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chanceafs wrote:
Again "To determine if the firing model has hit its target, roll a d6 for each shot that is in range. Most models only get to fire one shot, however, some weapons are capable of firing more than once..." BRB pg 32 ROLL TO HIT.

That is you you roll to hit. Thus, unless a weapons specifies otherwise, you roll 1D6 to see if it hits. Witchfire powers state you roll to hit. Where is your rules permission to ignore this requirement?

And how many shots does Psychic Shriek have?

Please provide a rules quote that states how many shots we get with Psychic Shriek.

Premise 1: "Just like when shooting a weapon...a witchfire power must roll To Hit..." (Psychic Phase, Witchfires)

Premise 2: "To determine if the firing model has hit its target, roll a D6 for each shot that is in range. Most models only get to fire one shot, however, some weapons are capable of firing more than once..." (Shooting Phase, Roll To Hit)

Premise 3: "Some shooting weapons fire multiple shots. Where this is the case, the number of shots a weapon fires is noted after its type." (Weapons, Number Of Shots)

Conclusion: witchfires must roll To Hit, just like when firing a weapon. While the second premise does not necessarily mean that you get one shot (i.e. dice rolled To Hit) by default, the third premise does say that in order to have multiple shots, the weapon must specifically say so. Therefore, we can prove that you cannot fire multiple shots, as you have no permission to do so.

You also cannot roll 0D6, as this does not satisfy the requirement To Hit. If you miss (or fail to roll To Hit), then you cannot satisfy the requirements of the first premise.

Therefore, you must successfully roll exactly 1D6 To Hit in order to satisfy all of these requirements and restrictions.

Thoughts? My Be'lakor model is happy to be proven wrong

 DeathReaper wrote:

chanceafs wrote:
Again "To determine if the firing model has hit its target, roll a d6 for each shot that is in range. Most models only get to fire one shot, however, some weapons are capable of firing more than once..." BRB pg 32 ROLL TO HIT.

That is you you roll to hit. Thus, unless a weapons specifies otherwise, you roll 1D6 to see if it hits. Witchfire powers state you roll to hit. Where is your rules permission to ignore this requirement?

And how many shots does Psychic Shriek have?

Please provide a rules quote that states how many shots we get with Psychic Shriek.

I just did... a To Hit Roll involves 1 shot unless specified otherwise. Does Psychic Shriek specify otherwise? No.

chanceafs wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

chanceafs wrote:
Again "To determine if the firing model has hit its target, roll a d6 for each shot that is in range. Most models only get to fire one shot, however, some weapons are capable of firing more than once..." BRB pg 32 ROLL TO HIT.

That is you you roll to hit. Thus, unless a weapons specifies otherwise, you roll 1D6 to see if it hits. Witchfire powers state you roll to hit. Where is your rules permission to ignore this requirement?

And how many shots does Psychic Shriek have?

Please provide a rules quote that states how many shots we get with Psychic Shriek.

I just did... a To Hit Roll involves 1 shot unless specified otherwise. Does Psychic Shriek specify otherwise? No.

'Most models only get to fire one shot' doesn't mean 'involves 1 shot unless specified otherwise'

They are completely different.

It is just a throw-away sentence that says most only have 1 shot which I don't even know if that is true.

 PrinceRaven wrote:

 Shandara wrote:
In absence of an actual die rolled on the table, have you Rolled To Hit? If a tree falls in a forest with no people...?

Claiming you automatically progress to the resolution of the power is something I'd like a page/reference on.

Here ya go: "Assuming the Psychic test was passed and the enemy did not negate it with a successful Deny the Witch test, the power has been successfully manifested. Resolve its effects according to the instructions in its entry."

Aren't you just stuck on the requirement to ROLL something until you and your opponent agree how to solve this flaw in the rules?

The last time it came up we just ruled it as the 3d6 replaces the to-hit and to-wound rolls and kept playing.

I did not mean that. You can not skip the To Hit Roll, even if it does not have any effect. And since there is no way to complete the To Hit roll currently .. you are stuck.

And if you ruled it one way, we can also just rule it that you roll 1 dice for your To Hit roll... which would be more like regular Witchfires with a normal weapon profile.

*makes a rolling motion with 0 dice in hand* - Oh look, I just figured out how to complete the to hit roll.

