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Made in us
Cosmic Joe





They need to look more like this
Spoiler:

And less "sexy bondage warrior."
More Texas Chainsaw Massacre and less Madonna.



Also, check out my history blog: Minimum Wage Historian, a fun place to check out history that often falls between the couch cushions. 
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor






Or like this, which is I think may be the first image of a Repentia ever published:
[Thumb - blancherepentia.jpg]
Repentia with boltgun - original Blanche artwork


BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN

Novice Ginevra stories: Bolter B-Word Privileges (Sisters of Battle), Ollanius Pius Requiem (Sisters & Guard), Able Baker (Inquisition), The Beginning & Dancing with the Astartes (Marines)
A sequel: Army of Minerva - A Sister Ginevra Story
And you should read Lynta on why there is no canon in 40K

 Psienesis wrote:
Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.

 
   
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Pittsburgh, PA, USA

 SisterSydney wrote:
Restoring permanent Feel No Pain, the way the Repentia had in the White Dwarf mini-dex, would go a long way to making them viable. So would an assault vehicle.


How is it POSSIBLE that you posted a reply without a link to a set of homebrewed rules?! I need links if I'm going to understand anything you post! LINKS!!!!

   
Made in us
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Well, I tried to restrain myself from the relentless self-promotion for a change, but of course I have a Relic that creates an FNP bubble for Repentia and a Repentia assault vehicle in my fandex/expandex. C&C much appreciated.

(Yes I know you were making fun of me about doing exactly this but aaaarggh can't help myself).

BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN

Novice Ginevra stories: Bolter B-Word Privileges (Sisters of Battle), Ollanius Pius Requiem (Sisters & Guard), Able Baker (Inquisition), The Beginning & Dancing with the Astartes (Marines)
A sequel: Army of Minerva - A Sister Ginevra Story
And you should read Lynta on why there is no canon in 40K

 Psienesis wrote:
Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.

 
   
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Canada

 MWHistorian wrote:
They need to look more like this
Spoiler:

And less "sexy bondage warrior."
More Texas Chainsaw Massacre and less Madonna.


 SisterSydney wrote:
Or like this, which is I think may be the first image of a Repentia ever published:

Both of these are waaaaaay closer to how I envisage Repentia. Like I said though, nakedness is akin to shame in Christianity so there is a precedent for showing some skin... it's all in the presentation though.

Never doubt yourself. Only let it make you stronger... Unless you're the PDF. In which case, you'll be killed to a man.

Andilus Greatsword's Great Company - ~10,000pts Hive Fleet Maliades - ~8500pts Raven Sword - ~3000pts Sisters of Battle - ~1800pts Barloq's Temple City - ~4000pts 
   
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England: Newcastle

 dracpanzer wrote:
Although I have to admit that the design of the Repentia models wouldn't have been my first choice. I don't have any problem with the models, if you don't like the thought of
Personally, I couldn't disagree more with the OP. I think we need to find more unit ideas for the SoB that aren't just rehashed SM units, we don't need to remove any.



Which is impossible and GW has already drawn general inspiration from its Space Marine line to make SoB units. Hence why their basic troops wear power armor, have bolters, use rhinos, have the penitent engine as a dreadnought equivalent.

If you are basically saying that they:

1- Can't have heavy tanks like predators

2- Can't have troop transports like land raiders

3- Can't have any form of close combat infantry with power weapons or lightening claws.

4- Can't give them close combat weapons of any type mentioned above in general.

5- Can't have any kind of exo suit or more heavily armoured unit as its too close to Terminators or Centurions.

6- Can't give them living saints or any sort of angelic saintly units as that's treading on the Blood Angels toes too much.

7- Can't give them any flame weapons because that's a Salamanders speciality

8- Can't give them any long range anti tank.


