Importance of filling out your SWC?

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**motyak**

spyguyyoda wrote:
Alpharius wrote:
Annoying?

That may be so, but to what does it refer?

Special Ariadan Service (SAS) with chain rifle (CR) and assault pistol (AP)

**Kanluwen**

spyguyyoda wrote:
Alpharius wrote:
Annoying?

That may be so, but to what does it refer?

SAS with Chain Rifle(CR) and Assault Pistol(AP).

**spyguyyoda**

Ah. SAS CRAP it is.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Thanks!

**Kanluwen**

Yeah. I would personally refer to it as SAS CR/AP just to avoid the whole "SAS CRAP" but eh.

**spyguyyoda**

That makes a lot of sense, but it wouldn't annoy alph nearly as much...

**motyak**

Personally I just don't see the point of the regular chain rifle with light shotgun. It is just 1 point cheaper, and I can't see when I'd prefer that to the chain rifle/assault pistol. So if we all pretend that other profile doesn't exist, we can just say SAS CR and it'll all be better. But you have a point spyguyyoda, the Infinity community does have a long tradition of annoying alph...

Spoiler:

**kestril**

The CR/AP loadout is for hunting. Getting within 8 inches and killing dead one thing. The CR is for reaction shots, so your opponent loses even more models when dealing with the SAS on his turn.

I don't see the shorthand as that annoying, at least. the SAS can be CRAP sometimes

**spyguyyoda**

motyak wrote:
Personally I just don't see the point of the regular chain rifle with light shotgun. It is just 1 point cheaper, and I can't see when I'd prefer that to the chain rifle/assault pistol. So if we all pretend that other profile doesn't exist, we can just say SAS CR and it'll all be better. But you have a point spyguyyoda, the Infinity community does have a long tradition of annoying alph...

Spoiler:

Have an exalt! Though...I was just as annoyed as he was at the lack of a Raicho model...In fact, it put me off playing it for a while :( and now I'm 1.5 hours away from any shop that plays it. I still have 2 armies, though!

Hmm...I suppose I should say something about SWC while I'm trolling...I mean, here...

I never worry too much about SWC other than to worry about not going over. Since I "play" CA (mostly Morats) and Nomads, it kinda fills up on its own...

**Bolognesus**

-Loki- wrote:
Negator80 wrote:
just saying that not making it a priority is silly considering how superior special weapons are to non special.

Except special weapons aren't always superior. A Mk12 does the damage of an HMG at one less burst, and generally costs no SWC. A heavy flamer does considerable direct template damage, and Haqqislam can take them on 14pt, 0 SWC Naffatun.

Another point is, while it's nice putting in things like HMGs and Spitfires, those units tend to also come with a considerable bump in points as well as SWC. Look at the Odalisque - the Spitfire is 1SWC, but 7 more points than the cheapest Odalisque. The Djanbazan HMG is 8pts and 1 SWC more than a Rifle. So simply squeezing in some last SWC on upgrades isn't always preferable if its going to drop your model count to an undesirable level - sometimes leaving out that Spitfire keeps your combat group at 10.

Finally - 'superior' in Infinity isn't as important as it is in say, 40k. The difference between a Meltagun and a Boltgun is so considerable you wouldn't hesitate to upgrade. The difference between a Spitfire and a Rifle isn't as big a difference, you're looking at one more Damage and burst and slightly different range brackets - a rifle will still kill a heavy infantry dead or hurt a TAG with a little luck.

Sure, that extra point of damage (or two) I could give less for; the BS mod in the 16-24" and 24-32/36" brackets often has more of an influence than that and burst combined. Sure, it depends on the tables you play on but there's almost always going to be a long open corridor *somewhere*; IME it's usually involved in quite a bit of fighting.

As for keeping your combat group at ten, well, I wouldn't mind a nine man combat group but with better equipment; if that piece of gear fills a void I'd otherwise leave uncovered in a list, it's well worth it.
10 orders is nice, and often quite attainable but not a completely inflexible requirement. (PanO, aleph, CA etc will find this more often than, say, haqq for example, I believe

)

**-Loki-**

See, that's down to playstyle preference rather than filling out SWC being super important. Some people will take one less special weapon if it lsets them squeeze in that tenth model for another order, while others will drop that tenth model if it lets them squeeze that HMG in.