It would be more like regular witchfires, but Psychic Shriek is clearly not a regular witchfire, and we decided on the ruling closer to RAW.

RAW - Psychic Shriek as a power is broken and is impossible to resolve.

RAI - Who knows?

HIWPI - The Ld roll is more akin to a "to Wound" roll, thus I would substitute it for that step. "Most Weapons fire one shot..." would seem to indicate 1 shot is default, though it is not definitive. Therefore 1 roll to hit at firers BS and if hit, resolve full effects of power. If not, nothing.

I disagree, Psychic Shriek can definitely be resolved according to RAW, just in a pretty non-intuitive way.

Seriously don't understand why this is still in debate. The power, if manifested will resolve, but you still have to roll to hit, there is no flaw in this interpretation.

Witchfire spells are handled just like shooting attacks unless it uses a template, it's very explicit in how they are used.

Psychic Shriek does not use a template, therefore you need to roll to hit.

The 3d6 mentioned on the spell is to determine how many models are wounded in the unit, not how many are hit.

Example: I roll 3d6 and get 7 (horrible roll) targeting a unit of 10 tactical marines, you would have to assign 7 wounds, but before this roll even happens, I would have to roll to hit to see if I even hit this unit.

Psyker powers can miss people, assuming they are automatically going to hit is a little short-sighted.

Read the power again, even says the 3d6 are for wounds, not for hits, what makes you think you can replace this for a to-hit to when the rules specifically state that you must roll to hit for Witchfire powers?

I've been playing less than a month and this answer is so obvious its sad you're arguing about it

 PrinceRaven wrote:
*makes a rolling motion with 0 dice in hand* - Oh look, I just figured out how to complete the to hit roll.

It would be more like regular witchfires, but Psychic Shriek is clearly not a regular witchfire, and we decided on the ruling closer to RAW.

so still no RAW backing for your baseless, and trolling, assertations that rolling 0 dice to hit counts as rolling to hit?

You have the exact same permission to roll 0 dice to hit with a bolter.

pretty sad, especially since several posters have posted all the relevent rules,

and GW has in fact written down everything we need to know about this particular power.

Unfortunatly, you like to troll, or just dont want to play by RAW, as shreck is RAW very much a normal witch fire, and its PROFILE contains all the information we need to check range, roll to hit, and resolve wounds, just like every other shooting profile in the game does.

 easysauce wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:
*makes a rolling motion with 0 dice in hand* - Oh look, I just figured out how to complete the to hit roll.

It would be more like regular witchfires, but Psychic Shriek is clearly not a regular witchfire, and we decided on the ruling closer to RAW.

so still no RAW backing for your baseless, and trolling, assertations that rolling 0 dice to hit counts as rolling to hit?

You have the exact same permission to roll 0 dice to hit with a bolter.

pretty sad, especially since several posters have posted all the relevent rules,

and GW has in fact written down everything we need to know about this particular power.

Unfortunatly, you like to troll, or just dont want to play by RAW, as shreck is RAW very much a normal witch fire, and its PROFILE contains all the information we need to check range, roll to hit, and resolve wounds, just like every other shooting profile in the game does.

The way this was handled the other day when I played at my local gw shop, we rolled to hit just like a gun with one dice as you are targeting one "whole" unit and went from there, this didn't seem to upset anybody at the table or in the shop.

Rolling 0 dice to hit is flat out cheating, rolling more than one is pointless as one is clearly enough. Though it does help if you think of it with a little bit of logic. You're sending out a pulse of Psychic energy, not targeting an individual unit, but a group, you're either gonna hit them all or miss them all, but there are always gonna be those who try to bend the rules to their favor.

Zodiark wrote:

Rolling 0 dice to hit is flat out cheating, rolling more than one is pointless as one is clearly enough. Though it does help if you think of it with a little bit of logic. You're sending out a pulse of Psychic energy, not targeting an individual unit, but a group, you're either gonna hit them all or miss them all, but there are always gonna be those who try to bend the rules to their favor.

So you are using the logic for an area attack (lets call that area, a template), yet not the rules for it?

IMO, it's a mess. You don't have enough rules to complete it as a shooting attack (you score 1 hit for each success on the to hit roll, but that isn't how the power works).
Saying it isn't a shooting attack makes my flat out rhinos full of psykers happy.

The best solution is to FAQ it to be a Malediction.

