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 Dark Severance wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:
Just looking at how uniforms are going and what the come from really doesnt put infinity minis as realistic near future to me. Simply as I stated above. Proportions are nuts, so much impracticality, too many uniforms etc etc. I mean, some have plate armour and daggers in a unit of Snipers. Their magazines are chunky as hell and so on. Far from practical. I have never seen guns that are so wide before. Its all out of whack from reality. If the OP is after that, fine, but the images of the infantry he was thinking of, do not match those anime style models.

As I said, quality is good. But far from anything normal and realistic. I thought the OP meant something believable as future soldiers, not something that simply looks good and is set in the future.

I have to disagree. There are some factions in Infinity that definitely have an anime feel (TAG and aliens). However a large portion of them do not, the large majority of them are right on the money. It also depends on what type of modern future you are talking about as it can go multiple directions.

I'm not entirely sure how too many uniforms and some plate armor pieces unvalidates it. Have you looked at current modern combat suits and armor in development currently? That is absolutely the direction you are going. Why wouldn't a sniper have a dagger, because snipers have never had to get in close to get a proper position for a sniper shot. I mean I don't know any snipers who haven't are almost as deadly in close combat... wait a minute I do. As for magazines and guns being too big, do you think they would get smaller? Magazines could be designed to have multiple types of ammo, in one magazine making it easier to switch between ammo types depending on the situation. Not to mention modular guns would tend to be a bit bigger to allow easier use to swap configurations or components out with for easier repair and refit. Sure taking apart a M16 down to base components in 60 seconds, then reassembling a new pin is possible but inefficient for moving warfare. It also means he can pick dead Joe bobs gone to get the proper component he needs, instead of dismantling it. Weapons are moving to multiple roles and modular style which is making them bulk up currently. Just compare current sub machine guns vs older versions. Just because its future doesn't mean things get smaller. They get smaller to a degree and then it bulks back up as we apply new applications to the device.

Edit: Just noticed my post comes off really snarky. I'm not meaning too so I apologize. It just doesn't translate well forum/textwise vs actually talking in person.

Dont worry, I read text like an emotionless banker is talking

I disagree. Can you imagine having to remember all those different uniform styles simply to avoid gunning down your own team?

Plate armour dude. Plate. I have not seen plate armour on modern soldiers.

Multiple ammo is a possibility, but it isnt practical,. Remember the logistics involved. Japan messed up in WW2 because their later weapons had too many ammo types and it became a nightmare to get the right bullets and produce them all etc.

Yes, having a dagger is good, but a dedicated dagger man? In plate mail... I disagree. Thats not practical.

But complicated isnt good. There is a reason some guns are incredibly popular. Their simplicity makes them deadly efficient in the hands of untrained and trained soldiers. If the guns all of a sudden had multiple ammo types, huge amounts parts (not a good thing), the more bits the more that can and will go wrong. I think the way you think its going wont be the future. Things are always complicated before a conventional conflict, then afterwards all the horrible ideas get filtered out (like over complicated or impractical ideas) for simplified and efficient weapons.

I am very certain, in the next conventional conflict, you will not see these cool crazy techs that have been thought up of today. So much of it will be tossed out within the opening conflict and it will regress back to the simple, reliable and easy method.

The infinity models are made to look nice, that is all. Hence why they have plate armour on one random guy with a dagger in a sniper squad or crazy hair on ladies who for some reason make up a large amount of the leaders in infinity armies, or a a mounted gun being shoulder fired by some chunky German looking guy etc.

Infinity reminds me of that huge t-35 (one of the land battleships which where to be the future before WW2). Worked on paper, looked cool, captured imagination. But was too complicated and impractical. Except it was (unlike infinity) not made solely for looks and was properly designed before hand.

There is too much sci fi involved in infinity models to be near future.