Frankly I simply would have no interest in the army if it was just all gothic religious zealot army and for arguments sake if GW got rid of the "girls in power armor" thing completely. I mean I would just end up buying Sisters of Silence anyway (note that GW felt the need to invent a girls in power armor faction for HH: seeing a theme here?) but it would be genuinely annoying if GW really went down the root you're proposing,

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/22 22:39:58



Starting Sons of Horus Legion

Starting Daughters of Khaine

2000pts Sisters of Silence

4000pts Fists Legion
Sylvaneth A forest
III Legion 5000pts
XIII Legion 9000pts
Hive Fleet Khadrim 5000pts
Kabal of the Torn Lotus .4000pts
Coalition of neo Sacea 5000pts



 
   
Made in us
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A tangent, but: can you actually build a full 30K army with just Sisters of Silence?

BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN

Novice Ginevra stories: Bolter B-Word Privileges (Sisters of Battle), Ollanius Pius Requiem (Sisters & Guard), Able Baker (Inquisition), The Beginning & Dancing with the Astartes (Marines)
A sequel: Army of Minerva - A Sister Ginevra Story
And you should read Lynta on why there is no canon in 40K

 Psienesis wrote:
Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.

 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





England: Newcastle

Forgeworld are going to do a book on the battle of Prospero. So they are going to do a Sisters of Silence army along with all of the other ones.


Starting Sons of Horus Legion

Starting Daughters of Khaine

2000pts Sisters of Silence

4000pts Fists Legion
Sylvaneth A forest
III Legion 5000pts
XIII Legion 9000pts
Hive Fleet Khadrim 5000pts
Kabal of the Torn Lotus .4000pts
Coalition of neo Sacea 5000pts



 
   
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Quite certain I didn't say any of those things. Just don't think we need to remove any of the units we currently have.

I would prefer that if we were to add any units that they be something that enhanced the character of the army rather than just taking marine models and putting a sororitas head on it. The repentia add to the flavor of the army, to bad they are terrible atm.

I think a unit of infiltrating BS with storm shields and power mauls that had fnp so long as they were on an objective would be a nice second troop choice that would fit the bill of a unit of sisters tasked to defend a shrine to the last. Could also be a nod towards the similar duties they often share with arbites.

I plan on doing a sister of silence counts as a Culexis just to get the pariah effect onto the table.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/22 23:17:27


Sisters of Battle
Genestealer Cults
Daemons lots of Daemons
Daughters of Khaine
Bretonnians

 
   
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 Totalwar1402 wrote:
Um, no you're being really disingenuous, the theme is very much "girls in power armour". Religious zealots exist in other armies such as Word Bearers, Black Templars and even thematic Imperial Guard armies with Priests. If GW wanted to make an army of zealots and focused on a pure Ecclesiarchy army then why on earth would they have chosen to make them all women, wear power armor and carry bolters; essentially making them female space marines? You could easily represent such a force without having them be girls, have power armor or have bolters. No, the core fundamental reason for this armies existence is not because GW wanted to represent the army of the Ecclesiarchy or have a religious zealot army, they exist because they wanted an all girl army in power armor. The religious fanatic theme was simply applied on top of that to try and give the army more of an identity but its an idea which follows from the core concept.

Well, I disagree. For me, the Sisters of Battle are “Some guy with near absolute power and next to no sense, or taste for that matter, wants to design his own super-elite force. The result is some very, very baroque and borderline stupid stuff”. Like the Sisters armor, or the Exorcist design. The religious theme is here because not only religious extremists are fun, but because who was famous for having tons and tons of money and power, and little sense on how to use them, and for displaying lavish baroque art all over the place? Well, the Roman Catholic church.
This is what makes them unique. All Space Marine stuff look like it was made to be functional at first, and then it was then (more or less, depending on the kind of marines) corrupted by religious ignorance and superstition. The Exorcist looks like some kind of idiot thought “Hey, let us make a tank that looks like an organ, but shot rockets instead”, and then threw money at the idea until someone finally managed to make it work somehow. Though if it was designed by Vandire, money was likely not the only thing that was thrown away quite liberally, he sure knew other ways to keep people motivated. Mostly painful ones .