-Matt

 HawaiiMatt wrote:

Zodiark wrote:

Rolling 0 dice to hit is flat out cheating, rolling more than one is pointless as one is clearly enough. Though it does help if you think of it with a little bit of logic. You're sending out a pulse of Psychic energy, not targeting an individual unit, but a group, you're either gonna hit them all or miss them all, but there are always gonna be those who try to bend the rules to their favor.

So you are using the logic for an area attack (lets call that area, a template), yet not the rules for it?

IMO, it's a mess. You don't have enough rules to complete it as a shooting attack (you score 1 hit for each success on the to hit roll, but that isn't how the power works).
Saying it isn't a shooting attack makes my flat out rhinos full of psykers happy.

The best solution is to FAQ it to be a Malediction.

-Matt

But it is a shooting attack, I never said it wasn't. It's a single shot shooting attack that hits an entire unit. Seriously, I don't understand how you guys are failing so hard to grasp this concept. The rules are incredibly clear and did not leave room for interpretation. Obviously this has been an issue for awhile which I find interesting because if it was a mistake in intent, don't you think it would have been FAQ'd by now? I've seen other things get FAQ'd rather quickly when it became an issue, but not this.

That alone should tell you something. RAW states it's a Shooting attack and you must roll To-Hit. If you do not, you are cheating, plain and simple.

Zodiark wrote:
Psychic Shriek does not use a template, therefore you need to roll to hit.

How many dice? We're told to look at the profile to determine that - where is Psychic Shriek's profile?

Read the power again, even says the 3d6 are for wounds, not for hits, what makes you think you can replace this for a to-hit to when the rules specifically state that you must roll to hit for Witchfire powers?

Because we're told that, per the Psychic rules, once we manifest the power we have permission to resolve the power according to its entry.
Pray, tell me where in the entry for Psychic Shriek it requires a to hit roll to be passed?

Since you may not have the 7th edition book yet I'll make it easy on you. Here's the text of the power.

Psychic Shriek is a witchfire power with a range of 18". Roll 3D6 and subtract the target’s Leadership – the target unit suffers a number of Wounds equal to the result. Armour and cover saves cannot be taken against Wounds caused by Psychic Shriek.

I've manifested it. I therefore have permission to resolve it according to its entry - correct?
According to the entry I have permission to roll 3d6 and subtract the target's Leadership. Correct?

chanceafs wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

chanceafs wrote:
Again "To determine if the firing model has hit its target, roll a d6 for each shot that is in range. Most models only get to fire one shot, however, some weapons are capable of firing more than once..." BRB pg 32 ROLL TO HIT.

That is you you roll to hit. Thus, unless a weapons specifies otherwise, you roll 1D6 to see if it hits. Witchfire powers state you roll to hit. Where is your rules permission to ignore this requirement?

And how many shots does Psychic Shriek have?

Please provide a rules quote that states how many shots we get with Psychic Shriek.

I just did... a To Hit Roll involves 1 shot unless specified otherwise. Does Psychic Shriek specify otherwise? No.

Do you have a page number that says you only roll once unless specified otherwise?

I have not seen anything posted that says you only roll once unless specified otherwise.

So RAW ends up as basically every time you use this power in a game and there is a rules dispute you have to roll off as described under "the most important rule" and play it that way for the rest of the game.

Or some common sense could be applied, roll to hit once then act accordingly.

Or both players pack up and go home.

We done here yet?

Witchfire powers "must roll To Hit." and the power doesn't say that it automatically hit so it "must roll To Hit." To Hit is determined by the shooters BS.

The real question is, how many shots. One power, one test, one shot. That's how I play it.

 easysauce wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:
*makes a rolling motion with 0 dice in hand* - Oh look, I just figured out how to complete the to hit roll.

It would be more like regular witchfires, but Psychic Shriek is clearly not a regular witchfire, and we decided on the ruling closer to RAW.

so still no RAW backing for your baseless, and trolling, assertations that rolling 0 dice to hit counts as rolling to hit?

Rolling to hit = rolling a number of dice to determine how many hits are caused, 0d6 = a number of dice.
I have quoted the relevant rules supporting my position, I'm sorry I have no control over your ability to read them.

You have the exact same permission to roll 0 dice to hit with a bolter.

