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Made in us
The Last Chancer Who Survived





Norristown, PA

I'm a little torn trying to think of the best way to handle the mech / pilot stat cards. There's such a small area to work with. I'm thinking like BWG the weapons and upgrades (upgrades = skills) on the back, attributes and name on the front. But, should the name on the card be the name of the pilot, with a picture of the pilot? Or the name of the mech, and a picture of the mech?

In the game world, the pilots are what makes the team.. they're all huge bajillionare celebrities like pro sports people nowadays. But, each pilot has their own mech and pit crew, kind of like auto racing. In many cases they build the mech themselves or at least help plan it's construction or programming. The game piece is going to a mech, so I'm starting to think a "pilot card" might be a little confusing. Should it be like "Joe Shmoe piloting The Punisher" or "The Punisher piloted by Joe Shmoe"

And also ... I kind of like the small playing card sized stat cards mostly because it's easy to put your whole team in a 9-slot baseball card page, or easy to find separate sleeves for protection, and it's just a standard size. But, I'm starting to wonder if maybe it would be better to use larger sized cards for each mech, more along the lines of Dust Tactics, or the character sheets in Descent? Or would that be too big and unwieldy when you have 7 or more models on your team? Just thinking that would allow the space to have all of the stats, weapons and upgrades all on the front so you don't have to flip the card over at all. But then, you wouldn't be able to have any card sleeves... and the reason I care about the sleeves is I wanted to have hit locations.. when you fail your save you roll 1 D6 to see what gets hit, so you can lose weapons instead of armor sometimes. So, having the sleeves you could just mark off damage with dry erase marker instead of messing up your cards.

Anyway .. just seeing if anyone has any preference or ideas Currently planning on the standard sized cards but open to suggestions...

   
Made in gb
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator






Are you set on pilots being in certain mechs? How about the mechs providing a base for the most of the stats, with the pilots skills modifying the stats plus bringing the abilities? So say Light Terran A has Move- X and Defence-Y. Pilot A gives it say a +1 to move and a relavent ability because the pilots a speedfreak say and stripped off the weight. Pilot B ups the defence but maybe lowers the speed slightly. See where i'm gping with this or did i miss your point?

- 1250 points
Empire of the Blazing Sun (Combined Theaters)- 1950 points
FUBAR Starship Troopers- Would you like to know more?
GENERATION 9: The first time you see this, copy and paste it into your sig and add 1 to the number after generation. Consider it a social experiment.  
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






I like the idea of different cards for mechs and pilots. FFG's X-Wing game has different pilot cards players can use to add variety while keeping the miniatures the same and that seems to add a nice level of variety to the game from what I hear.

Eventually you could even just release an expansion pack with different pilots to add more variety.
   
Made in us
The Last Chancer Who Survived





Norristown, PA

Actually thats the way I had it originally. You had your mech stats, and your pilot stats and added them together.. but a few of the testers thought it was too much math and would be much easer to have 1 card to rule it all. So, thinking of it like warmachine where you have a card for each warjack. or BWG where you have a card for each gang member. Just not sure theme-wise if it should be more about the pilot or more about the mech. The fluff and fiction is going to be more about the pilots, but in the game you're playing with their mechs.

I guess I'm thinking of it kind of like the movie Pacific Rim, where the robots had a name like Gypsy Danger, but they were nothing without their pilots. I was thinking of doing the stat cards something like this, but I'd need a much bigger card if I'm gonna get all the info on 1 side. It would probably have to be more like an index card than a playing card.



But then, if I do the bigger cards we could incorporate the pilots maybe like a headshot off to the side the way they do it on TV when they show you football stats. But then.. without a card sleeve I think it will be tougher for people to track damage on their mechs so I would probably have to drop the hit location thing, if there's no way to mark off the damage on your card without messing it up.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Rather than adding stats together maybe the pilots should just add modifiers? Maybe allowing re-rolls for failed tests or adding a die type to a roll? Or having some tests based on the pilots' skills and some on the mechs' attributes?

Aim or reflexes or concentration could be pilot skills and mechs' attributes could modify them. Light mechs add a positive to reflexes, and heavy a negative. Heavy mechs could give a bonus to concentration because they're not going to get knocked around as easily as a light mech.

Just some thoughts.
   
