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GW really isn't that expensive when compared to other hobbies. Looking at other types of models in particular, I work on 1/350 scale WW2 battleships.

Each one costs around $500+ after you buy the kit, photo etch, wooden deck, etc... + you require a decent airbrush/compressor. Keep in mind after its done, this thing just sits on a shelf, there is no game system associated with it.

RC stuff is even more pricey, I was looking into getting a 1/16 scale rc tank to mess around with and it would cost anywhere from $800-1200 to buy all the equipment and kit pieces new.

Then there are thing like fishing where you can spend $10,000 and up (way up) for just the boat.

My 40k armies each cost roughly $1000 for 1750 pts, that is nothing compared to other hobbies.

nkelsch wrote:
LOL, If you think Warhammer is expensive, you don't know very much. Try 5th scale cars, remote control airplanes, Video games, Golf, owning a boat, and so on which can cost of thousands of dollars a year to maintain.

Hobbies can be expensive.

Tell me again how any of those can help with the fact I like to paint models and then play with them? Excellent strawman though.

 sing your life wrote:

raffaello.b wrote:


In Italy, with 62€, you can buy enough food for a week!

Well my Mum spends about £110 on weekly shopping, and £ is worth more than euro.

Though I do agree some of GW's prices are insane.

price of food varies by country, also you mum spends £110 a week, isnt actualy very constuctive. I spend £100 a month on food, and eat all fresh and home cooked and only get some frozen bits ( ie peas sweetcorn etc) however what this sdoesnt say is how many people there are per household etc.

In terms of price, yes the prices are a lot, however it is dependand on a persons disposable income on whether this a expensive for them or not. I would presume the most common age range on dakka is say 14 - 22, this is traditionalyl a group that either relys on someone else for their diposable income or are only just starting the work ladder so not in great paying jobs.

for me the prices on the hobby is not pricing me out, it means i just have to pace my purchases. (means i have less stuff that i havnt yet painted, and allows me to complete units bfore buying more)

How do these threads still get responses? Isn't there one thread to rule them all with this subject? There should be!

 Davylove21 wrote:
How do these threads still get responses? Isn't there one thread to rule them all with this subject? There should be!

That was my first thought too, but I guess they keep cropping up because the problem isn't going away (is getting worse?)

I assume that not all Dakka users log on regularly enough to see the older threads, or are newly registered, but if that's the case, it does suggest more of a systemic issue that people can voice this opinion, independently of each other, so frequently, than if it was the same old squeaky wheels retreading the same ground all the time (which this thread will inevitably devolve into, given time, but there are new voices in each new thread)

 Davylove21 wrote:
How do these threads still get responses? Isn't there one thread to rule them all with this subject? There should be!

I replied - So I'm guilty, but there should be mods regulating price discussion.

In warseer there is just one price discussion thread, any new ones them pop up are locked pretty fast.

 gossipmeng wrote:

 Davylove21 wrote:
How do these threads still get responses? Isn't there one thread to rule them all with this subject? There should be!

I replied - So I'm guilty, but there should be mods regulating price discussion.

In warseer there is just one price discussion thread, any new ones them pop up are locked pretty fast.

Silence the dissent. There's no problem here.

raffaello.b wrote:
Hi guys,
In my opinion GW, with its last releases, is proposing exaggerated prices! This trend has been going on for 1.5 – 2 years.
(i.e. Space Marine Centurions 62€; Space Marine Captain 25€; High Elves Phoenix 46€).

In Italy, with 62€, you can buy enough food for a week! Warhammer is a wonderful hobby but let’s not forget that.. is all about plastic toys, 25 mm tall!

Do you think they’re worth the cost, or you share my opinion?

Ciao!

I remember looking at the Tactical Marines, from memory they've gone up from £23 to £25. It's hardly a humungous increase. Yes, the captain's a silly price, but you can simply buy the AOBR one from Hoardobits for five Euros. So, I reckon prices have not gone up anything like the price of tin of Italian Tomatoes (were 45p, now often over £1), or Lavazza Black label (was £1.80 two years ago, now £3.60 an higher).