You very much do not, which would be clear if you actually bothered to read my argument. Bolters are a Rapid Fire weapon, I suggest reading the Rapid Fire rules if you want to know how many dice you roll to hit with a bolter.

pretty sad, especially since several posters have posted all the relevent rules,

and GW has in fact written down everything we need to know about this particular power.

Unfortunatly, you like to troll, or just dont want to play by RAW, as shreck is RAW very much a normal witch fire, and its PROFILE contains all the information we need to check range, roll to hit, and resolve wounds, just like every other shooting profile in the game does.

So you blatantly ignore my argument, dismissing it without actually addressing my points at all, then accuse ME of trolling? I believe there's a saying that would be relevant here, something about stones and glass houses...

rigeld2 wrote:

Zodiark wrote:
Psychic Shriek does not use a template, therefore you need to roll to hit.

How many dice? We're told to look at the profile to determine that - where is Psychic Shriek's profile?

Read the power again, even says the 3d6 are for wounds, not for hits, what makes you think you can replace this for a to-hit to when the rules specifically state that you must roll to hit for Witchfire powers?

Because we're told that, per the Psychic rules, once we manifest the power we have permission to resolve the power according to its entry.
Pray, tell me where in the entry for Psychic Shriek it requires a to hit roll to be passed?

Since you may not have the 7th edition book yet I'll make it easy on you. Here's the text of the power.

Psychic Shriek is a witchfire power with a range of 18". Roll 3D6 and subtract the target’s Leadership – the target unit suffers a number of Wounds equal to the result. Armour and cover saves cannot be taken against Wounds caused by Psychic Shriek.

I've manifested it. I therefore have permission to resolve it according to its entry - correct?
According to the entry I have permission to roll 3d6 and subtract the target's Leadership. Correct?

Yeah I've decided I really don't like you, you're just a troll with a big stick poking you where it's not nice.

Anyway.

I have the 7th RB and it SPECIFICALLY states that a WITCHFIRE power counts as a SHOOTING attack and you MUST ROLL TO HIT. (I debated making these words bigger for you so you understand better)

I also have the Psyker cards that list all its info on it. When you roll 3d6 this is strictly to WOUND, not to hit.

As for how to determine a shooting attack, if you really don't know this you shouldn't be talking here.

If you READ the BRB for 6th or 7th edition, take your pick, it says the same thing, you'll find that you do indeed need to roll to hit. When rolling to hit you look at the shooters BS skill, this is so obvious it needs no further comment.

It's a one shot skill, why would you roll more than one dice? Common sense and logic crushes your entire post


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 dg3263827 wrote:
Witchfire powers "must roll To Hit." and the power doesn't say that it automatically hit so it "must roll To Hit." To Hit is determined by the shooters BS.

The real question is, how many shots. One power, one test, one shot. That's how I play it.

This exactly is how it is meant to be played. Why so many are too inept to understand I'll never know. It is a very basic concept and understanding.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

stripeydave wrote:
So RAW ends up as basically every time you use this power in a game and there is a rules dispute you have to roll off as described under "the most important rule" and play it that way for the rest of the game.

Or some common sense could be applied, roll to hit once then act accordingly.

Or both players pack up and go home.

We done here yet?

Not done here yet, they'll argue about it for months and months while those with common sense will move on and play.

 dg3263827 wrote:
Witchfire powers "must roll To Hit." and the power doesn't say that it automatically hit so it "must roll To Hit." To Hit is determined by the shooters BS.

The real question is, how many shots. One power, one test, one shot. That's how I play it.

That's how we locally have played it. Rules are explicitly clear that a 'to hit' roll must be made for a Witchfire. Psychic Shriek does not give specific guidance this rule is ignored, therefore, a 'to hit' roll is made. It could be debated how many, but it cannot be 0d6. It also states that many (witchfires) have profiles similar to ranged weapons. Note that this leaves room that there are Witchfires that do not have profiles similar to weapons and Psychic Shriek is a perfect example of this.

Refusing to make a 'to hit' roll and assuming Psychic Shriek (Witchfire) hits automatically clearly violates the rules laid forth. Debate how many d6 you should roll, but it simply cannot be 0.

Zodiark wrote:
Yeah I've decided I really don't like you, you're just a troll with a big stick poking you where it's not nice.

However unpleasant and condescending rigeld is, he does have a point.