Made in us
The Last Chancer Who Survived





Norristown, PA

Hmm.. yeah that could work. What I was just thinking was that there would be different pilots with different professions, and each profession gives a different upgrade (basically skills) to your mech. I had it like that at first, but took professions out so all upgrades would be based on your CPU level so people could customize things more.

The way I have it now, it's got the same stats as BWG, just renamed. Strength = Power, Quickness = Speed, Stamina = Energy, Intellect = CPU.

Strength is mostly just for melee combat. I used to have have that like BWG where it's the amount of weapons you can have, but I decided to change that too. So now now light mechs can have 3 weapons or equipment (like shield generators or booster jets), mediums get 4 and heavies get 5 (and some day super heavies will get 6 )

speed = how many inches you can move, instead of everyone moving 6 like BWG. And now running is an upgrade you can take, and for lights they can go 3", 2" for medium and 1" for heavies.

Energy is how much power you can devote to weapons, and it gets used up activation, and refreshes in the next game turn. So if your Energy is 5, and you shoot a gun that costs 3, you have 2 points left to shoot something else with a different gun, or boost your shields or whatever.

CPU is just how many upgrades your mech can have.

And then ranged & melee combat are the same as BWG.

Light mechs are like henchmen, and get 10 pts to add to attributes. Mediums = professionals and heavies = gang leaders or hired guns. In your team you get 1 heavy for every 2 mediums, and 1 medium for every 2 lights, so a normal team is 7 models with 4 light mechs, 2 medium mechs and 1 heavy. And 1 medium mech will be the Team Captain who adds +1 to every attribute.

Anyway, I have the test version of the skirmish rules pretty much done for now, so I'll clean them up and post them in the next day or so for anyone that wants to check them out


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Was just thinking, maybe I can include an additional card with each team captain model, kind of like how warmachine has 2 cards for a warcaster. I could add his bonus team skill on there, plus the special team weapon rules, and maybe a little fluff. and the standard pilot card can have the basic weapons & skills for easy reference

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/16 00:46:34


   
Made in us
The Last Chancer Who Survived





Norristown, PA

As usual, life happened, so I didn't get a chance to finish the preview rules.. but they're just about done. mostly just have to format stuff. It will be just the rules though, not much fluff or anything yet. I have the finalized art for each mech now. There's been a few tweaks but the overall design is the same. I'll post the final ones shortly too.

I think I'm going to go with tarot sized cards. Basically gives me an extra inch or so in the height, so I'll have some more room to work with. And you can get sleeves for them too for the players that want that. And I think I'll go with the "pilot's name piloting mech's name" format. But, the art on the front of the card will show the mech, with a headshot box showing the driver's face. Kind of like how they do it on TV nowadays when they're showing you a player's stats or position or whatever. And then like BWG we'll have the attributes on the front, weapons & upgrades on the back.

So I sent the art out to some sculptors now to get some quotes. I was planning to just have 3 sculpts done per team, not including weapons.. so 1 light body, 1 medium and 1 heavy. I think for the lights though, we might have to do each one as a separate pose, so they aren't all exactly the same. That might work for metal, but if we do plastic then they will probably have to be the same. guess I'll see how it goes.

Also thinking about dropping the starter sets from 7 to 5 models.. for costs mostly. So a starter would have 4 lights and 1 medium as the team captain. Then we'd probably sell heavies and mediums separately, and extra light mechs in pairs. That will give us a lower starting costs, and we can unlock the heavies as stretch goals if I can't afford to sculpt them ahead of time.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Sounds like a solid plan.
   
Made in us
The Last Chancer Who Survived





Norristown, PA

Here's a Pilot Card mockup I was messing with. They won't have the starfield background in the end, each one will be a full color pic of the mech, maybe I'll keep it for the back side though.

I thought it might be good to use icons for the different stats instead of text. So top to bottom left to right we have Armor, Shields, Ranged Combat, Melee Combat, Power, Speed, Energy and CPU.

Not sure about the armor and shield icons though... thinking the armor icon should go with the shields, since it's a shield and all... but then, what do I do for armor? Robots don't have hearts. Maybe a + sign like the red cross? it's not really health though, it's armor.

Anyway here it is


   
Made in gb
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator






I like them! Will you be doing blank cards too?

- 1250 points
Empire of the Blazing Sun (Combined Theaters)- 1950 points
FUBAR Starship Troopers- Would you like to know more?
GENERATION 9: The first time you see this, copy and paste it into your sig and add 1 to the number after generation. Consider it a social experiment.  
   
