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 Frazzled wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
If you really want to talk about "the uninformed", how about we mention the fact that right now you can buy Garands through the CMP--a government branch.

And how the government are going to be one of the entities still able to import weapons.

Wow its like someone already mentioned the CMP. I wonder who that could have been...

You are the one who is all doom and gloom about this, yet is ignoring the fact that the only change is from private entities being able to buy the guns.

 Kanluwen wrote:
If you really want to talk about "the uninformed", how about we mention the fact that right now you can buy Garands through the CMP--a government branch.

And how the government are going to be one of the entities still able to import weapons.

Mention it again, you mean? Yes, let's.

No idea what that has to do with clueless people believing this'll stop folks from getting their hands on imported SAWs, though.

 Seaward wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
If you really want to talk about "the uninformed", how about we mention the fact that right now you can buy Garands through the CMP--a government branch.

And how the government are going to be one of the entities still able to import weapons.

Mention it again, you mean? Yes, let's.

No idea what that has to do with clueless people believing this'll stop folks from getting their hands on imported SAWs, though.

Rather than bitching and moaning about the "clueless people" why not try educating people?

There is a perceived "Us and Them" mentality between gun owners and non-gun owners. Don't let mouthpieces like the NRA be the only way people find out about firearms.

Exactly. How is this supposed to help anything...oh yea its not...

 Frazzled wrote:

 Ouze wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
Seriusly? This just wreaks of stupid. Please identify one time ONE TIME an M1 Garand or M1 carbine have been used in a crime in the last 50 years (the movie Thin Red Line does not count).

challenge accepted

spiking the ball, now!

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
If I lived in 'murica, I'd want an M1. I'm not pro gun at all, but that's a damn fine weapon. I'd like to have one as a piece of history, also a high rate of fire and a lot of stopping power, just in case I'd need it for real.

Amen, brother. That and the 1911 are just fine, fine hardware. I would love to own either the Garand or the Carbine.

To be fair, you did find one. The Google Force is indeed strong with this one...
One
Fifteen years ago.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kanluwen wrote:
If you really want to talk about "the uninformed", how about we mention the fact that right now you can buy Garands through the CMP--a government branch.

And how the government are going to be one of the entities still able to import weapons.

Wow its like someone already mentioned the CMP. I wonder who that could have been...

Oh, that would have been me 1 page ago:

If you are a part of the Civilian Marksmanship program, M1s can be bought via auction here:
http://www.odcmp.com/Sales/m1garand.htm

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
If you really want to talk about "the uninformed", how about we mention the fact that right now you can buy Garands through the CMP--a government branch.

And how the government are going to be one of the entities still able to import weapons.

Wow its like someone already mentioned the CMP. I wonder who that could have been...

You are the one who is all doom and gloom about this, yet is ignoring the fact that the only change is from private entities being able to buy the guns.

Question for ya:
What is the purpose of the Second Amendment of the United States Constitution?

 Ouze wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
Seriusly? This just wreaks of stupid. Please identify one time ONE TIME an M1 Garand or M1 carbine have been used in a crime in the last 50 years (the movie Thin Red Line does not count).

challenge accepted

spiking the ball, now!

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
If I lived in 'murica, I'd want an M1. I'm not pro gun at all, but that's a damn fine weapon. I'd like to have one as a piece of history, also a high rate of fire and a lot of stopping power, just in case I'd need it for real.

Amen, brother. That and the 1911 are just fine, fine hardware. I would love to own either the Garand or the Carbine.

I love my 1911, best purchase ever!

Also, those were both technically the M1 Carbines yes? Not garands no? I mean I like the post and the sentiment, but it wouldn't be the internet if someone didn't argue semantics

 Spacemanvic wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
If you really want to talk about "the uninformed", how about we mention the fact that right now you can buy Garands through the CMP--a government branch.

And how the government are going to be one of the entities still able to import weapons.

Wow its like someone already mentioned the CMP. I wonder who that could have been...

You are the one who is all doom and gloom about this, yet is ignoring the fact that the only change is from private entities being able to buy the guns.

