Like Fallujah before it....

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**Jihadin**

Majority of the incident though are alcohol related. Most time the locals won;t raise a fuss when they submit damage estimates which they take out of "Joe" paycheck for max two months. Homicide the military quick as Hell turn them over to the locals once verified the service member committed it.. Deaths by accident, example being the two South Korean kids that was run over by a track recovery vehicle I believe is UCMJ

Granted none of us here are subject matter experts on SOFA "Agreement" (

) all we can do is give examples and somewhat explanations on how it works.

**djones520**

There are other cases though where the SOFA will save our ass. A few years back in Kyrgyzstan a Security Forces officer shot a Kyrgy truck driver and killed him, after the man pulled a knife on him. The Kyrgyz government demanded we turned the Security Forces member over to face their justice system, completely contradicting the SOFA. Lucky for our guy, we did no such thing, and got him the hell out of country.

**Jihadin**

I can see this thread turning into two camps. Those of us familiar with SOFA. Those who are not familiar with it.

**Pacific**

Wondering if this will end with a split/balkanization of the country?

The loss of life, destruction of the glue that holds civilisation together.. the whole thing is just so sad.

**Jihadin**

Going to go tribe vs tribe. Then it becomes a UN issue

**Ensis Ferrae**

Jihadin wrote:
Going to go tribe vs tribe. Then it becomes a UN issue

My money would be on the Kurds and Yazidi to come out, if not on top... at least with their own chunk of soil

**Bullockist**

My money would be on the country turning into gak hole .
What country in it's right mind would want to support a SOFA agreement (for you ouze) . I sure as hell wouldn't want one (though knowing my country -the pissant little US bottom licker it probably has one. *sigh* New Zealand , now there is a country I admire). So lets get this straight, a country invades another , occupies , stays there for a while , gets some rescources/concessions , and then wonders why the invaded country doesn't want them there any more. Blame the victim Dakka style but on the world stage.

*edit curiously the bad word catcher isn't working

**Ouze**

I think I might have Streisand affected that phrase, there.

Jihadin wrote:
I be highly critical if Obama loses his frame of mind and send US "Boots" to Iraq if they ask for help stabilize the country.

I'm not sure how he legally can for longer than 60 days, right - even if he were so inclined, which I suspect he would not be. Is the AUMF/Iraq still in place?

**PrehistoricUFO**

As a Canadian, and also as an individual who isn't particularly bright, I've never actually understood much about the specifics/logistics or the politics of the war (a lot of it started when I was a kid and I never took interest in it), but I have paid a bit more attention in recent years in University.

The re-taking of major cities by insurgents that were hard-won by Americans and supporting allies is pretty upsetting. I can understand the emotions Americans are feeling, considering the toll the war has had on its economy, the families, the whole of the country. Just terrible.

**44Ronin**

PrehistoricUFO wrote:
I can understand the emotions Americans are feeling, considering the toll the war has had on its economy, the families, the whole of the country. Just terrible.

Which is nothing in comparison to the gak that it did to the Iraq people.

**PrehistoricUFO**

Them too, yes. Their whole existence is filled with strife, it must be maddening to live there.

**Hordini**

AlexHolker wrote:
You are being predictably deceptive, Jihadin. The reason Iraq wanted America out is not because they are "infidels", but because America wanted them to be above the law.

The U.S. said repeatedly this year it would entertain an offer from the Iraqis to have a small force stay behind, and the Iraqis said they would like American military help. But as the year wore on and the number of American troops that Washington was suggesting could stay behind dropped, it became increasingly clear that a U.S. troop presence was not a sure thing.

The issue of legal protection for the Americans was the deal-breaker.

Iraqis are still angry over incidents such as the Abu Ghraib prison scandal or Haditha, when U.S. troops killed Iraqi civilians in Anbar province, and want American troops subject to Iraqi law.

American commanders don't want to risk having their forces end up in an Iraqi courtroom if they're forced to defend themselves in a still-hostile environment.

They didn't want them to be above the law. They just wanted them to be held accountable by the UCMJ and not by Iraqi law.

**Bullockist**

Is that not being above the law? I'd consider that to be the exact definition of being above the law, especially considering we are talking about Iraq and not US soil.