 Swastakowey wrote:
Dont worry, I read text like an emotionless banker is talking

LOL! I like you, that is pretty much how I read things. Was editing the old post and it ended up making a new post. Second time that has happened but guess I'll use it to reply anyways. ^_^

In combat zone you only have to memorize your own uniforms. Everyone else is either carrying a weapon is a threat and anyone not in uniform or carrying a weapon is a non-combatant. Even in a large operation it isn't too difficult. Not to mention if you are in a hostile environment most likely you won't even be using a uniform or it will be an uniform of whatever unit you want to represent (not necessarily your own). Just depends on the operation that is happening. You can also easily use a HUD to google glasses or some aspect that has built in threat indicator to make the decision faster than a human can. It would identify threats and non-threats fairly fast. Some drones already do this to allow pilots to tag threats and prioritize targets faster while they are being remoted. If the only thing stopping someone from gunning down their own team is a uniform, then they are a poor solider.

Plate armor has different applications. You are looking at miniatures that are painted to represent a metalic armor. It doesn't have to actually be plate, as in Knights in shining armor. It can be a designed to mask heat signature, electric signature or house electronics beneath it (connected maybe to your google glasses that are you using as your threat assessment). It is all about how you spin it and your imagination. You also don't see plates as they tend to be hidden beneath cloth of a vest or armor but plates are used. A spoon to some people is a spoon and to others it is a deadly weapon.

Small Arms Protective Inserts (SAPI) plates for a vest, 7.62mm apm2 protection:


There is at time for technology and sometimes it ends up ahead of it time. When it comes to weapon development there are many weapons 50 years ago would of been ruled out because they would of been too complex or they couldn't figure out how to properly apply it. Not to mention warfare at the time didn't support it. Now some of those weapons are being sought out as innovative. You also don't need too many ammo types, at most for most situations you need two, maybe three. You need a regular round for infantry and a high explosive or armor piecing rounds for armor. Normally you would carry the loadout necessary for the mission. A small team could easily get into position, use a tag round to put a tracer on assets that a drone could destroy. Having a magazine that would let them quickly switch in that situation is very versatile. Multiple ammo types doesn't necessarily mean more working parts, it just means better designed parts. That is also why you make them modular. Swap and switch makes it easier and faster to diagnose and repair damaged weapons. You don't have to take it apart to figure out why it won't fire, when a chip will tell you to replace Module A.

I also did say not all of the models work. As with all things there will be models that work and models that do not. For example although I like some of the eye candy, a few of their armor is obviously impractical. I'm not saying it will all work but there is a very large amount that does. It does take shifting through the factions to find it, fortunately their website makes it really easy.

As we move towards the future combat is going to become more about being able to train personal and troops quickly and easily. Lets face it, guns are already simple to use but it still doesn't mean someone is efficient to use it. Given our current state of affairs, in another 10 years things will be slightly different. It is already moving towards that where regular civilians end up more dangerous than armed personal. That means trained soliders need more means to give them that edge and simplicity would give them that. Again we are debating theory though since it is modern future. My actual issue with Infinity isn't in fact that they it future modern it is that it isn't future enough given its only 150 years in the future. I would think it would be more advanced.. but then again wars have a way of making things move backwards again.

We have remote drones that carry more firepower than a Battleship. We have nano trackers that can easily be placed into an aerosol. We have power assisted armor (although low on operating time) that isn't large and bulky. Planes today don't even need a pilot or remote operation to land or take off. They tell the public that they need a pilot for it but they don't. We even have cars that can drive themselves. The issue though isn't that the technology isn't there, it is that the public won't widely trust it at first. I guarantee there are at least 4 black ops research that have something just as effective and deadly as well simply based on those. Look at how long Stealth technology was available before pushed to a point we actually used it. Given a real conflict that required something more engaged, I guarantee R&D would already be there.

The armor and mish mash of Infinity has more to do with the various factions. There is one large faction, but in those are smaller separate units and teams. Some of them work well with others and some would be considered good while some could be considered more evil. One faction doesn't just mean one solid force. Also given their background, that is why some are hodge podge or what they gathered or used.

