Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

What is the probability of Russian troops moving in to "restore order" and never leave?

 Grey Templar wrote:
What is the probability of Russian troops moving in to "restore order" and never leave?

With the Olympics in 2 weeks?

Zero.

Why would they need to restore order? In the end the Ukraine government is likely to win, in which case the Ukraine remains a Russian puppet state.

If it fails, they can welcome the new Ukrainian government with a nice benefits package, because the people who end up in the new government are the same kind of people already there.

 LordofHats wrote:
Why would they need to restore order? In the end the Ukraine government is likely to win, in which case the Ukraine remains a Russian puppet state.

If it fails, they can welcome the new Ukrainian government with a nice benefits package, because the people who end up in the new government are the same kind of people already there.

I was present for one government overthrow in Kyrgyzstan, and I was in country just a couple months after their second, so I've seen first hand how this stuff goes down in this old Soviet Satellites.

Current Ukraine Pres is done for, he's got a few days left at most, he'll flee to Russia and become a refugee. The new (anti-russian) government will still be held up by significant portions of the government that are pro-Russia. In the end someone just as corrupt will take office, and little will actually change overall.

I really hope they free the former Prime Minister as soon as he's toppled (and it really does drive home how bloody tasteless the Brother Vinni miniature of the 'ukrainian slave girl' was, I am definitely never going to put any money that guy's way).

I took a look today (7am EST) at our glorious Umerican 'news' websites to see who's covering what and compare them with some foreign/international ones:

CNN: Headline: Teacher in Pot Controversy, no mention at all on the news page.
NBC: Headline: Flying robots could solve crime, no mention at all on the news page.
Fox News: Headline: Potential Terrorism at Olympics, YES: Ukraine is mentioned down in the footnotes!

Google News: YES: second story down, with pictures.
Yahoo News: YES: third headline story, with pictures.
The BBC: Top story, main feature.
Al Jazeera: YES: second story down, 'international' headlining story.
Reuters World: YES: Video headline.

So the only major american news channel to feature this important story was Fox... in it's footnotes... But all the same channels featured cover stories about Justin Beiber. Goes to show what a lot of horse gak gets fed to us as news here. CNN really can go die in a fire these days, what a worthless pile of drivel that network has become.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
NBC: Headline: Flying robots could solve crime, no mention at all on the news page.

No matter what goes on in the world, this is far more news worthy

 Grey Templar wrote:
What is the probability of Russian troops moving in to "restore order" and never leave?

You mean like South Ossetia?

@MeanGreenStompa

People don't want to hear about problems, let alone someone else's. =/

http://rt.com/news/

Ukraine's president offers opposition leader prime minister post

Ukrainian President Victor Yanukovich has proposed the post of prime minister to the head of the “Batkivschina” (Fatherland) opposition party, Arseniy Yatsenyuk, the justice minister said after the president’s meeting with opposition leaders.

"The president offered the post of prime minister to Arseny Yatsenyuk. In the case of the latter's consent to take the post, the president of Ukraine will decide on the resignation of the government,” Minister Elena Lukash said.

Vitaly Klitchko, head of the Ukrainian Democratic Alliance for Reform party, was offered the post of deputy prime minister for humanitarian affairs.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:

So the only major american news channel to feature this important story was Fox...

This isn't an important news story.

 dogma wrote:

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:

So the only major american news channel to feature this important story was Fox...

This isn't an important news story.

What you did there... Justin saw it!

It's reasonably important...
It's at least as important as some random teacher smoking weed and the possibility of flying crime solving robots (However awesome that second one sounds)

 purplefood wrote:
It's reasonably important...
It's at least as important as some random teacher smoking weed and the possibility of flying crime solving robots (However awesome that second one sounds)

More important than Justin Bieber getting nicked in a car, I would have thought.

 loki old fart wrote:

 purplefood wrote:
It's reasonably important...
It's at least as important as some random teacher smoking weed and the possibility of flying crime solving robots (However awesome that second one sounds)

More important than Justin Bieber getting nicked in a car, I would have thought.

Probably yeah.

 d-usa wrote:

 Weltenwolf wrote:
This is really featured in german news? I only see one of the Klitschkos every second day, but not much more. Which channel should I try to get more?