Your countrymen are bleeding me dry! You can always choose whether to buy new figures, I don't have any choice about buying tomatoes, and especially coffee!

I love these types of threads ... it reminds me of how inexpensive GW really is ....

Titled to me:
83 CJ-5
98 Wrangler TJ
04 Wrangler TJ
08 FLHTCU Harley Davidson 105th Anni. Edition

I have done modifications on all of these and let me assure you ... it is NOT cheap.

Registered to me with still having payments:
10 Jeep Wrangler
13 Nissan 370Z
13 1200 Sportster Custom Harley

I have done very little to no mods on these yet as they are not paid off.

GW is a rather cheap way of getting entertainment and gathering with friends. Cheaper than all the rest of my hobbies and I will not even bother with the RC Cars and Planes that I have. It is not overly expensive and if it is costing you too much then you have choices to make .... quit the hobby, quit buying GW, or get a better paying job so that you can buy GW.

 OIIIIIIO wrote:
I love these types of threads ... it reminds me of how inexpensive GW really is ....

Titled to me:
83 CJ-5
98 Wrangler TJ
04 Wrangler TJ
08 FLHTCU Harley Davidson 105th Anni. Edition

I have done modifications on all of these and let me assure you ... it is NOT cheap.

Registered to me with still having payments:
10 Jeep Wrangler
13 Nissan 370Z
13 1200 Sportster Custom Harley

I have done very little to no mods on these yet as they are not paid off.

GW is a rather cheap way of getting entertainment and gathering with friends. Cheaper than all the rest of my hobbies and I will not even bother with the RC Cars and Planes that I have. It is not overly expensive and if it is costing you too much then you have choices to make .... quit the hobby, quit buying GW, or get a better paying job so that you can buy GW.

Re-read what I wrote & realized the path I was going. nm

Rustiga wrote:

raffaello.b wrote:
Hi guys,
In my opinion GW, with its last releases, is proposing exaggerated prices! This trend has been going on for 1.5 – 2 years.
(i.e. Space Marine Centurions 62€; Space Marine Captain 25€; High Elves Phoenix 46€).

In Italy, with 62€, you can buy enough food for a week! Warhammer is a wonderful hobby but let’s not forget that.. is all about plastic toys, 25 mm tall!

Do you think they’re worth the cost, or you share my opinion?

Ciao!

The truth of the matter is, that this type of gaming is a dying breed. GW realizes that they have a quantity of players locked down & as zealous as a certain tech company with a fruit for a logo. There might be some people with IQ's around average room temperature claiming that any hobby is expensive, but this hobby is niche & the more GW alienates youth (of whom, can rarely afford the rise in costs), the less you will see & hear regarding this game. What they are doing, as others have mentioned, is opened up the window for third party minis (of which it is not hard to claim proxy for). It will get to a point, where the legal fees to pursue every IP-knock off will run the purse dry (of which, I gleefully await).

So, I apologize that your economic scenario cannot match the greed that is entailed by a company, but realize, that the whole game is about building a narrative (i.e, using your imagination), which, it won't be too hard to replace that pristine premium price tier unit with whatever you'd like.

You are unfortunately wrong. Video gaming has show a decline these last two years and board gaming is on the rise. We just did a study to determine if it would be viable to open a games shop.

 OIIIIIIO wrote:
I love these types of threads ... it reminds me of how inexpensive GW really is ....

Titled to me:
83 CJ-5
98 Wrangler TJ
04 Wrangler TJ
08 FLHTCU Harley Davidson 105th Anni. Edition

I have done modifications on all of these and let me assure you ... it is NOT cheap.

Registered to me with still having payments:
10 Jeep Wrangler
13 Nissan 370Z
13 1200 Sportster Custom Harley

I have done very little to no mods on these yet as they are not paid off.

GW is a rather cheap way of getting entertainment and gathering with friends. Cheaper than all the rest of my hobbies and I will not even bother with the RC Cars and Planes that I have. It is not overly expensive and if it is costing you too much then you have choices to make .... quit the hobby, quit buying GW, or get a better paying job so that you can buy GW.

Look, it's another red herring.

First, let me thank all of you for your answers!
I was curious to hear about other gamers' opionion, no matter if alike mine or opposite.