As for repentia, I dislike the way eviscerator are portrayed anyway. It all boils down to the huge, and not sensible power boost they got when they entered 40k, like everything that came from Inquisitor, the almostRPG game. They are supposed to be a huge barbaric chainsword. They should be a quite poor melee weapon, that do hit stronger than a regular chainsword, at the cost of a drawback. Right now they are literally better than a power fist! Repentia should not need to be protected by anything else than dirt-cheap point cost, with a rule that prevents them for holding objective. That way their actual purpose on the table would be to run at the nearest meat-grinder in order to buy their fellow Sisters some time by their death. Fluffy and flavorful.
Repentia should be only slightly more expensive than grots. Better than those at close combat, but unable to hold objective and no shooting weapon. About as fragile.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/22 23:45:01


 
   
Made in gb
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England: Newcastle

They're supposed to be an army of saintly Joan of Arc types. Hence why big hulking steampunk torture machines and bdsm flaggelants don't fit. I already have a dark eldar army, there's no need to have more.


Starting Sons of Horus Legion

Starting Daughters of Khaine

2000pts Sisters of Silence

4000pts Fists Legion
Sylvaneth A forest
III Legion 5000pts
XIII Legion 9000pts
Hive Fleet Khadrim 5000pts
Kabal of the Torn Lotus .4000pts
Coalition of neo Sacea 5000pts



 
   
Made in fr
Hallowed Canoness





You are not answering in any way to anything I just said. I personally dislike the PE, which are basically arcoflagellant (an awesome, awesome, very grimdark idea) turned stupid. But those are an Ecclesiarchy unit anyway.
The repentia do not have to look BDSM. Just like the arcoflagellant do not look BDSM. This is just the good old prejudice of “women↔sex” at work going on here, sadly. The Sisters are too sinister for being only saintly Joan of Arc types. Remember, the Catechism of Hate and everything. 40k, grimdark and all that.

 
   
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Seattle

 Totalwar1402 wrote:
They're supposed to be an army of saintly Joan of Arc types. Hence why big hulking steampunk torture machines and bdsm flaggelants don't fit. I already have a dark eldar army, there's no need to have more.


Ehm... you know that Joan of Arc was martyred, right? Take Joan of Arc, and turn her up to 11... and do away with the fact that she was a nice kid, and instead make her a xenophobic extremist with the power and the right to purge entire worlds of the unfaithful, the infidel and the impure.

The huge, hulking torture machine (just because it has buzz-saw hands does not make it steampunk) and "bdsm flagellants" are part and parcel of the early Catholic church. Even contemporary to Joan of Arc... and they predate BDSM as a recognized fetish by centuries.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/23 00:01:04


It is best to be a pessimist. You are usually right and, when you're wrong, you're pleasantly surprised. 
   
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Colorado

My only grip with the op is that the Sisters Repentia are not Ecclesiarch units they are apart of and belong to the Adepta Sororitas.

the Penitent Engine is a Ecclesiarch unit and the purpose for the pilot to be exposed is because they not suppose to survive and the pilots are intended to die in battle

However the Sisters Repentia are a SoB unit and still part of the Adepta Sororitas. It is pointed out in the op as to why do they not weir armor and it doesn't make sense, Well why do Repentia not weir armor? Because said Sister has Failed in a mission or sinned and know's that she is no longer worthy nor has the right to weir armor. Also B, the rule of cool and the rule of Grim Dark there is only war over rides any sense able and reasonable logic like giving armor a religious zealot fanatic who has sinned and is seeking redemption through death to increase their serviablility.

"Sisters Repentia are fanatical self-mutilating warriors of the Sisters of Battle. Having failed or fallen short of the Sororitas' strict religious codes in the past, Repentia Sisters seek to earn the Emperor's grace once more by self-flagellation and find a glorious death in the heat of battle. Though ultimately outcasts, they are none the less revered by their fellow Sisters, who see them as pilgrims seeking the absolution of death and ultimate sacrifice in the name of the Emperor." (codex Witch Hunters 3rd ed.)

An Adeptus Sororitas may choose to join the Repentia as an act of penance. The ritual of casting aside her status as Battle Sister is undertaken with her squad members in attendance and in the presence of a superior officer. The ritual is as follows[2]: (Novel - Faith and Fire by James Swallow)
Penitent
I am far from absolution. Lost to any exculpation. I offer myself to repentance. Before the Emperor I have sinned. Beyond forgiveness. Beyond forbearance. Beyond mercy.
The Squad members take the Penitent's wargear and cast it aside. They use the remnants of robes to roughly clothe the Penitent.