Made in us
The Last Chancer Who Survived





Norristown, PA

Yep.. I'll do blank cards and also a more traditional roster sheet. I think I'm going to have to change up the back of the card a bit, right now I can only fit about 9 different things, but I need to be able to fit up to 13, so there will be room for up to 6 weapons, 6 upgrades and I'd like to add the special team skill to each card too. I might play around with some other layouts, maybe go for horizontal style instead of vertical.

I'd also really like to do an online team builder that will spit your team out into a handy PDF that you can print, or you can just view it online on any device. For BWG too. Programming that is beyond me though and I'd rather spend what little funds I have on the models and stuff right now. Maybe that can be a stretch goal after the models are all funded

I think I'm gonna post the rules tonight. I wanted to get some of the diagrams and stuff done first, but I think it will be better to wait till I can at least get some 3D sculpts done and use them to illustrate stuff better. I'll just keep updating it as I get more stuff done, but the text is all done now.

   
Made in us
The Last Chancer Who Survived





Norristown, PA

OK, as promised, here are the skirmish rules

http://www.blackwatergulch.com/temp/mechadrome-test-v06.pdf

It's all just plain text, about 20 pages. You will see things like "insert diagram here" or "see page ### for whatever" .. that's just for my reference for later when I do the pretty version. I'm going to be working on the pretty version next so it'll be laid out nice, and then once that version is done I'll make a more official announcement about the game and show off all the art on the news sites and stuff. Things are still a little rough right now. For now, if you want to test it out, you'll have to design your own team, and the rules for custom teams is at the end. If you've played BWG you'll see it's pretty much the same exact game, just with robots, and just a few tweaks to the team creation part.

Anyway, I'd love to get any feedback .. you can reply or PM or email me

Next, I changed the pilot cards to landscape format. I think it works much better this way, and I should be able to fit all the info I need on the backs for the bigger mechs that will have more weapons and upgrades.



And, I just got the updated rough drafts of the first 2 team emblems, so here is Team Bushido and Terran Titans. Really liking how they came out.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/21 15:30:04


   
Made in us
The Last Chancer Who Survived





Norristown, PA

Just updated the emblems above, just got cleaner almost final versions. Still not totally finished, but almost there

I think I'm going to change up the mechs as they would be included in the boxes and take more of a "warmachine" approach, and not have each one be an individual pilot. So the main character in your team will be the team captain. Then instead of adding "bill smith piloting this or that mech" you'll just add a "Crusher Medium Mech" or "Annihilator Heavy Mech" .. those mechs will always come with the same weapons and upgrades. A team captain's mech would be based on an pre-existing model, but enhanced with extra upgrades or different weapons and the model itself will have extra detals and stuff. I think it will be easier for me to balance and package everything, and I won't need to print up a bajillion different character cards that way. I'll also be adding "free agents" who are more like a hired gun in BWG, each in their own unique mech that can be added to every team.

You'll still be able to build your own custom teams and mechs though, I'm thinking it might be easier to sell weapon and equipment packs separately for conversions and stuff.

   
Made in us
Old Sourpuss






Lakewood, Ohio

Necros, while I love the idea of hockey jerseys, they're expensive as hell for a small run... like 50 bucks a shirt :-\

DR:80+S++G+M+B+I+Pwmhd11#++D++A++++/sWD-R++++T(S)DM+

Ask me about Brushfire or Endless: Fantasy Tactics 
   
Made in us
The Last Chancer Who Survived





Norristown, PA

Yeah, thats about the best price I could find too. I was just thinking they wouldn't really be something I'd be making a profit on, just ordering them for those that want them and make the price as cheap as I can.. and then maybe make a few bucks if we end up ordering a bunch. Was more like just something fun to do as a 1 time only special thing. I'll be getting a couple done for myself just for con demo gear while I'm at it I could get em for other folks too if anyone wants one.

   
Made in gb
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator






Considered some other kind of sports paraphernalia for it instead? Baseball caps maybe? (I mean in terms of cheaper for yourself, I get the sentiment behind it but theres no sense putting yourself out when you can get a similar sentiment for cheaper)

- 1250 points
Empire of the Blazing Sun (Combined Theaters)- 1950 points
FUBAR Starship Troopers- Would you like to know more?
GENERATION 9: The first time you see this, copy and paste it into your sig and add 1 to the number after generation. Consider it a social experiment.  
   