Second, I'd like to point out that my judgement of "exaggerated price" comes out of a simple calculation, as follows:
In consumer products, usually there's a multiplier factor, that relates production cost and market price. Example:
Production cost of a shaver: 12€
Multiplier: 5x (that allows the company to earn)
Market Price: 60€
12*5=60
Usually this multiplier ranges fom 4x to 8x.

I can esteem that the production cost of Space Marine Centurions is max 5€ (I worked in plastic industry). The price is 62€.
If I'm right, it means that GW charges on products much much much more then the average.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:

 frozenwastes wrote:
My favorite thing about GW's prices is that they have opened up the market for competition in a way that would not have been possible had GW not started protecting their margins with large price increases.
Now small producers can bring figures to market at a price that makes their businesses viable despite their lack of economies of scale. Had GW kept their prices competitive and did their best to compete with new players in the market by strangling them of their margins, we might not have had the massive increase in alternatives.
Each new price hike for each new release simply opens the door to the market for new participants giving us all more options.

Exaltworthy.
As long as the big fish keeps pushing the envelope (metaphoric bliss!) with how expensive they can make their product, then it's going to make the initial buy-in for smaller companies and cottage industries more viable.
Dreamforge, for example, have tried and been highly successful. I really look forward to many more companies coming forward with alternative minis and, as GWs own aesthetics have shifted towards a younger audience (apparently) I hope to see more gritty or realistic minis from these companies for those seeking that look.
And, of course, more competition means better pricing for the buyer, which we should all welcome.

Pretty much no more needs to be said. Great wording guys.

So what if other hobbies cost a lot more? It's like saying a sports car isn't so expensive because a yacht is a lot more.

GW is expensive when compared to similar products. Not compared to cars and horses, but to other models and games. Some cost more, a lot cost less. It tends to be quite niche companies, like Studio McVey, that cost more though, and even then that's less the case now with Finecast. Many games and model ranges are cheaper to buy into, both per figure and on the total investment to play full games.

You don't need to be a millionaire to play GW, don't be silly. Anyone with a decent job can afford it *if* you don't want to do lots of other stuff as well. Although there is a difference between affording something and being able to justify it. I can do the former, just not the latter. There's quite a few people who complain about not being able to afford GW when at college, well that's when I abandoned it too. You won't get to buy heaps of GW on a student loan.

tldr: You don't need to be a millionaire, but compared to others in the hobby, GW are about the most costly. There are lots of better value things than GW that satisfy my gaming and modelling.

raffaello.b wrote:
First, let me thank all of you for your answers!
I was curious to hear about other gamers' opionion, no matter if alike mine or opposite.

Second, I'd like to point out that my judgement of "exaggerated price" comes out of a simple calculation, as follows:
In consumer products, usually there's a multiplier factor, that relates production cost and market price. Example:
Production cost of a shaver: 12€
Multiplier: 5x (that allows the company to earn)
Market Price: 60€
12*5=60
Usually this multiplier ranges fom 4x to 8x.

I can esteem that the production cost of Space Marine Centurions is max 5€ (I worked in plastic industry). The price is 62€.
If I'm right, it means that GW charges on products much much much more then the average.

You forgot the elasticity of the market, they keep increasing the price for the only reason that people still continue to buy them... So why would they lower their price if they can make more profit on customer that will still buy it at the end... Look how fast thoses "exclusives" Chapter books were gone, how the site explode at the release of the new Space Marine. I don't remember a site lately that had a problem of too massive traffic at the same time. They have their market, complaning about it won't change anything. You don't buy them, that's your choice.

I used to play Fantasy on the since 6/7/8 and now I just move on to something else. Just imagine... people complain about 40k with their game of about 1500-1750pts with a Tank or 2 and with more or less 20-30 figurines on the tabletop... 20-30 figurines you bearly got a chance to fill a viable regiment in Fantasy! The impact of the price increasing can be much more visible in Fantasy. Since the "Horde" rules of 40+ figurines on a regiment... and figurines boxes sold in package of 10... make the math. A usual Fantasy game of 1750-2000pts can easly fill about a +100 figurines.

