Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

As above. That turn is explicit.

But the rule still doesn't apply until you DO fire it. How does it apply retroactively? And you say that it is "all clear" when there is obviously some confusion on the matter thus YMDC.

With 7th's new shooting phase of weapon orders there really isn't any problem with shooting other weapons first at full BS because you haven't fired an Ordnance weapon. The rule only applies once you fire an Ordnance weapon because fireing the Ordnance weapon is the trigger to cause all other weapons to be snap shots that turn.

Are there any other rules that work retroactively like this? and if so what are they because i am very curious if this is a stand alone case.

Oberron wrote:
But the rule still doesn't apply until you DO fire it. How does it apply retroactively? And you say that it is "all clear" when there is obviously some confusion on the matter thus YMDC.

With 7th's new shooting phase of weapon orders there really isn't any problem with shooting other weapons first at full BS because you haven't fired an Ordnance weapon. The rule only applies once you fire an Ordnance weapon because fireing the Ordnance weapon is the trigger to cause all other weapons to be snap shots that turn.

Are there any other rules that work retroactively like this? and if so what are they because i am very curious if this is a stand alone case.

it applies retroactively in a very simple way: if you fire any other weapons at full BS first, you have made the decision not to fire your ordnance weapon(s).

 Kommissar Kel wrote:


it applies retroactively in a very simple way: if you fire any other weapons at full BS first, you have made the decision not to fire your ordnance weapon(s).

What is the rule that supports this?

i select a weapon, roll to hit,roll to wound, allocate wounds, select a new weapon, i select my ordnance. What rule is forbidding me to fire it? The ordnance rules tells us that if we fire it "X" happens. there are no rules that i am aware of that say we can't fire it if its a vehicle.

Also i found this little gem thumbing through the new BRB. page 41 "... Ordnance weapons cannot fire Snap Shots." Then on page 73 "A vehicle that moved at cruising speed can still Snap Shoot Ordnance but can't fire any Ordnance weapond that can't be fired snap shot." soooooo why is that last line existing or why is the line on page 41 existing?

If you fire an an Ordinance weapon and all other weapons at full BS, do you break the rule?

Simple yes or no answer is sufficient.

Oberron wrote:

 Kommissar Kel wrote:


it applies retroactively in a very simple way: if you fire any other weapons at full BS first, you have made the decision not to fire your ordnance weapon(s).

What is the rule that supports this?

i select a weapon, roll to hit,roll to wound, allocate wounds, select a new weapon, i select my ordnance. What rule is forbidding me to fire it? The ordnance rules tells us that if we fire it "X" happens. there are no rules that i am aware of that say we can't fire it if its a vehicle.

Also i found this little gem thumbing through the new BRB. page 41 "... Ordnance weapons cannot fire Snap Shots." Then on page 73 "A vehicle that moved at cruising speed can still Snap Shoot Ordnance but can't fire any Ordnance weapond that can't be fired snap shot." soooooo why is that last line existing or why is the line on page 41 existing?

The 1 rule that does not need to be printed: Break no rule.

I noticed that as well, and guess what, it makes perfect sense.

you are generally not allowed to snap-fire Ordnance.

Vehicles remove that restriction.

Most Ordnance weapons have Blast; Blast weapons cannot Snap Fire.

So you can snap fire ordnance even though the general rule says you cannot via specific permission. You cannot however snap-fire Blast ordnance(nor template if there are any), these would be ordance weapons that cannot be snap fired.

Oberron wrote:

 Kommissar Kel wrote:

it applies retroactively in a very simple way: if you fire any other weapons at full BS first, you have made the decision not to fire your ordnance weapon(s).

What is the rule that supports this?
i select a weapon, roll to hit,roll to wound, allocate wounds, select a new weapon, i select my ordnance. What rule is forbidding me to fire it?

The rule that says that if you fire an Ordnance weapon, all other weapons fired that turn must be fired as Snap Shots. It is not possible to fire the Ordnance in your example without breaking that rule. Ergo, you can't fire the Ordnance. It's really very simple.

*edit* removed snark

Oberron you're missing a critical point.

You're interpreting it as if it read "you cannot fire other weapons at full bs if you've fired your ordinance weapon"

It doesn't say that. It says "... a vehicle that fires an Ordnance weapon can only make Snap Shots with it's other weapons that turn."

You'll kindly note that this is not an if/then conditional. It doesn't say "if you fire ordinance you must fire snap shots with..." It says you can't do both.

In other words, you have to pick one. This rule is not referring to the order of the turn in any way shape or form. It simply states you can't do both. If it said "for the rest of that turn" it would be an entirely different story. but it would need the "for the rest of...." to be interpreted the way you want it to read. Sorry man.

I'm assuming that firing an ordnance weapons is powerful. Allowing full ballistic skill for other weapons on the turn it fired ordnance would make it over powered.

I'm not sure why 7ed made a rule that firing is not simo. Seems stupid to me. How ever the rule clearly states any ordnance weapon used makes all other shots snap shots for the turn. Order of fire does not matter.

Just for the argument. How many IG players would there be if this rule was upheld?

here's an interesting question:

can you snapshoot ordnance?

page 41:
"ordnance weapons cannot fire snap shots"

page 73:
"A vehicle that moves at cruising speed can still snap shoot ordnance"

buh?

p. 41 talks about Ordnance in general, p. 73 about Ordnance on vehicles.

The latter is more specific because it overrides p. 41.

p.41 e.g. says that you cannot fire any other weapons after firing Ordnance whereas p.73 says vehicles can but all other weapons only snapfire.

 some bloke wrote:
here's an interesting question:

can you snapshoot ordnance?

page 41:
"ordnance weapons cannot fire snap shots"

page 73:
"A vehicle that moves at cruising speed can still snap shoot ordnance"

buh?

This is probably referring to the non-blast ordnance missile that Valkyries can carry (that I forget the exact name of). Not a blast, but can still be a snap-shot.