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My book has arrived early, so if you have any specific questions I might be able to look them up.

Note the stats are only those that are in the new starter boxes; as it's not actually released yet the PDF with all the stats isn't out at the moment.

For the DW2.0.. will they provide new/updated cards for units already owed? Well that be a download or is the "complete unit list" in the rulebook Daba?

I LIKE the new starter, but since both of my current fleets are FS and EotBS, will I have tons of duplication?

I love the models, but the rules... So badly laid out, so many exploding 6's. Might get the resculpted models, as it appears every core nation is being redone.

 Daba wrote:
My book has arrived early, so if you have any specific questions I might be able to look them up.

Hmm, I do have a few:

Are carriers more viable--specifically, is it now worthwhile to actually land on them? Before, flyers seemed to die so quickly that it was never worth the extra turns needed to land and relaunch them.

Are there a good selection of scenarios or missions?

Are special rules still a big vaguely named list that you need to keep flipping back to to check the difference between, say Destructive Ordnance, Bunker Buster and High Velocity Rounds. Or are they detailed in the model descriptions, or otherwise easier to use?

>For the DW2.0.. will they provide new/updated cards for units already owed? Well that be a download or is the "complete unit list" in the rulebook Daba?

I don't know this information from the rulebook itself, but if it was like the 2.0 Firestorm Armada one, all existing main faction units will be put online PDF on release. The Rulebook has quite a few units, but if they all appeared the size of the book will double.

>I LIKE the new starter, but since both of my current fleets are FS and EotBS, will I have tons of duplication?

Depends on what you own already. New ships include the Heavy Battleship (new class), new Cruisers (old Cruisers are a different class with different stats to the new ones) for both sides. Both include units like Terror Ships and Submarines, and I'm not sure if these were released before (they were not in the original starter, but later releases or boxes if they were one)

Frigates and Corevettes are the same, and both sides come with a squad of each.

>Are carriers more viable--specifically, is it now worthwhile to actually land on them? Before, flyers seemed to die so quickly that it was never worth the extra turns needed to land and relaunch them.

Small flyer and carriers are totally changed. You don't land on carriers at all any more (or rather, it's abstracted):

Carriers have the Carrier (x) special rule, which grants you (x) extra flyer tokens deployed within 4" of the carrier when starting but are otherwise an independent unit. The Carrier Value then allows the Carrier (during it's activation) to replenish, re-arm and re-task a flyer squadron within 4", which it can do up to it's carrier points - replenish will cost 1 carrier point per token replenished (up to it's starting size), re-arm costs 2 points and the whole squad is re-armed for a bombing run, re-task costs 3 and changes the squad to a different type (e.g. Torpedo Bombers -> Dive Bombers).

Carrier points are 6 for most if not all of the new carriers and the flying carriers, and degrades with damage.

Recon planes cannot be affected by Carriers, but they are only ever a single token (the carrier can still 'buy' you a single recon plane), and don't have anything to re-arm.

>Are there a good selection of scenarios or missions?

Each player rolls/draws (in secret) separately for their mission (there are 5, one result lets you pick so 6 total), but can default to destroy enemy to 70% victory points mission (but if they do, reveals this to the opponent). There are cards that you choose at the start of the game which give a once per game benefit with the cost of giving your opponent victory points (you choose, not randomised) but these haven't been released yet - they are coming with the other units statas on release like FSA (I think these are optional).

However, scenario selection isn't as varied as in Firestorm Armada 2.0 IMO.

>Are special rules still a big vaguely named list that you need to keep flipping back to to check the difference between, say Destructive Ordnance, Bunker Buster and High Velocity Rounds. Or are they detailed in the model descriptions, or otherwise easier to use?

All special rules, ammo types and generators are each in a list in the rulebook, they are not in the army list (but I don't know anyone who does this since 3rd/4th edition 40k). However, they are all around the same area of the book (apart from Special Ammo which is in the shooting rules a few pages back, as are the weapon types and how you resolve them), and indexable at least.

 Daba wrote:
All special rules, ammo types and generators are each in a list in the rulebook, they are not in the army list (but I don't know anyone who does this since 3rd/4th edition 40k). However, they are all around the same area of the book (apart from Special Ammo which is in the shooting rules a few pages back, as are the weapon types and how you resolve them), and indexable at least.

Warmachine and Malifaux both have special rules in the unit descriptions, and I think I may have been a bit spoiled. That said, it should be easy enough to write up a reference sheet if there isn't already one.

Thanks for the answers; it sounds like a distinct improvement.

 Elemental wrote:

 Daba wrote:
My book has arrived early, so if you have any specific questions I might be able to look them up.

Hmm, I do have a few:

Are carriers more viable--specifically, is it now worthwhile to actually land on them? Before, flyers seemed to die so quickly that it was never worth the extra turns needed to land and relaunch them.

Are there a good selection of scenarios or missions?

Are special rules still a big vaguely named list that you need to keep flipping back to to check the difference between, say Destructive Ordnance, Bunker Buster and High Velocity Rounds. Or are they detailed in the model descriptions, or otherwise easier to use?