Made in us
The Last Chancer Who Survived





Norristown, PA

Yep hats could work too. And mugs, keychains, clocks, mouse pads, whatever

Maybe what I can do is set up a cafepress shop or one of those other sites that do custom merch, and folks can get a bunch of different things made if they want it. that's a ways off though, just want to get the game going first.

   
Made in ca
Lit By the Flames of Prospero





Edmonton, Alberta

So far the concept art is interesting.

Any plans for Romen gladiator mecs?
   
Made in us
The Last Chancer Who Survived





Norristown, PA

Yep definitely a possibility Really we can do just about any kind of Mech. I'm starting with some more traditional looking things to get it out there, and we can expand to all kinds of themes. Each team is really just 3 models, a light, medium and heavy. Then you add the different weapons & equipment to make them uniqueish.

So I'm going to be starting off with the Terran Titans and Team Bushido. Next up will be the Redsand Raiders (martian tripod mechs), The Droidstroyers (android/cyborgs), The Buccaneers (space pirates) and the Aphid Swarmers (bug alien bio-mechs).

After that I have some ideas for other teams, but they would probably have to be for season 2

If you stick to all 1 team, you get a preferred weapon upgrade where each team has a certain weapon they can use better than anyone else and get a to hit bonus. But you can also make an "all star" team and have mechs from a bunch of different teams. Kind of like BWG how you can have anyone from any gang fighting together.

   
Made in gb
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator






Like the idea of encouraging team "loyalty". Sounds rather like bonuses from a team sponser company to me :p

- 1250 points
Empire of the Blazing Sun (Combined Theaters)- 1950 points
FUBAR Starship Troopers- Would you like to know more?
GENERATION 9: The first time you see this, copy and paste it into your sig and add 1 to the number after generation. Consider it a social experiment.  
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Careful with using the term "droid." That's a Lucasfilm copyright if I remember correctly.
   
Made in gb
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator






If I remember right that only applies to the straight use of "droid". Extending it out like that should be fine i believe. Hell i'v got final fantasy loaded up at the minute with things like "zwiedroid". Just dont shorted it sown and yo ushould be fine.

- 1250 points
Empire of the Blazing Sun (Combined Theaters)- 1950 points
FUBAR Starship Troopers- Would you like to know more?
GENERATION 9: The first time you see this, copy and paste it into your sig and add 1 to the number after generation. Consider it a social experiment.  
   
Made in us
The Last Chancer Who Survived





Norristown, PA

Hmm.. never knew droid was copyrighted. Does that mean Verizone has to pay uncle george every time someone buys a smartphone?

In the game world they were going to be called "Androids" for some retro goodness, and the team name would be Droidstroyers.

One thing I'm not sure about is the Aphid race, I can't help but think that another game might be using that too, but I can't find anything. Don't want to look like I'm copying, but the I thought the name sounded cool and it's a real kind of bug too

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






 Necros wrote:
Hmm.. never knew droid was copyrighted. Does that mean Verizone has to pay uncle george every time someone buys a smartphone?


Yep.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droid_(robot)#Trademark_use
   
Made in us
The Last Chancer Who Survived





Norristown, PA

Sheesh.. next thing ya know GW will try to copyright space marines. Oh wait...

Not too late to tweak the names a bit so I'll think up something else

So, I just got some estimates from a printer for the boxed game, not even including the miniatures it's gonna be $19,000 for the minimum of 1000 copies. ouch. But then, 2000 copies would be $28k. The more you get the cheaper it becomes.

So yeah, it's not gonna be a boxed game a this point. Maybe later on when the game has been around a while and it has a following big enough to support it and I can do an awesome all plastic uber version. I might still get the game board and cardstock buildings done though.. either a 6 fold board, or would separate 12" squares be better? I was thinking each square would be 1 city block, with a road on all 4 sides, so when it's all together it will look like a small downtown city area. So that's why i was thinking separate tiles would be more flexible, but would it be a pain if it's not a 1 piece thing and easy to knock around if they're separate?

Also thinking about the bases. I was going to go with square bases for the board game version, and have a grid for movement, but as a normal skirmish game maybe I can stick with round? I kind of liked also having the flat front for the firing arc, it's 180 degrees along the front edge of your base, so it's easy to figure out where the line is. With round bases it would have to be "draw an imaginary line across your base" like BWG. I like the look of round bases better, but I thought squares would make things a little easier. Kind of torn now.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/22 16:51:12


   
Made in gb
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator






Hell even motorola did back in the day
http://www.pcpro.co.uk/blogs/2009/11/06/motorola-pays-lucas-for-its-droid/

But Android should be fine, the only thing you have to do is avoid shortening it to just "droid" in the official material.

