note that Battle Foam is capable of engaging in litigation in states other than Arizona and has done so in the past. In fact, only a few years ago it argued against having its lawsuit against Outrider Hobbies heard in Arizona, preferring to have it heard in New Hampshire

Would you be willing to hypothesize on why this sort of forum shopping is desirable for BF in similar cases? Is there anything wrong with forum shopping, in general? I find it confusing they would pick the venues that they have selected.

Well this is what the judge in the Outrider Hobbies case said:

The reason Battle Foam decided to sue Wade in this forum - nearly 2,700 miles from both its principal place of business and Wade’s residence - is unclear. This, however, is undeniable: short of filing in the District of Alaska, Maine, or Puerto Rico, Battle Foam would have been hard pressed to find a more distant and inconvenient federal forum in which to require Wade to appear (the same is true for any potential witnesses - nearly all of whom one might reasonably infer are beyond this court’s civil subpoena power, including Mr. Kavourias). Wade believes this suit and, in particular, Battle Foam’s choice of forum, are part of a larger, ongoing pattern of harassment that he says has been directed toward him.

If you think about it, forcing a small business owner to pursue a case in a far flung jurisdiction makes a certain sort of sense if you have the money to hire a local attorney. In this case Mr. Wade seemed up to the challenge and did quite well for himself as a pro se defendant.




Forum shopping (especially for defamation) is an issue because it encourages the plaintiff to select a jurisdiction based on juridical advantage rather than where they actually suffered their harm. The classic example would be suing someone for defamation in the UK instead of the US - the UK's defamation law is crazy. This is why the americans passed the SPEECH act which prevents the enforcement of foreign defamation judgments (in certain circumstances).

It's also why you see patent trolls filing suits in a particular district in the US, the United States District Court for the Eastern District of Texas. Plaintiff friendly judges and a set of local rules that speeds up trials.


In the current case, hearing it in either California, or hearing it in Arizona makes sense. Tasty Taste is in California and publishes his blog there. Battle Foam is based in Arizona. Obviously showing up to court is going to cost more for who ever is out of state. State law on defamation might be different as well. I don't know what Mr. Hayden does for a living, but explaining to your boss that you have to fly to Arizona to be part of a defamation trial for your hobby blog could be tricky.

I don't know about the local civ pro rules in either state, but Battle Foam may have been able to preempt Mr. Hayden's motion for declaratory relief (and initial selection of California as the venue) by filing their lawsuit and then sending the C&D letter. That way when the motion of declaratory relief goes in they can show up at court in California and say "M'Lady / M'lord, we've already got a lawsuit going on in Arizona. You should stay this because its duplicative etc...".

 heartserenade wrote:
Follow-up on my last post:

Googling got me to this thread: http://www.datasphere.codestrike.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=70&p=747

TLDR version: people on that thread talking about what Romeo did in that deleted Infinity thread where he reacted violently on criticisms and allegedly threatened people (and those people shared copy-pastes of the e-mails Romeo sent).

That forums (words, words words words words) icon is awesome

As a curiosity, does anyone have the original pre-edited recording of the controversial O-12 Podcast that has since been removed?

 Absolutionis wrote:
As a curiosity, does anyone have the original pre-edited recording of the controversial O-12 Podcast that has since been removed?

Yes.

Would you like a transcript of it?

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Absolutionis wrote:
As a curiosity, does anyone have the original pre-edited recording of the controversial O-12 Podcast that has since been removed?

Yes.

Would you like a transcript of it?

Wouldn't mind the actual podcast, but a transcript would be nice too

O-12? Dunno those guys.

It's a podcast powered by Battlefoam, it's got 3 guys, Romeo, Tom and Kip... I've never heard an episode though

 Alfndrate wrote:
It's a podcast powered by Battlefoam, it's got 3 guys, Romeo, Tom and Kip... I've never heard an episode though

??? That's called 40k Radio. I listen to it every episode. What's O-12?

 kronk wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:
It's a podcast powered by Battlefoam, it's got 3 guys, Romeo, Tom and Kip... I've never heard an episode though

??? That's called 40k Radio. I listen to it every episode. What's O-12?

Same thing then, just for Infinity instead of 40k...

Oh, I see. I've never listened to that.