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Faction debate aside, you can easily use Skaven models by just giving them las/autoguns /pistols and using them as nice chaos cultists (mutants). They even have their own flamer ang Heavy stubber models!
Rat ogres as chaos spawns.
Hellpit abomination as Imperial armour Giant chaos spawn/spined beast.

 Ratliker wrote:
Faction debate aside, you can easily use Skaven models by just giving them las/autoguns /pistols and using them as nice chaos cultists (mutants). They even have their own flamer ang Heavy stubber models!
Rat ogres as chaos spawns.
Hellpit abomination as Imperial armour Giant chaos spawn/spined beast.

Since your name is Ratliker, I suppose you like skaven? Haha

Maximus Bitch wrote:The skaven could have space travel too.

Sure. The question is how without falling into any of the pitfalls already mentioned.

 Ailaros wrote:

Maximus Bitch wrote:The skaven could have space travel too.

Sure. The question is how without falling into any of the pitfalls already mentioned.

Okay...

In Fantasy, I believe what made the Skaven a threat was that they were basically everywhere, just somewhere where few of the overworld population would go, underground.

Couldn't it work like that? Let's say, taking the idea that space travel is quite dangerous for them, but every once in a while, they do manage it through slipshod machinery. (how they travel though, I have no idea) When they do, they go underground where they build their communities under the planet's surface by rapidly breeding. This allows them to have the same threat level now that they are hidden deep underground in several of the IoM's planets.

There are these are only just ideas of course.

 SkavenLord wrote:
In Fantasy, I believe what made the Skaven a threat was that they were basically everywhere, just somewhere where few of the overworld population would go, underground.

Couldn't it work like that? Let's say, taking the idea that space travel is quite dangerous for them, but every once in a while, they do manage it through slipshod machinery. (how they travel though, I have no idea) When they do, they go underground where they build their communities under the planet's surface by rapidly breeding. This allows them to have the same threat level now that they are hidden deep underground in several of the IoM's planets.

There are these are only just ideas of course.

To travel to another planet and not be detected by orbital defences/PDF/any alien with half a brain cell that can see a big, rag-tag ship landing on their planet? And, how exactly do they get under the planet's surface? Giant drills? Because this is turning into quite the operation just to go and live underneath a planet for apparently no reason. What's their objective? Why are they there? How have they gone unchecked for so long despite apparently 'rapidly breeding' and building interstellar ships and flying them? All that would happen is:

>PDF sees a Skaven
>Informs PDF Commander
>PDF Commander sends 1000 men down into the holes with flamers
>Game over

Not trying to be blunt/argumentative but there's no good way to shoehorn Skaven into 40k.

I think the Skaven could make a jump into the far future. They'd have no doubt eventually evolved back to being human. Wear suits and ties and get into politics. Would make great fun to have an army like that to just slaughter relentlessly.

 BrotherOfBone wrote:

 SkavenLord wrote:
In Fantasy, I believe what made the Skaven a threat was that they were basically everywhere, just somewhere where few of the overworld population would go, underground.

Couldn't it work like that? Let's say, taking the idea that space travel is quite dangerous for them, but every once in a while, they do manage it through slipshod machinery. (how they travel though, I have no idea) When they do, they go underground where they build their communities under the planet's surface by rapidly breeding. This allows them to have the same threat level now that they are hidden deep underground in several of the IoM's planets.

There are these are only just ideas of course.

To travel to another planet and not be detected by orbital defences/PDF/any alien with half a brain cell that can see a big, rag-tag ship landing on their planet? And, how exactly do they get under the planet's surface? Giant drills? Because this is turning into quite the operation just to go and live underneath a planet for apparently no reason. What's their objective? Why are they there? How have they gone unchecked for so long despite apparently 'rapidly breeding' and building interstellar ships and flying them? All that would happen is:

>PDF sees a Skaven
>Informs PDF Commander
>PDF Commander sends 1000 men down into the holes with flamers
>Game over

Not trying to be blunt/argumentative but there's no good way to shoehorn Skaven into 40k.

Not like that pal. Skaven aren't bad at warp travel since they are children of chaos.

Not every planet is suitable for human habitation; inhabited worlds usually lie far from each other. A habited world will likely be surrounded by many dead/death worlds.

The skaven covertly land on these deserted worlds and establish underground bases (they are experts at underground living). Thus the skaven strongholds are hidden from the imperium.

Now this becomes a great danger for the imperium. Over several months, the forces of chaos can slowly accumulate and gather en masse in the skaven underground hideouts. Then without warning, they can launch an all out attack from the imperium.

The seemingly deserted worlds function as hqs where the skaven compile and consolidate intelligence gathered by their spies on the nearby civilized world. It is incredibly easy, reliable and fast to send info from the civilized world to the skaven world via vox.