At the end... it become a bit useless to "critism" the price of a product. You can't afford it, don't buy it. My mom always said: " No money, no candy". GW product is a candy, end of the story.

What I have found is that their prices (as another member put it) are actually hurting them by allowing smaller companies to be able to price competitively while realizing a sustainable profit margin. I look at the reason from another aspect. It used to be that FW was thought of as the models for people with more money than sense....but now the price difference is so marginal that you can spend just a couple dollars more and you can have a very unique FW army. I myself love that the pricing has allowed me to rationalize a higher per model price. Example my Iron warriors army. All my marines are mostly 3rd party bitz. The only GW iron warriors items they have are the torso and weapons....and some heads scattered throughout, but the legs, backpacks, shoulder pads, heads all come from various 3rd party providers.

Couple this with that most tournaments are playing more of the WYSIWYG cool rule. I.E. If it looks like a marine, it has recognizable weapons and you got some fluff for your "lost chapter" they dont care if its all GW or not. So it really has been a boost for the aftermarket providers.

Do I think the prices are too high, yep.....do I think the current business model is sustainable...nope....do I think GW is on their way out.....they been here for 30+ years and I really doubt its going anytime soon....

 sing your life wrote:

raffaello.b wrote:


In Italy, with 62€, you can buy enough food for a week!

Well my Mum spends about £110 on weekly shopping, and £ is worth more than euro.

Though I do agree some of GW's prices are insane.

Wow what does she buy 110 pounds lasts me over a month and I have 2 pets. Dun drink or smoke though.

 azreal13 wrote:

 Rayvon wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:
Not to an Italian!

Unless the Italian lives in England !

Touché.

I will give you that, but it still doesn't stop what I was responding to being one of the most naive things I've read on this forum in possibly ever.

An Italian in England probably didn't move there for the food....

(I am the only person that I know who cooks steak & kidney pie.... Or eats black pudding. Or likes mutton....)

The Auld Grump

You shouldn't generalise AG, the UK is in the midst of a food revolution, we have Michelin star restaurants up the wazoo, and the only occasion you'll see black pudding in a restaurant is with scallops and a pea purée!

Steak and kidney pudding is awesome though and often ponced up for fine dining, but mutton you can keep..

Totally agree, GW blows. I buy different models for much less and use them at local events and no one has a problem with it thankfully.

Its expensive but doable, and I'll use myself as an example. I'm an Undergraduate Student in the last year of a 4 year MSci Archaeology course. The only income I've had is what I get from Student loans and the small amount me and my Fiancée make from our homerun book business which frankly doesn't reach 5 figures a year.

Even with this small income I can still manage to get the odd model here and there and it is justified by the amount of time I put into them. I can't really afford video games and I definitely can't afford some of the more intensive hobbies I'm interested in (Travelling for rock climbing or simply maintaining my excavation gear prove difficult sometimes) but buying a single blister pack of a model will keep me entertained for hours. I take my time painting and enjoy what I do. For some of my display pieces around the House I may have put in upwards of 40 hours per figure and I reckon that's a good return for my investment. it takes me years to build an army but with patience and careful spending it can be done!

So its not quite a hobby for millionaires, but it is one open to everyone with careful and patient spending, hell a broke student can manage it!

 Spectral Painting NI wrote:
So its not quite a hobby for millionaires

Wait another 5-10 years.

quickfuze wrote:What I have found is that their prices (as another member put it) are actually hurting them by allowing smaller companies to be able to price competitively while realizing a sustainable profit margin.

Oh, I get it! It all makes sense now. GW got tired of being the only game in town and put their prices up simply to allow competition to grow. They're trying to be sporting to other companies and we've been giving them gak for it this whole time.

I got into this mess back when you could buy 2 metal figures for $5.50, and back then that seemed expensive.

GW has always been on the pricy side, and I've been one of those who buys it for the cool toys moreso than the rules.

Things get assembled, sometimes they get painted (I'm getting better with that, but I've got 2 companies of space marines collected over 20 years that are little more than base coated) and every once in a while they get played with.