I check Spiegel.de on a daily basis and they have been talking about it.

Now granted it's not "top of the page" headline news, but it's usually not far down from the top. I don't think I have seen it mentioned on the front page of CNN.com at all.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 McNinja wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
What's more amazing is how this has pretty much gotten minimal attention on the news over here. I've been following it via the German news, but in the US this is hardly mentioned.

I actually had no idea until a friend of mine posted something about it on facebook. The fact that fething SNOW gets more attention than world-changing events goes to show how dissociated the US media is from the rest of the world.

The news interrupted one of our politicians giving an interview to break the story of Bieber getting arrested...

When ever I hear someone call it "the news" nowadays, images of the news as described in 1984 or Michael Myers talking about the papers his mother read in "So I married an Axe Murderer" flash in my mind.

 McNinja wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
What's more amazing is how this has pretty much gotten minimal attention on the news over here. I've been following it via the German news, but in the US this is hardly mentioned.

I actually had no idea until a friend of mine posted something about it on facebook. The fact that fething SNOW gets more attention than world-changing events goes to show how dissociated the US media is from the rest of the world.

is that a surprise?

we had the current administration using the IRS to target and destroy political opposition, funneling firearms to mexican drug cartels in an attempt to bolster anti-gun/super gun control support (explain that irony), pass garbage healthcare legislation at a time when 75% of the country didn't want it, then force a government shutdown instead of delaying the healthcare law which mind you wasn't ready at launch and still isn't ready. have 4 US personnel including an ambassador killed over sea's, the first one in 30 years, immediate blame it on some guy who made a video, when in fact they knew it was al Qaeda that attacked the compound. then go on 5 different news networks and lie to the american people. All these things could get the president impeached mind you. and none of it ever caught steam on the major news networks.

but a governor from NJ has a few lanes on a bridge closed down causes a traffic jam and its everywhere, to include an immediate response from the justice department to start a full blown investigation.

"The news"'just flows off the tongue easier than "ministry of truth, propaganda, and compliance"...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Edit: another one?

 purplefood wrote:
It's reasonably important...

It is quite important to Europeans, but not especially important to Americans; hence the lack of coverage by American news outlets.

Mother Russia....

The country will probably split in two shortly.

 Ketara wrote:
The country will probably split in two shortly.

I would nominate the newly disjointed former part of Ukraine the Potable Republic of Nemiroff.

Other names to consider:

Horilka
Khortytsa

Eurovision this year is going to be a fething mess.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Eurovision this year is going to be a fething mess.

Usually it's so fair and impartial...

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Eurovision this year is going to be a fething mess.

Same as usual then

Johnnytorrance wrote:
is that a surprise?

we had the current administration using the IRS to target and destroy political opposition

Fair amount of hyperbole there. From the Wall Street Journal: "The newspaper quoted officials as saying that investigators probing the IRS actions, which unleashed a political furor in Washington, did not uncover the type of political bias or "enemy hunting" that would constitute a criminal violation. The evidence showed a mismanaged agency enforcing rules it did not understand on applications for tax exemptions, the Journal reported."

funneling firearms to mexican drug cartels in an attempt to bolster anti-gun/super gun control support (explain that irony)

Project Fast and Furious was not an attempt to bolster anti-gun or "super" gun control. As stupid as Project Gunrunner was, it happened when President Bush was in office with Project Wide Receiver and again during Project Fast and Furious when Obama was in office. It's almost as bad as giving weapons to the Contras after it was outlawed by Congress, right?

pass garbage healthcare legislation at a time when 75% of the country didn't want it, then force a government shutdown instead of delaying the healthcare law which mind you wasn't ready at launch and still isn't ready

Passing laws you don't like isn't grounds for impeachment. Sorry.

have 4 US personnel including an ambassador killed over sea's, the first one in 30 years, immediate blame it on some guy who made a video, when in fact they knew it was al Qaeda that attacked the compound. then go on 5 different news networks and lie to the american people

Yes, it's terrible that happened. You know what else is terrible? Using those same 4 dead American as pawns in a hyper-partisan battle. By your logic, any President should be impeached if terrorist kill Americans. So I guess President Reagan should have been impeached when the Marine Corps barracks in Beirut were bombed in 1983 or when Americans were killed in the Berlin discotheque bombing in 1986? Or how about that whole September 11, 2001 thing?