**Jihadin**

There were a few trials that some in the region think a more severe sentence could have been given. A few that wanted the death sentence given. Under their law yes it can happen. Under UCMJ its a different outcome.

Lets put this in better perspective. Who here who is not familiar with the Military, combat operation, situational awareness of the given area, and threat level can judge my actions? No one in the civilian world. Only ones that can judge me is those who are military. Being they are familiar with my situation being they themselves were in the same situation I was.

**Hordini**

Bullockist wrote:
Is that not being above the law? I'd consider that to be the exact definition of being above the law, especially considering we are talking about Iraq and not US soil.

No, because they are still being held accountable under the law. We just wanted to have the ability to take care of our own dirty laundry, so to speak.

**sebster**

Bullockist wrote:
My money would be on the country turning into gak hole .
What country in it's right mind would want to support a SOFA agreement (for you ouze) . I sure as hell wouldn't want one (though knowing my country -the pissant little US bottom licker it probably has one.

There is one in place, yeah. But then, Australia has SOFA arrangements with Papua New Guinea, Malaysia and East Timor. Everyone pisses on the next guy down.

**Ensis Ferrae**

Bullockist wrote:

What country in it's right mind would want to support a SOFA agreement (for you ouze) . I sure as hell wouldn't want one (though knowing my country -the pissant little US bottom licker it probably has one.

You may be surprised to know that you do have one with the US, because there is a US military base in Australia. I believe its out in Adelaide?? (it's kinda in the NW "corner" and from what I've been made to understand its up in kinda the worst part of Straya, out with the big prisons and whatnot)

**djones520**

Ensis Ferrae wrote:
Bullockist wrote:

What country in it's right mind would want to support a SOFA agreement (for you ouze) . I sure as hell wouldn't want one (though knowing my country -the pissant little US bottom licker it probably has one.

You may be surprised to know that you do have one with the US, because there is a US military base in Australia. I believe its out in Adelaide?? (it's kinda in the NW "corner" and from what I've been made to understand its up in kinda the worst part of Straya, out with the big prisons and whatnot)

We have a USAF Solar Observatory in the NW. There is also a base being built in N. Aussieland for C-17's and Marines as I understand it. But yes, we have a SOFA with Australia. Overall we have one with 58 nations.

Man... I love the feelings of love and joy our coming from Bullockists posts. Brightens my heart.

Here is the SOFA we have with Australia btw, if anyone wanted to read through it, and what they can entail.

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/other/dfat/treaties/1963/10.html

**Ensis Ferrae**

djones520 wrote:
Ensis Ferrae wrote:
Bullockist wrote:

What country in it's right mind would want to support a SOFA agreement (for you ouze) . I sure as hell wouldn't want one (though knowing my country -the pissant little US bottom licker it probably has one.

You may be surprised to know that you do have one with the US, because there is a US military base in Australia. I believe its out in Adelaide?? (it's kinda in the NW "corner" and from what I've been made to understand its up in kinda the worst part of Straya, out with the big prisons and whatnot)

We have a USAF Solar Observatory in the NW. There is also a base being built in N. Aussieland for C-17's and Marines as I understand it. But yes, we have a SOFA with Australia. Overall we have one with 58 nations.

Man... I love the feelings of love and joy our coming from Bullockists posts. Brightens my heart.

There's an army one as well though, I think it's primarily a (very) tiny maintenance depot/facility. My guess is it's a pan-asian repair echelon for severely damaged vehicles that for whatever reason, can't be fixed in theater, but are still able to get transport

**44Ronin**

Jihadin wrote:
Lets put this in better perspective. Who here who is not familiar with the Military, combat operation, situational awareness of the given area, and threat level can judge my actions? No one in the civilian world. Only ones that can judge me is those who are military. Being they are familiar with my situation being they themselves were in the same situation I was.

So you can only be judged by your peer group.... yeah there's this river in egypt...

**Jihadin**

So you can only be judged by your peer group.... yeah there's this river in egypt...

Did a Red Star Exercise there

Also a stint in the Sinai to

The river in case you forgot in Egypt is the Nile

**Bullockist**

djones520 wrote:
Ensis Ferrae wrote:
Bullockist wrote:

What country in it's right mind would want to support a SOFA agreement (for you ouze) . I sure as hell wouldn't want one (though knowing my country -the pissant little US bottom licker it probably has one.