Also on the special rules, one of the big pushes with V2.0 was to completely prune out the special rule list. If I heard correctly they took the special rule list from around 200 different rules to around 70.

Therefore instead of having Devastating Ordnance, Destructive Ordnance, High Velocity Rounds, and Bunker Busters you just have Devastating Ordnance and Piercing Munitions.

Pruning is good overall, but that could have been alleviated earlier with better use of the unit stat cards they had.

Speaking of which, those stat cards they included with minis were quite a waste back in the 1.0 days. The back was unused, and you didn't have things like checkboxes for special damage, etc.

With 2.0, are they doing more with them?

 Vertrucio wrote:
Pruning is good overall, but that could have been alleviated earlier with better use of the unit stat cards they had.

Speaking of which, those stat cards they included with minis were quite a waste back in the 1.0 days. The back was unused, and you didn't have things like checkboxes for special damage, etc.

With 2.0, are they doing more with them?

They stopped shipping them a while ago, I believe. There's some better-designed alternatives available from one of their forum regulars that are pretty nice and have more useful info.

I did like having the cards for reference, although I seemed to get a lot of mis-packs on them.

I assume (if it is like their FSA 2.0 release) they will release a PDF for each faction that has the entire faction stats in it.

I think they will also release books which will include one for Britannia, FSA and Russian Coalition (+ maybe their ally fleets), one for Prussia, Blazing Sun and Republique of France (+ maybe their ally fleets) and one for Covenant + their allies/independent nations.

One of the community members has designed a better set of stat cards than the official ones, so rather than slapping him with a C&D spartan games gave him a job.

I do hope they clean up the ally rules a bit. They were somewhat awkward last I checked, with a few semi-related systems in the same rule set.

Stats are out on the Spartan website now: http://www.spartangames.co.uk/resources/downloads

Loving the stat updates so far. The general fixes to mediums (much like what we saw in FS2.0) look to do the trick. Designating the old cruiser designs as light was a good idea and gives them a definite role (along with a general cost decrease as well).

Larges got a price bump across the board and those that needed love were given it. The Magenta and Emperor battleships look worthwhile to field now. The former can throw out a staggering number of dice compared to the old version, the latter is able to be fielded as a gunnery threat or as a tough, CQB threat that can make maximum use of its speed while also getting a nice boost from a hefty shield generator.

It definitely looks like FSA took a nerf in several places, but they also got buffed along a more specialized line. The changes remind me a lot of the Dindrenzi in FS2.0 with them getting nerfed in areas they shouldn't be good in while retaining a real specialty. They also pay for things like Shield Generators as they should, making other generators look like worthwhile options again. They are still a nasty ranged faction, but they pay an appropriate cost and aren't also the premier boarding faction as well.

Can't wait to have my rulebook in hand so I can figure out more of the nuances outside of the gross statistical stuff that is easy to parse.

But either way, a lot of internal balance issues in each list has been fixed, or so it seems.

A lot of Prussian units I wouldn't have touched before are now going to feature in my lists much more regularly. I never thought I'd see the day when I would say "hey Ronin, you should totally field an Emperor battleship with a turret dropped for a shield generator!"

But looking over the stats... That is exactly what is getting dropped in my first list (playing a classic starter-only game). It has decent AD at any given range band, and for the opportunity cost of giving up on that rear turret, I get 3 shield dice (~2.4 DR/CR on average). So the thing is now fast (internal tesla generator), still packs a wallop to the front (manages 9AD out to RB3 and can move full forward each turn), and is bloody tough (6/11 with 3 shield dice). Drop elite crew on to it and you now have a nasty fast-attack threat. And the Imperium looks all kinds of fieldable now. The big Yamato Cannon tesla on the front no longer loses any dice if it takes damage (and packs 12/10/8/6 on its own), it is still tougher than a battleship, and it has all around decent attacks. The new way bombs are handled (shorter range but 360 degree arc) also means that nasty bay of tesla bombs (it has 3 6AD attacks) will actually see use a few times each game. Not something you want getting close.

I really can't wait to get a game in with my Prussians now.

Redoubtable on Brittanians alone means that your gunnery isn't totally wrecked after 1 HP loss.

Yeah, that was a great decision for such a turret-dependant faction. Along with the changes to how linking works (only weapons link, not ships, and all rounding is up) they are fairly scary.

Is the exploding dice mechanic still unchanged in this edition?

There are exploding device, but there are cases where you don't use it.

Still used, but it has further steps. You have Black 6's that cause a single hit and no re-roll (mostly used for specialized purposes where exploding dice would cause wonky edge case handling). Then you have Blue 6's which cause two hits and no re-roll. These are mostly used when something doesn't work quite as well at a given task. Rockets and torpedoes force shields to roll using blue dice, for instance. Finally you have the Red 6 which is two hits and a re-roll.