Question for ya:
What is the purpose of the Second Amendment of the United States Constitution?

Do you want the actual intended purpose?

It was to establish a well-regulated milita that would be set up as a response to the potentiality of the nascent government becoming as tyrannical as the one they just got out from under and to provide a measure of security for what was at the time a developing frontier.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Seaward wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
If you really want to talk about "the uninformed", how about we mention the fact that right now you can buy Garands through the CMP--a government branch.

And how the government are going to be one of the entities still able to import weapons.

Mention it again, you mean? Yes, let's.

No idea what that has to do with clueless people believing this'll stop folks from getting their hands on imported SAWs, though.

Rather than bitching and moaning about the "clueless people" why not try educating people?

There is a perceived "Us and Them" mentality between gun owners and non-gun owners. Don't let mouthpieces like the NRA be the only way people find out about firearms.

Oh, it's not perceived. It's between the gun owners and the non-gun owners who want to confiscate firearms. A quick perusal of online news gives ample evidence of it. Also, the stupidity stumbling from the mouth of OhBaMuh and his administration gives credence to the worry gun owners have. It's not paranoia if they really are after you.

Also, while the NRA is the largest organization, there is also the Second Amendment Foundation (SAF), and the Gun Owners of America (GOA). These are the only three reputable gun-rights groups in the US.

Here's a good video:




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Spacemanvic wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
If you really want to talk about "the uninformed", how about we mention the fact that right now you can buy Garands through the CMP--a government branch.

And how the government are going to be one of the entities still able to import weapons.

Wow its like someone already mentioned the CMP. I wonder who that could have been...

You are the one who is all doom and gloom about this, yet is ignoring the fact that the only change is from private entities being able to buy the guns.

Question for ya:
What is the purpose of the Second Amendment of the United States Constitution?

Do you want the actual intended purpose?

It was to establish a well-regulated milita that would be set up as a response to the potentiality of the nascent government becoming as tyrannical as the one they just got out from under and to provide a measure of security for what was at the time a developing frontier.

Please define well-regulated? Also, define militia. FYI, you are on the hook.....And use the historical context of the words when defining them please....

 Frazzled wrote:
Exactly. How is this supposed to help anything...oh yea its not...

It helps Obama's claim to do something about gun control....the gun control debate isnt about saving lifes or protecting the 2nd amendment rights, its about appearance and this move is some "gun control" that obama can push forward without congress doing anything thus allowing Obama to say hes cracking down

 Spacemanvic wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Seaward wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
If you really want to talk about "the uninformed", how about we mention the fact that right now you can buy Garands through the CMP--a government branch.

And how the government are going to be one of the entities still able to import weapons.

Mention it again, you mean? Yes, let's.

No idea what that has to do with clueless people believing this'll stop folks from getting their hands on imported SAWs, though.

Rather than bitching and moaning about the "clueless people" why not try educating people?

There is a perceived "Us and Them" mentality between gun owners and non-gun owners. Don't let mouthpieces like the NRA be the only way people find out about firearms.

Oh, it's not perceived. It's between the gun owners and the non-gun owners who want to confiscate firearms. A quick perusal of online news gives ample evidence of it. Also, the stupidity stumbling from the mouth of OhBaMuh and his administration gives credence to the worry gun owners have. It's not paranoia if they really are after you.

Also, while the NRA is the largest organization, there is also the Second Amendment Foundation (SAF), and the Gun Owners of America (GOA). These are the only three reputable gun-rights groups in the US.

"Reputable" is a question in and of itself when it comes to organizations that have members who go on record like the GOA did in the link Frazzled gave.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Spacemanvic wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
If you really want to talk about "the uninformed", how about we mention the fact that right now you can buy Garands through the CMP--a government branch.

And how the government are going to be one of the entities still able to import weapons.

Wow its like someone already mentioned the CMP. I wonder who that could have been...

You are the one who is all doom and gloom about this, yet is ignoring the fact that the only change is from private entities being able to buy the guns.

Question for ya:
What is the purpose of the Second Amendment of the United States Constitution?