I know what you mean, but you have to at least agree, most (if not all) only have some parts that may be future related. But even then, instead of recommending the range, why not pick out the few models suitable to use without effort?

Uniforms are important though, you cant have one force with 30 different uniforms. Logistics, identification and so on become a problem. Armies dont rely on a general theme like infinity models do. Obviously in real life things work out differently. But the silhouette or colour of uniform can make you think twice about shooting someone. But more importantly, the government doesnt need to supply heaps of uniforms of different type on top of all the other issues.

Your point on plated armour is taken. Its painted like that, which is an excuse I agree. BUT then, it still doesnt change the fact, that the model itself is wearing the typical gladiator style armour (which the model is clearly based off). That one is possible. The model is still only holding a dagger though...

I agree on the tech. Like smgs in WW1 and so on. But how many ideas actually live through? I would say very few. Also innovative doesnt mean useful (see, many german big artillery Pieces). Which is a huge factor.

Ammo, I would argue, unless the gun has an incredibly safe and easy ammo type selection in the gun, it would simply be easier to carry multiple mags. You can keep track a bit easier of what you have, change it up depending on the mission etc. Not something I see a future soldier putting all into one chunky clip.

I would say a tiny amount does. I am not familiar with the whole range I admit, but if you could link the ones you think would be 'realistic' then maybe, you can convince me some of the range is redeemable in that area.

Things like their stance also ruin it for me. It looks like they are leaping every where and so on. Not how I see soldiers move in war footage. All I see is a bunch of animated cartoons running around with implausible stuff looking pretty.

Wars simplify things, because paper doesnt mean reality. the future will always be amazing but not how we think it will end up. I simply look at the past and how things changed and try base it on how things may change.

Also drones dont carry more fire power than Naval vessels. More precise and versatile. But yet again, many weapons being used today have yet to be fully tested in a conventional war. Which is the hard bit about predicting future wars.





Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think, after the big talk, MAYBE I am being reserved in my view of the future (although i think its more likely) while maybe you are being a bit too forward with yours.

At the end of the day, the only way we will find out who is right, is through only bad scenarios.

We are in the inter war stage. Its all wild guesses as to how war will change the world again (in my opinion). But the infinity style is not something the future will have for us.

Almost every faction has anywhere from 3-10 models that would work depending on what area of the world you want the military. You do have to redo the paint styles so you have to look beyond that. Most armor could be painted as similar to sec-pro riot gear. Your plates instead of being metal armor plates would be armor pads similar to riot gear design. Painting them the same color scheme to maintain a armor solidarity is pretty easy. Not to mention little things like if you wanted to shave the size of the clip down or green stuff a midriff is fairly easy.

I guarantee you that whether someone gets shot or not at has nothing to do with the uniform that is what combat situation awareness is for. Most raids are night ops where uniform doesn't even factor into it. The color and silhouette has no factor in it. That is what designated fire zones are for. If someone is in the fire zone, they are in the wrong position period. For greener, newer troops yes this could be an issue until they get more combat experience. Elite and veteran troops tend to start changing what they wear and how they wear it in the field. That is the main reason for uniforms. They are designed to show a solid, unified fighting force during peace time. War time uniforms would tend to be completely differently, most have removed unit affiliations and country patches especially in joint operations. If the uniform was the real factor, the enemy would just put on our uniform and easily overpower the military (especially since depending on the area we wear masks). In a combat situation you have very little time to choose who and what to fire from and the uniform isn't the factor. Uniforms only matter during peace times. But unless you are using them in a RPG style game, most ware games are designed to be played around you playing the heroes, the veterans and elite.