I really like the models, but I feel like I get punched in the gut every time I buy a kit. It's definitely moved me towards looking for other companies to fill out my armies.

wufai wrote:
Yea! Another GW pricing is too high post!

.

Yea! Another complaining about people thinking different than you post!

Strange, people using non-wargaming hobbies to justify GW prices. I am using Tamiya tanks, Gundam tanks, and now Dystopian legion prussian knights because it is cheaper than GW

I'm not sure how anyone who isn't wealthy has the money for Warhammer. I only am able to afford it because my parents are upper class (but certainly not millionaires) and I have their credit card. That being said out of respect o them I haven't bought anything from GW is quite some time. $70 for an e-book? Are they out of their minds?

Well, it's less expensive on a number of levels than being a junkie... I fortunately worked at a hobby shop running a 40K game night, so I had a fat discount. That ended earlier this year. We would have discussions about GW's pricing approaching that of Tamiya for tank kits in roughly the same scale which supposedly justified the high prices. But it is just plastic. (Nice to see they are moving away from finecast with the new stuff). Then there are the new codex that costs as much as the rule book used to.
The part I am actually having issues with is all the new stuff. Aircraft and then anti-aircraft and a bunch of awesome new models like the Land Speeder Vengeance for the Dark Angels No doubt the quality of the models is top line, but it's getting so most of my models stay in the case for games. Such problems, right?
Went through a spell of unemployment this year, so that pre-empted getting any new kits, but I have caught up with most of my painting. And it is a way-cool hobby, so just have to get more selective. Maybe that's why they have run the prices way up - to save us from ourselves...

 Spectral Painting NI wrote:
Its expensive but doable, and I'll use myself as an example. I'm an Undergraduate Student in the last year of a 4 year MSci Archaeology course. The only income I've had is what I get from Student loans and the small amount me and my Fiancée make from our homerun book business which frankly doesn't reach 5 figures a year.

Even with this small income I can still manage to get the odd model here and there and it is justified by the amount of time I put into them. I can't really afford video games and I definitely can't afford some of the more intensive hobbies I'm interested in (Travelling for rock climbing or simply maintaining my excavation gear prove difficult sometimes) but buying a single blister pack of a model will keep me entertained for hours. I take my time painting and enjoy what I do. For some of my display pieces around the House I may have put in upwards of 40 hours per figure and I reckon that's a good return for my investment. it takes me years to build an army but with patience and careful spending it can be done!

So its not quite a hobby for millionaires, but it is one open to everyone with careful and patient spending, hell a broke student can manage it!

Mate, at your description, you couldn't even look forward to playing out a full game for 4 years. But it sounds like you're more into the painting & collection aspect, which I can understand with that level of income.

Rustiga wrote:

 Spectral Painting NI wrote:
Its expensive but doable, and I'll use myself as an example. I'm an Undergraduate Student in the last year of a 4 year MSci Archaeology course. The only income I've had is what I get from Student loans and the small amount me and my Fiancée make from our homerun book business which frankly doesn't reach 5 figures a year.

Even with this small income I can still manage to get the odd model here and there and it is justified by the amount of time I put into them. I can't really afford video games and I definitely can't afford some of the more intensive hobbies I'm interested in (Travelling for rock climbing or simply maintaining my excavation gear prove difficult sometimes) but buying a single blister pack of a model will keep me entertained for hours. I take my time painting and enjoy what I do. For some of my display pieces around the House I may have put in upwards of 40 hours per figure and I reckon that's a good return for my investment. it takes me years to build an army but with patience and careful spending it can be done!

So its not quite a hobby for millionaires, but it is one open to everyone with careful and patient spending, hell a broke student can manage it!

Mate, at your description, you couldn't even look forward to playing out a full game for 4 years. But it sounds like you're more into the painting & collection aspect, which I can understand with that level of income.

You'd be surprised, my Uni has a very active game club and the only GW in the country was a 20 min walk from my old flat. I got plenty of games when I lived there. Everyone was roughly in the same boat, we didn't have the largest collections but what we have is painted and ours if you catch my drift. That said a large number of gamers I know have moved towards collecting in lieu of playing.

Roll on next year when I start my job lined up, the 4 years are definitely worth it!