Do you want the actual intended purpose?

It was to establish a well-regulated milita that would be set up as a response to the potentiality of the nascent government becoming as tyrannical as the one they just got out from under and to provide a measure of security for what was at the time a developing frontier.

Please define a well-regulated militia?

The generally accepted terminology for "well-regulated" was a group that trained regularly.

Also, define militia. FYI, you are on the hook.....

Defining a "militia" depends on the group in question you are referring to.

There's the more general definition of "a group of citizens who are enrolled for military service and called out to train regularly but are expected to actually serve in the case of emergencies".

Then there is the other definition of "a group of citizens who are organized in a paramilitary group who regard themselves as the defenders of individual rights against perceived encroachments by the federal government".

 Kanluwen wrote:
Rather than bitching and moaning about the "clueless people" why not try educating people?

There is a perceived "Us and Them" mentality between gun owners and non-gun owners. Don't let mouthpieces like the NRA be the only way people find out about firearms.

None of this stuff is arcane knowledge hidden in a forgotten temple or anything. If people actually cared to learn, it would not be remotely difficult.

But then their ideology might have to change to align with the facts, and if one thing's been proven, it's that people much prefer to run around spouting bs about "military-style" weapons and how crazy it is that eight year-olds can buy miniguns at Walmart.

Also not sure what arguing over the meaning of 200+ year old words will solve. The purpose of the 2nd amendment is to ensure the people are adequately armed to deal with the government if it becomes a tyranny

 Kanluwen wrote:
Do you want the actual intended purpose?

It was to establish a well-regulated milita that would be set up as a response to the potentiality of the nascent government becoming as tyrannical as the one they just got out from under and to provide a measure of security for what was at the time a developing frontier.

Nope.

Kanluwen, use the historical context for militia please....

 Spacemanvic wrote:
Kanluwen, use the historical context for militia please....

your clearly trying to make a point so instead of trying to draw him into saying whatever it is your looking for....why not just share your point?

 Spacemanvic wrote:
Kanluwen, use the historical context for militia please....

All free males of adult age.

 ironicsilence wrote:
Also not sure what arguing over the meaning of 200+ year old words will solve. The purpose of the 2nd amendment is to ensure the people are adequately armed to deal with the government if it becomes a tyranny

It makes every difference, especially in context of law, of which the Constitution is the "supreme law of the land".

The anti's would have you believe that "militia" meant only a government body and that "well regulated" meant controlled.

 Frazzled wrote:

 Spacemanvic wrote:
Kanluwen, use the historical context for militia please....

All free males of adult age.

Must we own land as well sir?

 Spacemanvic wrote:

 ironicsilence wrote:
Also not sure what arguing over the meaning of 200+ year old words will solve. The purpose of the 2nd amendment is to ensure the people are adequately armed to deal with the government if it becomes a tyranny

It makes every difference, especially in context of law, of which the Constitution is the "supreme law of the land".

The anti's would have you believe that "militia" meant only a government body and that "well regulated" meant controlled.

is that your point? Are you trying to get Kan to tell you if he thinks well regulated militias should be controlled by the government?

 Frazzled wrote:

 Spacemanvic wrote:
Kanluwen, use the historical context for militia please....

All free males of adult age.

Thank you Frazzled.

 Frazzled wrote:

 Spacemanvic wrote:
Kanluwen, use the historical context for militia please....

All free males of adult age.

That's one of FOUR definitions.

So if you want to play the "context", I suggest you get your learning on.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Spacemanvic wrote:

 ironicsilence wrote:
Also not sure what arguing over the meaning of 200+ year old words will solve. The purpose of the 2nd amendment is to ensure the people are adequately armed to deal with the government if it becomes a tyranny

It makes every difference, especially in context of law, of which the Constitution is the "supreme law of the land".

The anti's would have you believe that "militia" meant only a government body and that "well regulated" meant controlled.

Nowhere once did I mention anything of those two concepts.

So please, keep your words out of my mouth.

 Frazzled wrote:

 Spacemanvic wrote:
Kanluwen, use the historical context for militia please....