Zodiark wrote:
This exactly is how it is meant to be played. Why so many are too inept to understand I'll never know. It is a very basic concept and understanding.

Personally I think that is true, however that is opinion.

Whatever, we end up with a power that (on the face of it) we don't know how many dice to roll to hit.
We can assume, but we are not told.
We also have a power that would seem to function (ie, wound) purely based on if it is manifested.

Add the two together = problems.

If any of us were to actually play each other, we would, in all probability, agree 1 dice to hit, miss and the power is completed, ie no wounds.

Stuff like this (in this rules discussion context) is as much as a moan about gw design as anything else.
"This is knackered, not my fault, deal with it as you will."

 fuusa wrote:

Zodiark wrote:
Yeah I've decided I really don't like you, you're just a troll with a big stick poking you where it's not nice.

However unpleasant and condescending rigeld is, he does have a point.

Zodiark wrote:
This exactly is how it is meant to be played. Why so many are too inept to understand I'll never know. It is a very basic concept and understanding.

Personally I think that is true, however that is opinion.

Whatever, we end up with a power that (on the face of it) we don't know how many dice to roll to hit.
We can assume, but we are not told.
We also have a power that would seem to function (ie, wound) purely based on if it is manifested.

Add the two together = problems.

If any of us were to actually play each other, we would, in all probability, agree 1 dice to hit, miss and the power is completed, ie no wounds.

Stuff like this (in this rules discussion context) is as much as a moan about gw design as anything else.
"This is knackered, not my fault, deal with it as you will."

His point is more a complication in reading comprehension. The rules are indeed quite clear and maybe a fault in GW's own use of wording in the text which I have seen a lot of, either way though, the wording for the power has it as a shooting attack and shooting attacks are solved a certain way, the rest is obvious.

The how many shots could be an issue but really it isn't, unless stated otherwise on a weapon or a special rule for a weapon, you get one shot. Or are we going to argue how many shots a Bolt Pistol gets now? It doesn't state on the weapons profile, but it is something we all know right?

The issue is it does state with a bolt pistol. Pistol sub-type states one shot. Psychic Shriek doesn't mention how many rolls are being made to hit. Yes, Raven is quite possibly being obtuse (not saying he is), but he does raise a valid point. My group would just agree or roll on it-it becomes an issue in pick up games.

Of course, all these problems could be solved if GW had a rules complaints department.

Farseer Anath'lan wrote:
The issue is it does state with a bolt pistol. Pistol sub-type states one shot. Psychic Shriek doesn't mention how many rolls are being made to hit. Yes, Rigeld is quite possibly being obtuse (not saying he is), but he does raise a valid point. My group would just agree or roll on it-it becomes an issue in pick up games.

Of course, all these problems could be solved if GW had a rules complaints department.

Rolling for it is another good idea, usually do this with my friends for any issue we can't agree on, but this to our play group and even my LGS is an obvious answer which is why this dispute is frustrating. I can understand if the wording was vague but it isn't, it's very explicit.

Zodiark wrote:
His point is more a complication in reading comprehension. The rules are indeed quite clear and maybe a fault in GW's own use of wording in the text which I have seen a lot of, either way though, the wording for the power has it as a shooting attack and shooting attacks are solved a certain way, the rest is obvious.

Yes shooting attacks are "solved a certain way" but there is nothing telling us how many dice we need to roll to hit in the Psychic shriek power itself.

The how many shots could be an issue but really it isn't, unless stated otherwise on a weapon or a special rule for a weapon, you get one shot.

There is no actual rules that state this though, this is purely your assumption.

Or are we going to argue how many shots a Bolt Pistol gets now? It doesn't state on the weapons profile, but it is something we all know right?

Why would we argue that, there are clear rules telling us that Bolt Pistols get one shot...

"Pistols are effectively Assault 1 weapons." (Weapons section, Pistol Weapons subsection).

and of course "A model shooting an Assault weapon shoots the number of times indicated on its profile." (Weapons section, Assault weapons sub-section).

So clearly we fire 1 time with pistols because they are Assault 1 weapons and Assault 1 weapons fire 1 shot because that is the number of times indicated on its profile.

 DeathReaper wrote:

Zodiark wrote:
His point is more a complication in reading comprehension. The rules are indeed quite clear and maybe a fault in GW's own use of wording in the text which I have seen a lot of, either way though, the wording for the power has it as a shooting attack and shooting attacks are solved a certain way, the rest is obvious.