All these things could get the president impeached mind you

No. Having sexual relations with an intern is how to get impeached.

and none of it ever caught steam on the major news networks.

You're right, none of the major news networks had covered those stories ad nauseam.

but a governor from NJ has a few lanes on a bridge closed down causes a traffic jam and its everywhere, to include an immediate response from the justice department to start a full blown investigation.

The story broke on January 8th and federal subpoenas were issued by US attorney's office in New Jersey on January 23rd, hardly "immediate." Plus, an investigation is rightly deserved and hopefully for Chris Christie, he is cleared of any wrongdoing.

Move along.

Johnnytorrance wrote:
All these things could get the president impeached mind you.

None of the things you outlined involve impeachable offenses.

Johnnytorrance wrote:

and none of it ever caught steam on the major news networks.

Are you really trying to claim that healthcare reform and Benghazi were never covered by mainstream news outlets?

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

No. Having sexual relations with an intern is how to get impeached.

Nah, committing perjury is.

 dogma wrote:

No. Having sexual relations with an intern is how to get impeached.

Nah, committing perjury is.

 dogma wrote:

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

No. Having sexual relations with an intern is how to get impeached.

Nah, committing perjury is.

Yeah, it's called sarcasm.

Besides, if you want to get technical about it, he was impeached for perjury and obstruction of justice.

 Blacksails wrote:

 LordofHats wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
On the other hand, the opposition is partially neo-nazis as well. There's some rather unsavory types on both sides.

It's a third world country. You pick whoever you'd rather see in charge and pretend their heroes of liberty regardless of truth

Second world technically.

*Edit* Damnit, I wasted my 3000th post on a correction!

Actually, it isn't second world anymore as the second world ceased to exist after the Cold War. The 'three worlds theory' is pretty much outdated and invalid at this point, but if we still were to use it, Ukraine is much closer to the first world than it is to the third world.
People really need to come up with a new term for the area. Former Soviet Union is really getting outdated.


Aside from that, it is important to remember that the protesters in Kiev do not represent the entire Ukrainian people. They only represent the Western half of the country which is usually in favor of stronger ties to the EU, while the East and South are usually in favor of stronger ties to Russia.
Also, Yanukovich's government was democratically elected, so I would say that they are the most democratic side here. If the protesters disagree with the government, they should wait until the next election. That is how it is supposed to go in a democracy,
Protesting is a perfectly fine way to show your disagreement, but the barbaric way in which the protesters act is unworthy of a democracy. The same goes for the government's reaction.
They should all sit down, have nice tea and biscuits (or vodka and varenyky in this case) and discuss the matter in a civilized way.

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:

 LordofHats wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
On the other hand, the opposition is partially neo-nazis as well. There's some rather unsavory types on both sides.

It's a third world country. You pick whoever you'd rather see in charge and pretend their heroes of liberty regardless of truth

Second world technically.

*Edit* Damnit, I wasted my 3000th post on a correction!

Actually, it isn't second world anymore as the second world ceased to exist after the Cold War. The 'three worlds theory' is pretty much outdated and invalid at this point, but if we still were to use it, Ukraine is much closer to the first world than it is to the third world.
People really need to come up with a new term for the area. Former Soviet Union is really getting outdated.


Aside from that, it is important to remember that the protesters in Kiev do not represent the entire Ukrainian people. They only represent the Western half of the country which is usually in favor of stronger ties to the EU, while the East and South are usually in favor of stronger ties to Russia.
Also, Yanukovich's government was democratically elected, so I would say that they are the most democratic side here. If the protesters disagree with the government, they should wait until the next election. That is how it is supposed to go in a democracy,
Protesting is a perfectly fine way to show your disagreement, but the barbaric way in which the protesters act is unworthy of a democracy. The same goes for the government's reaction.
They should all sit down, have nice tea and biscuits (or vodka and varenyky in this case) and discuss the matter in a civilized way.

Democraticly elected and then imprisoned his main political rival.