So....A mix of Eldar, Dark Eldar pirates, and Necron? I'm just not seeing anything original in those plot lines.

 troa wrote:
So....A mix of Eldar, Dark Eldar pirates, and Necron? I'm just not seeing anything original in those plot lines.

Thanks for the feedback guys. I'm slowly fleshing out the skaven into 40k.

Skaven and dark elves are both described as being pretty evil, and both field good assassins.

Although the skaven have the "be everywhere" vibe, the dark elves also manage to pillage ulthuan regularly.

I'm trying to make them distinct.

So The dark eldar like to raid and run while the skaven like to hide, biding their time. The skaven would definitely encounter some necrons, but I haven't thought about how they will deal with one another. In whfb the dwarves also live underground and engage in skirmishes with the skaven.

The necrons aren't hiders like the skaven, they're simply arising from their slumber to reclaim the galaxy. Necrons used to cowardly phase out but apparently they now use the webway to travel, not their phase tech.

The dark eldar are cruel and sadistic, but physically adept. Although clan eshin is pretty strong, I'm thinking of having the skaven lack much in the physical department. So they're like nerdy space rats, plotting for the destruction of he IoM. Kind of tzeentchian. Nurglesque skaven spread plagues a la clan pestilens. The eldar lean towards slaanesh and the orks towards khorne.

The skaven hideouts/strongholds can be used by the forces of chaos as resupply zones. If a large chaos fleet jumps out of the warp it is likely to alert the nearby civilized world. However, with a stronghold a large chaos fleet can assemble and strike without warning. If a large fleet jumps together some may get lost in the warp. But if the fleet assembles slowly it will ensure that all are present for an assault on the IoM.





Automatically Appended Next Post:
The skaven are intelligence gatherers. Their ground operatives consist of chaos cultists and alpha legionnaires.

The ground operatives will use vox methods to send info. There needs to be a receiver. The ones receiving will also need some abode.

You could send a receiving satellite into orbit around the world in question, but this invariably draw the attention of the imperium.

It's much better to hide in plain sight on a planet the imperium is familiar with, one that it considers dead and deserted.

A skaven stronghold acts as a receiving station and hq, while at the same time providing a place for the operatives to stay.

Alpha Legionnaires? IIRC AL don't work with aliens.

Not exactly advocating the idea (there are a lot of unexplored xenos that don't get expounded upon already in the fluff), I can't help but think of them using some kind of slip-shod Stargate technology. It'd have a green and purple-ish whirlpool looking effect instead of the calm blue water look of the actual thing.

zeromaeus wrote:
Not exactly advocating the idea (there are a lot of unexplored xenos that don't get expounded upon already in the fluff), I can't help but think of them using some kind of slip-shod Stargate technology. It'd have a green and purple-ish whirlpool looking effect instead of the calm blue water look of the actual thing.

What are your favourite minor xenos? Because I feel that most of them lack character and are difficult to expand.

My personal favorite xeno are the Rak'gol, but its not like theres a lack of others out there. I admit I have reservations partially because I have a hard time getting past rat people using the level of tech they would need in the setting.

 Ailaros wrote:

Maximus Bitch wrote:The skaven could have space travel too.

Sure. The question is how without falling into any of the pitfalls already mentioned.

make them spread almost like Genestealers, a small brood sneaks aboard a ship and then is transported to the next Hive World, Forge World at which point they will start spreading through the under hive.

Necromunda had a Faction that worshipped giant rats. make them work almost completely from the shadows. they make agreements with Chaos to assist during invasions. they eat there dead so there are never bodies recorded and any guardsmen that claims "Giant Man rats were killing our squads." will probably be killed for Chaos Taint.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Maximus Bitch wrote:

zeromaeus wrote:
Not exactly advocating the idea (there are a lot of unexplored xenos that don't get expounded upon already in the fluff), I can't help but think of them using some kind of slip-shod Stargate technology. It'd have a green and purple-ish whirlpool looking effect instead of the calm blue water look of the actual thing.

What are your favourite minor xenos? Because I feel that most of them lack character and are difficult to expand.

Kroot and Zoats are my favorite minor factions. and I can't wait until a stand alone Kroot army can be fielded again.

zeromaeus wrote:
My personal favorite xeno are the Rak'gol, but its not like theres a lack of others out there. I admit I have reservations partially because I have a hard time getting past rat people using the level of tech they would need in the setting.

What's wrong with scheming technologically advanced space rats? We have orks and their ramshackle tech.

I just feel its a weaker concept than original xenos. I wouldn't mind them so much as I think there are better concepts to expound upon. I actually love ratfolk factions. If I played Fantasy Battle, I would almost certainly have a Skaven army.

Couldn't the Skaven work like Genestealer cults.