Yes shooting attacks are "solved a certain way" but there is nothing telling us how many dice we need to roll to hit in the Psychic shriek power itself.

The how many shots could be an issue but really it isn't, unless stated otherwise on a weapon or a special rule for a weapon, you get one shot.

There is no actual rules that state this though, this is purely your assumption.

Or are we going to argue how many shots a Bolt Pistol gets now? It doesn't state on the weapons profile, but it is something we all know right?

Why would we argue that, there are clear rules telling us that Bolt Pistols get one shot...

"Pistols are effectively Assault 1 weapons." (Weapons section, Pistol Weapons subsection).

and of course "A model shooting an Assault weapon shoots the number of times indicated on its profile." (Weapons section, Assault weapons sub-section).

So clearly we fire 1 time with pistols because they are Assault 1 weapons and Assault 1 weapons fire 1 shot because that is the number of times indicated on its profile.

Yet this Power isn't obvious to you? Seriously?

Zodiark wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

Zodiark wrote:
His point is more a complication in reading comprehension. The rules are indeed quite clear and maybe a fault in GW's own use of wording in the text which I have seen a lot of, either way though, the wording for the power has it as a shooting attack and shooting attacks are solved a certain way, the rest is obvious.

Yes shooting attacks are "solved a certain way" but there is nothing telling us how many dice we need to roll to hit in the Psychic shriek power itself.

The how many shots could be an issue but really it isn't, unless stated otherwise on a weapon or a special rule for a weapon, you get one shot.

There is no actual rules that state this though, this is purely your assumption.

Or are we going to argue how many shots a Bolt Pistol gets now? It doesn't state on the weapons profile, but it is something we all know right?

Why would we argue that, there are clear rules telling us that Bolt Pistols get one shot...

"Pistols are effectively Assault 1 weapons." (Weapons section, Pistol Weapons subsection).

and of course "A model shooting an Assault weapon shoots the number of times indicated on its profile." (Weapons section, Assault weapons sub-section).

So clearly we fire 1 time with pistols because they are Assault 1 weapons and Assault 1 weapons fire 1 shot because that is the number of times indicated on its profile.

Yet this Power isn't obvious to you? Seriously?

I have not been able to find any actual rules that tell us how many dice we need to use to roll to hit with Psychic Shriek. So, no it is not obvious to me, because I do not see it in the rules anywhere.

Have you found any actual rules that tell us how many dice we need to roll to hit?

Zodiark wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
I've manifested it. I therefore have permission to resolve it according to its entry - correct?
According to the entry I have permission to roll 3d6 and subtract the target's Leadership. Correct?

Yeah I've decided I really don't like you, you're just a troll with a big stick poking you where it's not nice.

Anyway.

I have the 7th RB and it SPECIFICALLY states that a WITCHFIRE power counts as a SHOOTING attack and you MUST ROLL TO HIT. (I debated making these words bigger for you so you understand better)

Shouting doesn't help at all - it's rude.
I don't dispute that at all. Did you actually read my post?

I also have the Psyker cards that list all its info on it. When you roll 3d6 this is strictly to WOUND, not to hit.

No, the 3d6 roll is not a to-wound roll. Not even close actually.

As for how to determine a shooting attack, if you really don't know this you shouldn't be talking here.

I do know how to determine the number of shots in a shooting attack - you look at the weapon's profile.
Please cite Psychic Shriek's profile.

If you READ the BRB for 6th or 7th edition, take your pick, it says the same thing, you'll find that you do indeed need to roll to hit. When rolling to hit you look at the shooters BS skill, this is so obvious it needs no further comment.

I don't dispute that and never have. It's also an irrelevant statement.

It's a one shot skill, why would you roll more than one dice? Common sense and logic crushes your entire post

You assumptions and HYWPI != RAW. I'm sure you can recognize that.

Zodiark wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

Zodiark wrote:
His point is more a complication in reading comprehension. The rules are indeed quite clear and maybe a fault in GW's own use of wording in the text which I have seen a lot of, either way though, the wording for the power has it as a shooting attack and shooting attacks are solved a certain way, the rest is obvious.

Yes shooting attacks are "solved a certain way" but there is nothing telling us how many dice we need to roll to hit in the Psychic shriek power itself.