It doesn't make either side right, it's just differences in playstyle. Which still speaks volumes about the importance (or lack thereof) of making sure SWC is maxed out.

**GrimDork**

Bah, didn't see the second page, I was scratching my chin wondering why nobody had explained SAS CRAP and had to look it up myself. THEN I see the second page

Oh well, cool beans, I guess I'll have to make the Morlock CRAP a thing too :p

**-Loki-**

MorCRAP?

**GrimDork**

Muahahah! I now I get to ask myself if I can fit any MorCRAP into my list! Excellent!

As to the actual topic... I find that most of the lists I've looked into have been 1-2 points short of capping SWC. I think this comes from picking what I like and not optimizing fully. With nomads, it seems easy to do though. Squish a couple of points around and pick up the HMG prowler or take a couple of remotes.

**Bolognesus**

-Loki- wrote:
See, that's down to playstyle preference rather than filling out SWC being super important. Some people will take one less special weapon if it lsets them squeeze in that tenth model for another order, while others will drop that tenth model if it lets them squeeze that HMG in.

It doesn't make either side right, it's just differences in playstyle. Which still speaks volumes about the importance (or lack thereof) of making sure SWC is maxed out.

I think that's pretty much what I said

And yes, you're right: it's certainly not a hard requirement.
I'm sure most will find it's hard to win without a few heavy hitters in the list most of the time, though.

**Pacific**

I think realistically if you have 4 SWC in a 300pt list you will probably be OK, possibly even less. As has been said, it's a limit more easily reached with some factions than others.

**-Loki-**

Bolognesus wrote:
-Loki- wrote:
See, that's down to playstyle preference rather than filling out SWC being super important. Some people will take one less special weapon if it lsets them squeeze in that tenth model for another order, while others will drop that tenth model if it lets them squeeze that HMG in.

It doesn't make either side right, it's just differences in playstyle. Which still speaks volumes about the importance (or lack thereof) of making sure SWC is maxed out.

I think that's pretty much what I said And yes, you're right: it's certainly not a hard requirement.
I'm sure most will find it's hard to win without a few heavy hitters in the list most of the time, though.

Again, the thing is, heavy hitters don't always take SWC, and sometimes don't take much at all. For example, Hassassin Fidays are definitely heavy hitters even without a big gun due to their ability to deploy in an opponents deployment zone and get a turn 1 alpha strike, and none of them cost any SWC. Even Hussein Al Djabel costs no SWC. A Tuareg Sniper has TO Camo, and costs 0.5 SWC. A Lasiq with a Viral Rifle costs no SWC. Heavy hitters aren't always a guy with an autocannon.

It's possible to take a list with 'heavy hitters' and use almost no SWC in some factions.

**Bolognesus**

Fair 'nuff.

**GrimDork**

I haven't gotten to play yet, but I've noticed a trend with most of my lists (and it could just be inexperience talking too). I seem to either run out of SWC fast, and have to start swapping things around because of it, or I only get to about 3 points in the 300 range. Rains/pours kind of thing.

Usually if I try to take both Tsyklon sputniks (and they come in a 2 pack, why wouldn't you?), things get tight in the SWC department fast... but if I stick to demi/humans, I don't use so many. Might be my fondness for the Mk12 sin-eater, or taking a minelayer zero instead of a hmg prowler

**rahxephon**

Being Nomads myself Grimdork, I find it very easy to use up the majority of the SWC with little effort. Its like Loki said, useage varies between factions. In nomads its not too difficult to grab 3 guys and thats my SWC for 300pts. My Haqq opponent on the other hand, often has a bit spare but still beats me about as much as I beat him. If you feel like you've got the diversity of tools to cover your bases you are probably fine.

**Pacific**

Yes Nomads seem to have a lot of SWC eaters.. contrast with Japanese Yu-Jing, beyond the starter box I was looking through the list trying to find something to spend SWC on without running out of points!

**IJW**

Don't forget that SWC is also used as a measure of rarity for some options - for example camo skirmisher LTs tend to cost 2SWC without being heavy hitters.

Also, Doctors used to cost SWC. :(