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Good point. Some of those Gashapon figs are pretty high quality too. The fellow on necromundicon does alot of wargaming with them.

I don't know why it's done, but I'm glad it's still relatively rare. PVC would be basically impossible to work with, as a modeller, and if I wanted something that was basically 1 part, what's so wrong with metal? Seems like it's a solution in search of a problem.

Which it will inevitably find. It's only a matter of time before someone tries to use plastic glue on a PVC model and get a trip to the hospital as a result. I have first-hand experience with just how little chlorine gas you need to inhale to wind up in the ER...

Quite a lot actually.

When I was in high school - I was next to a chlorine tank for a competition swimming pool when it was being filled (worked part time cleaning the pool). Hose ruptured. Tossed my lunch. Was fine after a bit of fresh air. Even finished what was left of my shift after the building aired out.

More to the point though.... Huh? What makes you think that using plastic cement on PVC will release chlorine gas? Plastic cement on PVC...does nothing. Not a bit. Even PVC cement (which will actually dissolve it) on PVC doesn't release chlorine gas.

 Ailaros wrote:

Which it will inevitably find. It's only a matter of time before someone tries to use plastic glue on a PVC model and get a trip to the hospital as a result. I have first-hand experience with just how little chlorine gas you need to inhale to wind up in the ER...

What kind of plastic glue were you using? PVC is very resistant to most plastic solvent glues and other chemicals which is why it is used for plumbing applications. I've even given PVC figs baths in acetone and there were no adverse side effects, though one of the minis did deform a tiny bit after a long bath.

PVC is so resistant that the only glue I know of that will melt it reliably is PVC-specific cement that is so harsh it will even fuse soft plastics!

I think by "glue" he means "open flame"?

Getting schooled by Sean_OBrien on the industry, the plastics, and the process. Thanks a lot man, these first two pages were hella informative.

My question. I just got the CMON Relic Knight Kickstarter and the material the minis are made with seems to be PVC. It's totally immune to my plastic cement, and I dislike using CA glues on plastic...I like that melty bond if I can get it. Are there any (non CA) glues out there that work on this type of plastic? Between Relic Knights and Super Dungeon Explore I have some stuff to put together.

PVC cement, although superglue works brilliantly on PVC for the most part as it seems to have a more porous surface than polystyrene.

 MightyGodzilla wrote:
Are there any (non CA) glues out there that work on this type of plastic?

You can get PVC glue at hardware and construction stores such as Lowes, Home Depot, Ace, etc.

Honestly though, PVC glue is over kill. CA works just fine and gives a very strong bond on PVC. Parts break way before the joins give out, at least in my experience.

I do actually use PVC cement for some vinyl models (Weldon 4007 most of the time). In particular, I recently did a Pegasus Tarzan model that I used it on. With a bit of cement and a little pressure - the fit was so good that I didn't need to use any putty on the shoulder joints. Just squeezed till a little came out the edges (along with some melted plastic). Waited for it to set, then used one of my dental scalers to scrape the plastic smooth.

Superglue ends up working quite well for it though. Even smooth PVC is rough enough at the molecular level for the glue to bind well with - very well.

There is another type of plastic glue - works a bit like contact cement. You apply it to both surfaces than stick it together. Forget the name off the top of my head...it has been years since I had used it last. It works well on pretty much anything plastic - including some of the really difficult bendy plastics that really cheap toys are made out of and UHMW plastics (Polyethylene).

 Sean_OBrien wrote:
There is another type of plastic glue - works a bit like contact cement. You apply it to both surfaces than stick it together. Forget the name off the top of my head...it has been years since I had used it last. It works well on pretty much anything plastic - including some of the really difficult bendy plastics that really cheap toys are made out of and UHMW plastics (Polyethylene).

If you remember what it is, could you post it or PM me what it is? I've got some older Power Rangers/Super Sentai role play stuff that could use repairs on their rubbery plastic parts. They're CA'd right now, but I know that's only a temporary fix for displaying and won't hold up when my upcoming son gets old enough to play with them.

Sean O'Brien, you have said everything I could have ever said. I too have seen much misinformation among gamers and the industry.

Its amazing the assumptions people make about the materials we hobby with.

I am an electrician and work with PVC all the time, however I am perfectly comfortable using super glue (aka cyanoacrylate) to glue PVC models, as well as polyester resin models. For styrene and ABS I use the available solvent based glues.

I also see that many are misinformed about molding processes. One of the contractors I used to work for did a lot of installation at a plastics molding plant, so I got a good look at the equipment and processes involved. It's not as magic as everyone makes it out to be.

I too disagree with companies who try to pass off their material as something special when it is just Smooth-on bought in mass quantity. The one thing though I can't figure is mixing styrene in as a filler, doesn't make sense to do that when the styrene itself is "cold" and the two materials are so unlike each other. The resin is cast cold as well and is not going to absorb the styrene, so what real benefit is there in doing that? The only way I can see is if the styrene comes in powdered form. I have seen raw bulk styrene pellets and I have seen re-grind as well. It makes more sense to heat it to a flowing level and push it in to a mold than to just mix it in to resin, you might as well use sand or wood shavings if all you want is volume.


Also I think the glue you are talking about is called E-6000 by Goop.

Loctite All Plastic looks like it is the new name.

Found the old tubes, and the last I used it - it was called Super Plastix (they must have had a trade secret on the name...and now the secret is out of the bag - so they are acknowledging it is superglue and an industrial primer - n-Hexane according to the MSDS).

When I used that last though (under the Super Plastix name) I used it on some kids toys that I hacked up and glued back together again. Most bendy stuff that other glues failed on. The Super Plastix stuck well enough I couldn't pull the joint apart with moderate force.

Just to check it out for completeness - I took a damaged garden hose, cut that and then edge glued it back together again. Tied off the end and turned on the water...managed to withstand 60 PSI water pressure just fine - but it burst under the 120 PSI water from the sprinkler pump.

Granted - if CA glues are not your thing...CA glues plus hexane will probably not be your thing either (hexane on its own is enough to scare a lot of people off).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

xraytango wrote:
Also I think the glue you are talking about is called E-6000 by Goop.

That will stick it too - but I have never seen E-6000 in small enough packaging to make it easy to control. It will stick everything to everything - but the name of the company is rather fitting.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

xraytango wrote:
The one thing though I can't figure is mixing styrene in as a filler, doesn't make sense to do that when the styrene itself is "cold" and the two materials are so unlike each other.

Can't figure it out myself either.

Glass microspheres are a better option for weight reduction and improved flow. Glass fibers are better for general strength (something like 16 micron milled glass fibers). Plasticizers like DPGDB (dipropylene glycol) are better for improving the impact resistance and general durability. Other fillers are added for cosmetic reasons (and to a lesser extent things like thermal resistance and increased weight) like metal or ceramic/stone powders.

I know I have seen HIPS microspheres - but I don't think I recall ever hearing or reading anything that indicates a useful trait about them.

It would be one thing if he was using it in high enough concentrations to allow the material to be glued with plastic cement - but that is clearly not the case...

...though starting to get a bit off the PVC v Styrene issue at hand.

Thanks, Sean, I'll take a look around for it.