The how many shots could be an issue but really it isn't, unless stated otherwise on a weapon or a special rule for a weapon, you get one shot.

There is no actual rules that state this though, this is purely your assumption.

Or are we going to argue how many shots a Bolt Pistol gets now? It doesn't state on the weapons profile, but it is something we all know right?

Why would we argue that, there are clear rules telling us that Bolt Pistols get one shot...

"Pistols are effectively Assault 1 weapons." (Weapons section, Pistol Weapons subsection).

and of course "A model shooting an Assault weapon shoots the number of times indicated on its profile." (Weapons section, Assault weapons sub-section).

So clearly we fire 1 time with pistols because they are Assault 1 weapons and Assault 1 weapons fire 1 shot because that is the number of times indicated on its profile.

Yet this Power isn't obvious to you? Seriously?

If it is so obvious, page and para for the profile of the power, as per the tenets of this forum.

 DeathReaper wrote:

Zodiark wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

Zodiark wrote:
His point is more a complication in reading comprehension. The rules are indeed quite clear and maybe a fault in GW's own use of wording in the text which I have seen a lot of, either way though, the wording for the power has it as a shooting attack and shooting attacks are solved a certain way, the rest is obvious.

Yes shooting attacks are "solved a certain way" but there is nothing telling us how many dice we need to roll to hit in the Psychic shriek power itself.

The how many shots could be an issue but really it isn't, unless stated otherwise on a weapon or a special rule for a weapon, you get one shot.

There is no actual rules that state this though, this is purely your assumption.

Or are we going to argue how many shots a Bolt Pistol gets now? It doesn't state on the weapons profile, but it is something we all know right?

Why would we argue that, there are clear rules telling us that Bolt Pistols get one shot...

"Pistols are effectively Assault 1 weapons." (Weapons section, Pistol Weapons subsection).

and of course "A model shooting an Assault weapon shoots the number of times indicated on its profile." (Weapons section, Assault weapons sub-section).

So clearly we fire 1 time with pistols because they are Assault 1 weapons and Assault 1 weapons fire 1 shot because that is the number of times indicated on its profile.

Yet this Power isn't obvious to you? Seriously?

I have not been able to find any actual rules that tell us how many dice we need to use to roll to hit with Psychic Shriek. So, no it is not obvious to me, because I do not see it in the rules anywhere.

Have you found any actual rules that tell us how many dice we need to roll to hit?

No specific rule no, but common sense is in the name of the ability and the logic behind it. Psychic Shriek, singular, not plural, one shot deal. This is how it is interpreted everywhere I play, this could be different at other places I'll give you that. Idk, for me this is just obvious, unless it states otherwise, the power rolls to hit, unless it states otherwise, you get one shot, unless it states otherwise you roll one dice. The RB does a great job at being specific when it needs to be and vague when the answer is very obvious. Sure a specific ruling would fix this, but this is an issue that has been around awhile and GW is more than aware of it, yet no FAQ has been made on it. They even have the most recent FAQ for Psyker powers and there is no mention of it, why, because the answer is more than obvious. It's a single attack, so you get a single dice.

This may play out differently depending on where you play and who you play with, but even as a new player this to me was easily understood and needed no interpretation. I suggest you ask a GW employee and maybe a judge for a tournament if you can get ahold of one to confirm this is how it is, if you like, I'll give you the number to both of the GW stores near me as well as the other LGS I p[lay at where this is how we play and they can re-explain why this is how the power works.

But this seems to me an issue people will argue about for a long time. Just googling it I found one thread from last year and another from 2012 with people fighting about it back then and one of the players said it perfectly.

"Roll to hit with Witchfire (BS of psyker).
Roll to wound with 3d6 - leadership.
Apply wounds." (Rogueeyes, 2012)

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/461761.page

The lack of any specific ruling about more than one shot/dice being needed answers the question immediately. Every Shooting weapon has a number of shots and it tells you how much they can shoot, GW went through the trouble to do this so everyone would know. Maybe they should have wrote this down for Psychic Shriek so people would stop arguing about it, but I tend to think that the ruling was specific and obvious so they felt they did not need to do this.


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No, the 3d6 roll is not a to-wound roll. Not even close actually.

Really, so you're not rolling 3d6 against the units LD in order to determine how many wounds the target suffers?