A small group descend to a planet. They proceed to go underground. Being rats they reproduce quickly start scavenging and stealing thing to make their weapons. Till after say 5 years they bust out from underground to claim the city.


Y'all can't tell me these guys would not fit in or be kewl in a 40k setting http://gallery.mailchimp.com/e62f0c35454fa3ba687404d69/files/Veer_myn_Dossier.pdf

The thought of 40K Skaven hasn't left my mind. Adding a new faction is a difficult endeavour, so I've rephrased the question of the Skaven being only a fluff faction.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/723653.page

One of the two ways I can see skaven coming to 40k is if you take the concept of the skaven:
-Innumerable hordes of expendables
-Friendly fire is A-OK!
-Weird, but dangerously unstable tech
-Clans/Infighting

They could be from the fringe of the galaxy/ghoul stars. Endless hordes of cheap, vat grown mooks with battlefield vehicles that scoop up soil and pump out troops. Sure it sounds Tyranid-ish with "Muh Biomass Consumption" but maybe on-site vats pump out mooks tailored for the conflict?

OR, the other way I can see is:

An alien race took over a human world during the Old Night or what-have-you and are in possession of a full, intact STC. It gives them leave to have things the Imperium doesn't have (cuz STC fragments) and so on. Maybe they've improved on the Iron Man concept and made giant cyber-rat ogres?

I think people are getting too hung up over the "Underground Empire" business :/

 SpinCycleDreadnought wrote:
One of the two ways I can see skaven coming to 40k is if you take the concept of the skaven:
-Innumerable hordes of expendables
-Friendly fire is A-OK!
-Weird, but dangerously unstable tech
-Clans/Infighting

The problem with that list is that it also describes Orks. 40k orks definitely chomp on Skaven's flavor in ways that fantasy Orcs never did.

I think people are getting too hung up over the "Underground Empire" business :/

Well, it is one of their design elements that makes them interesting - the idea of ever present rats that are watching and plotting. It's just hard to port that idea to a sci fi galaxy in a way that's satisfying.

My personal favorite idea of how to import the Underempire idea is to rip off the idea of Star Trek's mirror universe. An even darker reflection of the Imperium run by Skaven, existing in a parallel dimension. They've figured out how to cross through to other dimensions, both for conquest and to escape the all-consuming hunger of their living God Emperor, the Horned Rat. That would allow them to retain their shadowy coming-and-goings on a galactic scale without having to figure out what ships they use to get places, or how they hide on planets that aren't suited to burrowing - they just dimension shift between the universes. It would also help with the classic concept that no one believes they're real.

Edit: You know, as I wrote this it dawned on me that that's just ripping off how Dark Eldar work.

Obviously the easiest way, though, is to treat them as Genestealer cultists. Just another minor xenos faction chipping away at some corner of the Imperium.

theocracity wrote:

I think people are getting too hung up over the "Underground Empire" business :/

Well, it is one of their design elements that makes them interesting - the idea of ever present rats that are watching and plotting. It's just hard to port that idea to a sci fi galaxy in a way that's satisfying.

My personal favorite idea of how to import the Underempire idea is to rip off the idea of Star Trek's mirror universe.

Edit: You know, as I wrote this it dawned on me that that's just ripping off how Dark Eldar work.

Obviously the easiest way, though, is to treat them as Genestealer cultists. Just another minor xenos faction chipping away at some corner of the Imperium.

Dark Eldar just want sex slaves though

Rather than have them hiding on Imperial worlds like those damn Nids, or flying through the webway, I came up with the idea of them hiding on ostensibly dead worlds.

Worlds which don't even look like anyone has ever set foot on them. Just dirt plains and nothing else.

But then, the Skaven hide inside these worlds, and build complex underground habitats like Dwarves or Hobbits.


So its unlike the Necron Tombworlds, because Necrons awaken and they kill all the fething squatters on top. Skaven hide inside Dead Worlds which everyone overlooks.

Maximus Bitch wrote:
Dark Eldar just want sex slaves though

Citation needed.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

Maximus Bitch wrote:
Dark Eldar just want sex slaves though

Citation needed.

In Nightbringer a female DE has sex with a male human subject.

Maximus Bitch wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

Maximus Bitch wrote:
Dark Eldar just want sex slaves though

Citation needed.

In Nightbringer a female DE has sex with a male human subject.

Yes, but I don't think that's the entire goal of the Dark Eldar race.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

Maximus Bitch wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

Maximus Bitch wrote:
Dark Eldar just want sex slaves though

Citation needed.

In Nightbringer a female DE has sex with a male human subject.

Yes, but I don't think that's the entire goal of the Dark Eldar race.

It was a joke.
Anyway, you feel free to comment on my other Skaven thread in the link.