All free males of adult age.

I saw a movie once where a free male signed over his slave to the militia

 ironicsilence wrote:

 Spacemanvic wrote:
Kanluwen, use the historical context for militia please....

your clearly trying to make a point so instead of trying to draw him into saying whatever it is your looking for....why not just share your point?

Im abiding by what Kanluwen wanted:

Rather than bitching and moaning about the "clueless people" why not try educating people?

Hence, the schooling....


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

 Spacemanvic wrote:
Kanluwen, use the historical context for militia please....

All free males of adult age.

That's one of FOUR definitions.

So if you want to play the "context", I suggest you get your learning on.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Spacemanvic wrote:

 ironicsilence wrote:
Also not sure what arguing over the meaning of 200+ year old words will solve. The purpose of the 2nd amendment is to ensure the people are adequately armed to deal with the government if it becomes a tyranny

It makes every difference, especially in context of law, of which the Constitution is the "supreme law of the land".

The anti's would have you believe that "militia" meant only a government body and that "well regulated" meant controlled.

Nowhere once did I mention anything of those two concepts.

So please, keep your words out of my mouth.

Your tenor telegraphs your punches....

 Spacemanvic wrote:

 ironicsilence wrote:

 Spacemanvic wrote:
Kanluwen, use the historical context for militia please....

your clearly trying to make a point so instead of trying to draw him into saying whatever it is your looking for....why not just share your point?

Im abiding by what Kanluwen wanted:

Rather than bitching and moaning about the "clueless people" why not try educating people?

Hence, the schooling....

If you want to talk about "schooling", how about you go look up the definition of "militia"?

There is no single "historical context" for the term "militia" outside of an army or fighting force composed of non-professional soldiery drawn from the citizenship.

I prefer the term "rebel fighters" to "milita"

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Spacemanvic wrote:

 ironicsilence wrote:

 Spacemanvic wrote:
Kanluwen, use the historical context for militia please....

your clearly trying to make a point so instead of trying to draw him into saying whatever it is your looking for....why not just share your point?

Im abiding by what Kanluwen wanted:

Rather than bitching and moaning about the "clueless people" why not try educating people?

Hence, the schooling....

If you want to talk about "schooling", how about you go look up the definition of "militia"?

There is no single "historical context" for the term "militia" outside of an army or fighting force composed of non-professional soldiery drawn from the citizenship.

Here, read this:

http://www.guncite.com/gc2ndpur.html

Pretty much answers all.....

Anyway, back to topic:
OhBahMuh's policy accomplishes nothing for it's stated intent (curb violence on the street), but does further curtail an individuals right by eliminating the supply as well as increase the cost to certain weaponry that would otherwise be legal to obtain.

the government buying all the bullets up makes me more grumpy then not allowing the import of M1s

That figures. As soon as they get schooled on their logic, they immediately start proclaiming to "get back on topic".

 Alfndrate wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

 Spacemanvic wrote:
Kanluwen, use the historical context for militia please....

All free males of adult age.

Must we own land as well sir?

And verily! I don't think indentured servants were included, and I'd bet good money slaves sure weren't...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ironicsilence wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

 Spacemanvic wrote:
Kanluwen, use the historical context for militia please....

All free males of adult age.

I saw a movie once where a free male signed over his slave to the militia

Mail isn't free, it costs me $.33!
I'm using the common law definition of the framers at the time of the Constitution.

"The State militia consists of all able-bodied persons
residing in the State except those exempted by law."
-Illinois Constitution

"“Every able-bodied freeman, between the ages of 16 and 50 is enrolled in the militia. …. In every county is a county lieutenant, who commands the whole militia of his county. …. The governor is the head of the military, as well as the civil power. The law requires every militia-man to provide himself with the arms usual in the regular service.”
"
-Thomas Jefferson (yea that guy)

Oh good, a new gun control thread. Now I don't have to create one to share this.

http://usfinancepost.com/harvard-gun-control-does-not-reduce-crime-6179.html

New from Harvard. Gun Control doesn't control crime.