The colors though again are simply superficial. You don't need an armor plate to represent an actual steel plate, it could be kevlar plated. There actually could be a benefit to justifying having a shoulder plate like a gladiator. Going around corners, aiming with that armor protects your shoulders. Even now riot gear is starting to armor more. Historically though most military units don't wear that style as warfare typically revolves around air and ground armor. If we are talking more troop battles, then depending on your terrain it is viable. There is a lot less jungle fighting as most future wars are going involve city fighting. But we are talking about the paint jobs you are looking at. There is nothing stopping someone from painting the uniforms similarly or in the same pattern. The reason in most miniatures games for unique looks is so players can identify the differences between the troops they are using. If they all looked exactly the same, it makes it harder to determine which figure corresponds to what card. Paint them the same camo pattern or same color scheme and you have instant uniforms.

I think, after the big talk, MAYBE I am being reserved in my view of the future (although i think its more likely) while maybe you are being a bit too forward with yours.

At the end of the day, the only way we will find out who is right, is through only bad scenarios.

We are in the inter war stage. Its all wild guesses as to how war will change the world again (in my opinion). But the infinity style is not something the future will have for us.

Unfortunately you are right. Most research and develops for warfare tend to happen during wartime. It ramps up really fast because now they have applicable conditions to test weapons that they spend years R&Ding during peace times. So a lot of what we are talking about is theory. But considering he is showing similar pictures of Robocop... that future isn't too far off the mark either. That is why I guessed that is the type of future world the OP was looking at. You have a reserved outlook and I have a more forward outlook. Now granted if we are talking about a gaming environment, during peace time none of this matters. We wouldn't have a game. When I'm talking modern future, society is already at the point where we are at open warfare. At that point priorities change and weapons ramp up fast, history has proven that. Projects are in the background but nothing will become mainstream unless a major thing happened to do that. For example in Infinity, nations don't exist anymore so clashing and warfare is normal so their weapons would of ramped up slightly.

 Swastakowey wrote:




Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think, after the big talk, MAYBE I am being reserved in my view of the future (although i think its more likely) while maybe you are being a bit too forward with yours.

At the end of the day, the only way we will find out who is right, is through only bad scenarios.

We are in the inter war stage. Its all wild guesses as to how war will change the world again (in my opinion). But the infinity style is not something the future will have for us.

Even then, Infinity isn't too far away compared with anything else you can get, and especially not far from what the OP posted as the robots aren't too far from an Infinity remote (actually even the Infinity remotes are mostly quadraped or wheeled/tracked so they're even more near-future than some of the OP examples).

Just this morning Rebel Minis just released a "new" line of "Earth Force" Near Future troopers.
http://www.rebelminis.com/eafohogu.html

Quite a bargain at $25 for 12 troopers. They are rereleased versions of the old MI troopers from Starship Troopers (Mongoose Games) with the helmets slightly modified to not infringe IP. Also, it includes a couple female troopers that actually look like real female troopers.

Considering that the OP posted pictures of a GECKO and an ED-209, I don't think he's really looking for anything that's especially realistic. I think he's just looking for something that just plain looks cool.

Swastakowey, I think you invalidated your own argument about plate armor considering you yourself posted troops wearing plate armor. I've got those Anvil Industry guys. They're decked out with generally more plate armor than most Infinity figures. And their opposing faction from that line have even heavier plate armor.

About our argument of a lack of uniformity, it is actually there. It's just nullified for the most part by the paintjobs. Most of PanO's troops are wearing the same gear with only slight variations to their uniforms, such as the Kamau having diving gear, the Akalis having airbone gear, etc. It's also very much apparent in the Yu Jing light and medium infantry. The Zhanshis, Tiger Soldiers, Celestial Guards, Bao Troops, and Pheasant Rank Imperial Agents are all wearing pretty much the same uniform. The difference is really just the color and that there is some variation in their actual armor, with the Zhanshis having the lightest version and the Bao Troops and the Pheasant wearing a heavier variant of it. And, there's also the varion line infantry in Haqqislam. The Naffatun, Halqa, and Ghulam are all wearing the same uniforms, just with different armor.

Another important question, is the OP reading these posts? he is not saying anything.