The main thing they have done to make the exploding dice system a bit more workable is a re-work of the crit chart. DW2.0 no longer has any insta-killing crits on the table. The worst one will still hurt, but even a cruiser or heavy cruiser can survive it if it has the spare HP.

So they are no longer double-stuffing their ability to cause misery to a single vessel by allowing exploding dice to gain a (statistically unlikely) multi-crit on a large vessel while also allowing for a one-shot-kill due to a bad crit roll.

In the end, just the exploding dice mechanic still allows the system to represent things like the lucky shot that crippled the Bismark, but without the potential for multi-crits to unceremoniously cause a perfectly healthy ship to explode.

Either way, the number of dice being rolled actually makes the exploding pool, on its own, fairly predictable. The main trouble with it was that most previous versions of Spartan games had one or more insta-kill critical results that could erase a completely undamaged ship from the game and basically tip the results overwhelmingly in the other guy's favour.

With rules like redoubtable, the full integration of specialized deployment rules (flanking and advanced deployment) the game has become less cut and dry about both range management and concepts like the "damage race" where getting a few points of damage on your opponent at long range snowballed to a late-game firepower advantage.

With insta-kill crits out of the way, the exploding dice are free to become the games "critical" mechanic. And taken on a whole, with the general predictability created by the large pool (each die being worth ~0.8 successes on an average roll, ~0.6 if you have a -1 to hit) the crits are far less deadly than, say, Infinity, where things like the HMG will basically auto-wound a target 18% of the time it is fired in the active turn. The main source of capricious, game-wrecking randomness was in the critical table and it was snowballed by the concept of multi-crits which gave it more chances of happening each game.

So the game still has that edge of randomness to allow for snowballing damage to be represented via multi-crits, but it also punishes damaged ships far less than it did (more forgiving linking, better tertiary weapons, redoubtable being more common, and ships being able to skip in to optimal range bands via reserve deployment methods).

Fixing that crit table has fixed a lot of the issues with the exploding dice and the damage threshold system feeding in to each other and creating a positive feedback mechanic that made insta-kills far too common.

Wow, thanks for the write up. I can't wait to get my hands on my 2.0 stuff.

 Ronin_eX wrote:
Still used, but it has further steps. You have Black 6's that cause a single hit and no re-roll (mostly used for specialized purposes where exploding dice would cause wonky edge case handling). Then you have Blue 6's which cause two hits and no re-roll. These are mostly used when something doesn't work quite as well at a given task. Rockets and torpedoes force shields to roll using blue dice, for instance. Finally you have the Red 6 which is two hits and a re-roll.

The main thing they have done to make the exploding dice system a bit more workable is a re-work of the crit chart. DW2.0 no longer has any insta-killing crits on the table. The worst one will still hurt, but even a cruiser or heavy cruiser can survive it if it has the spare HP.

So they are no longer double-stuffing their ability to cause misery to a single vessel by allowing exploding dice to gain a (statistically unlikely) multi-crit on a large vessel while also allowing for a one-shot-kill due to a bad crit roll.

In the end, just the exploding dice mechanic still allows the system to represent things like the lucky shot that crippled the Bismark, but without the potential for multi-crits to unceremoniously cause a perfectly healthy ship to explode.

Either way, the number of dice being rolled actually makes the exploding pool, on its own, fairly predictable. The main trouble with it was that most previous versions of Spartan games had one or more insta-kill critical results that could erase a completely undamaged ship from the game and basically tip the results overwhelmingly in the other guy's favour.

With rules like redoubtable, the full integration of specialized deployment rules (flanking and advanced deployment) the game has become less cut and dry about both range management and concepts like the "damage race" where getting a few points of damage on your opponent at long range snowballed to a late-game firepower advantage.

With insta-kill crits out of the way, the exploding dice are free to become the games "critical" mechanic. And taken on a whole, with the general predictability created by the large pool (each die being worth ~0.8 successes on an average roll, ~0.6 if you have a -1 to hit) the crits are far less deadly than, say, Infinity, where things like the HMG will basically auto-wound a target 18% of the time it is fired in the active turn. The main source of capricious, game-wrecking randomness was in the critical table and it was snowballed by the concept of multi-crits which gave it more chances of happening each game.

So the game still has that edge of randomness to allow for snowballing damage to be represented via multi-crits, but it also punishes damaged ships far less than it did (more forgiving linking, better tertiary weapons, redoubtable being more common, and ships being able to skip in to optimal range bands via reserve deployment methods).

Fixing that crit table has fixed a lot of the issues with the exploding dice and the damage threshold system feeding in to each other and creating a positive feedback mechanic that made insta-kills far too common.

Wow, thank you very much for that write up!

Several people over here dropped the game because of the exploding dice mechanic and because of those random insta-kills that you've mentioned. Hopefully I'll be able to convince them to give the game another try now that those instances have been removed from the game.

My two starter sets came through. Stunning models as always, big fan of the Blazing Sun redesigns and the Federated sub carrier. Might have to get into it again. The air models and minor nations always appealed more though.

Thanks very much for the write-ups guys!

Very useful, and now another new rulebook for me to learn it seems