Liking the sound of progress so far, and let's be honest anyone who nitpicks over lack of a 2 player box set is going to be the minority. As long as the kickstarter gives some models and the retail lets you buy in packs, who cares?

Have you considered going for a medium between the two, namely hex bases? If it had to be one or the other, i'd vote for rounded. It's unusual to see square bases on anything outside of fantasy games that need things to line up in rank if I recall?


- 1250 points
Empire of the Blazing Sun (Combined Theaters)- 1950 points
FUBAR Starship Troopers- Would you like to know more?
GENERATION 9: The first time you see this, copy and paste it into your sig and add 1 to the number after generation. Consider it a social experiment.  
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






What was the scale going to be? Games and Gears has their Kickstarter with 10mm city tiles.
   
Made in us
The Last Chancer Who Survived





Norristown, PA

this is going to be more like 15mm scale, but the light mechs will end up being the same size as your average 28-30mm mini. Mediums around 40mm tall and heavies around 50mm.

I don't mind the hex bases, they could work, but I haven't found many in different sizes already available. They seem to all be about 25-30mm, but I'm going to need bigger ones for the heavy mechs. But then, I could probably get Ken at proxie models to make custom sized bases if I end up needing them. I saw heavy gear uses hexes though, and battletech. So I thought round would be better so I'm not copying I kind of would like to stick with the rounded edge warmachine style bases though, since it's what BWG uses and it would be more efficient to stick with one kind for all games... even though I'm not a fan of ordering them from the UK.. mostly because I'm just too impatient to wait for the shipping

   
Made in us
The Last Chancer Who Survived





Norristown, PA

I've been thinking about team building, wondering if maybe it would work better with a 40k style force organization chart kind of thing, but not as strict?

The way it works now is you can take whatever you want in your team, but you need 2 light mechs for each medium mech on your team, and 2 medium mechs for each heavy you take. So if you want just 1 heavy, your team will be at least 1 heavy mech, 2 medium mechs and 4 light mechs. I'm thinking that will be what the average team would be like.

What I'm thinking now is you could have multiple team captains or squadron leader types. Each one will have a certain amount of slots open for adding mechs to your team. Each slot = 1 medium mech, or 2 light mechs, and you need 2 slots for 1 heavy. So the team captain gets 5, squad leaders get 2, so a big team with a captain and 2 squad leaders would have 9 slots to fill with stuff.

Team captains have a special skill available to any friendly mech within 12", squad leaders can extend the captain's ability range and wherever they are on the board, any mech in 6" can use the captain's skill even if the captain is way on the other side of the board. I think the squad leaders would only really be for larger games though, a team captain will still be able to field a full team of 1 heavy, 2 total mediums and 4 lights. Or you could mix it up and do all light mechs or all mediums, or 2 heavies and 1 medium. Just thinking it this way would give players more options.

The fame point values will still be the same, so you can play against a team with the same amount of fame for an evenly matched game. heavies are 4 points, mediums and 2, lights are 1, and your team captain and any squad leaders are +1 point.

What do you think of that idea? I was just thinking it would be more flexible and a good way to expand your teams for larger games. I still think a good team size will be around 10 models though, like BWG. But some folks like to play big games.

   
Made in gb
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator






Normally i'm actually a fan of FOC charts, however with only 3 types of unit i'd have said it seem's really restrictive, both for players and for any canon teams you want to make without the use of exception rules. Say one of the teams favors the use of light mechs, preferring speed and hit and run tactics or weight of numbers, or a team who favors heavily armoured behemoths.

However, with it being like BWG mechanically it may work out rather well, but i'd say keep it in mind. Theme wise, it isn't Big Damn Heroes>Leader>bunch of mooks. It's a team sports game (with stompy robots) so yeah, just keep that in mind depending on which you lean towards as more important with this, how it plays mechanically or as an experience so to speak.

- 1250 points
Empire of the Blazing Sun (Combined Theaters)- 1950 points
FUBAR Starship Troopers- Would you like to know more?
GENERATION 9: The first time you see this, copy and paste it into your sig and add 1 to the number after generation. Consider it a social experiment.  
   
 
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