You may be surprised to know that you do have one with the US, because there is a US military base in Australia. I believe its out in Adelaide?? (it's kinda in the NW "corner" and from what I've been made to understand its up in kinda the worst part of Straya, out with the big prisons and whatnot)

We have a USAF Solar Observatory in the NW. There is also a base being built in N. Aussieland for C-17's and Marines as I understand it. But yes, we have a SOFA with Australia. Overall we have one with 58 nations.

Man... I love the feelings of love and joy our coming from Bullockists posts. Brightens my heart.

Here is the SOFA we have with Australia btw, if anyone wanted to read through it, and what they can entail.

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/other/dfat/treaties/1963/10.html

I must have woken up on the wrong side of the forums.
My post did mean to read "(though knowing my country -the pissant little US bottom licker it is probably has one." missed out one word.

I knew we had bases here, I cannot tell you how thrilled I am about the new one

. The NW, I assume would be somewhere near Broome and Darwin. Big area, but it would have to be near one of those cities (towns?)

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Jihadin wrote:
So you can only be judged by your peer group.... yeah there's this river in egypt...

Did a Red Star Exercise there
Also a stint in the Sinai to

The river in case you forgot in Egypt is the Nile

You went to a football game in Belgrade? I didn't know being in the armed forces got people free passes to sporting events.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Star_Belgrade

**Jihadin**

Deep water port with capability for heavy ship repair, rail head, and slope berths be a few of the criteria

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Closest I came to Belgrade would be Bosnia and Kosovo

I want to visit Bucharest, Romania big time. Just from my time spent with the Romanian troops at Kandahar.

**Ensis Ferrae**

Bullockist wrote:

I knew we had bases here, I cannot tell you how thrilled I am about the new one . The NW, I assume would be somewhere near Broome and Darwin. Big area, but it would have to be near one of those cities (towns?)

I want to say it was near Adelaide, but could be wrong... From a buddy who was stationed there, he said it was in a region that has heavy aboriginal violence (as in, the aborigines commit more crimes against non-aborigines as well as have them commited against them more heavily in the region than elsewhere in Australia).. but that it was also near one of the larger heavier security prisons in the country, where... unsurprisingly, a lot of aboriginal criminals go

**Jihadin**

Its Australia Ensis. Criminals and anything that's a bug can kill you, that slithers around can kill you, fire axe wielding teenager can attack park cars, Quigley still running around in the Outback still freaking lost, river boats, and man eating croc's. I want to petition the US Government to send Justin Bieber on a Good Will tour in the Outback

**d-usa**

Hordini wrote:
Bullockist wrote:
Is that not being above the law? I'd consider that to be the exact definition of being above the law, especially considering we are talking about Iraq and not US soil.

No, because they are still being held accountable under the law. We just wanted to have the ability to take care of our own dirty laundry, so to speak.

I think some of their issues might have been from stuff like Blackwater security. But that's just a guess on my part.

**Jihadin**

Iraq prosecuted those Iraqi's hired by Blackwater that was involve in the shoot out at an intersection. Blackwater IIRC flew their people out at the BIAP. One of the reasons why Blackwater was "Blackballed" from Iraq and Afghanistan. Which in turn their contracts within the Middle East was not renewed renewed by the military. Triple Canopy, Four Horsemen, and some other Security contractors were picked up in placed of Blackwater.

Academi is the new name for Blackwater

**Pacific**

One of the saddest things for me about Iraq (aside from loss of life, destruction of lives etc.) was how the museums in Baghdad, which had some of the finest collections of Mesopotamian/Babylonian antiquities in the world, got utterly trashed during the invasion/war.

Seeing that camera footage of a guy in denim hotpants dragging some 4000-year old Babylonian sculpture through the street was painful to watch, although I suppose pales in comparison to the level of human suffering involved.

**Jihadin**

See the bank robbers in Baghdad?

The one where the M1 tank runs over the getaway car?

**Mr. Burning**

Just watching the BBC news. First time I have ever seen a 'rebel' toting an m-16/m-4 rather than an AK.