Squad
We turn our backs upon you. We cast off your armour and your arms.

Penitent
I leave this company of my own free will and by my will shall I return. I shall seek the Emperor's forgiveness in the darkest places of the night.
The Penitent's hair is roughly shorn with a knife.

Squad
When forgiveness is yours, we shall welcome you back. Until such time you are nameless to us.

Penitent
See me and do not see me. Know me and know fear, for I have no face today but this one. I stand before you a Sister Repentia, until absolution finds me once more.

Officer
So shall it be.


 MWHistorian wrote:
They need to look more like this
Spoiler:

And less "sexy bondage warrior."
More Texas Chainsaw Massacre and less Madonna.


This one here is probably the closest to the artwork




Also SoB be like...

Spoiler:

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/12/23 00:34:24


"Go for Broke!" - 34th ID

*warning spelling errors may and will happen in my posts*
Fox-Light713 WIP thread - http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/296932.page
 
   
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SoCal, USA!

The problem for Sisters of Battle is that the limited models of Nuns with Guns isn't particularly compelling.

Repentia, Penitent Engines, Frateris Militia are all great options to expand the Codex into something more playable, and there is no reason to take them if you don't want them.

There are some players who like the variety of a Ecclesarcy force, with the various Priests and other Ministorum forces. In that context, where the Sisters are a part of the whole, the army has more potential to grow where it has otherwise clearly failed to date.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/23 00:40:23


   
Made in us
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Seattle

Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced to 40k as it currently exists.

The problem is lack of effort on GW's part.

It is best to be a pessimist. You are usually right and, when you're wrong, you're pleasantly surprised. 
   
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[MOD]
Cutting stuff up and bunging it back together in new and interesting ways.






Under the couch

 Totalwar1402 wrote:
They're supposed to be an army of saintly Joan of Arc types.

Only in the same way as Space Marines are 'Angels'.

They're Joan D'Arc types... but Grimdarked.

 
   
Made in us
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator





Pittsburgh, PA, USA

It says quite clearly that Repentia are "exiled" from their order; no longer recognized as Sisters. At that point, you can call them SoB all you want,, but they clearly are not. The Mistress that leads the squad has the stats of a Celestian, and bears the fleur de lys of some order. So, what organization oversees these units? Clearly, a Repentia can't judge herself as redeemed. That's done by the Mistress. So, how do Repentia gather together in groups, find a Mistress to lead them, then make it to the next battle to find redemption? There must be some over-arching authority, right? The Ecclesiarchy would seem the most logical choice here.

Ergo, Repentia are not Sisters, they are Ecclesiarchy. Unless someone can cite canon otherwise.

I still advocate for a Codex: Ecclesiarchy as being a much more interesting concept than Codex: Adepta Uterus or whatever GW refers to them these days.

   
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SoCal, USA!

Codex: Adeptus Ministorum

   
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Pittsburgh, PA, USA

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Codex: Adeptus Ministorum


Codex: Adepta Uterus was a jab at GW's need to rename things in faux Latin to protect its IP.

edit: corrected my faux faux pas

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/23 01:46:21


   
Made in us
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SoCal, USA!

"feaux"? What, Nawlins speak?

   
Made in au
[MOD]
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Under the couch

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
"feaux"? What, Nawlins speak?

What does the feaux say?



I do agree, though, that a Ministorum codex is a more interesting idea than solely SoB.

 
   
Made in us
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SoCal, USA!

"Geaux 'aints!", perhaps?

   
Made in ca
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Canada

 fox-light713 wrote:
This one here is probably the closest to the artwork




Also SoB be like...

Spoiler:

Love that mini, I painted mine up to look like this shot from Haute Tension because of the similar pose (and craziness):
Spoiler:



Automatically Appended Next Post:
 insaniak wrote:
 JohnHwangDD wrote:
"feaux"? What, Nawlins speak?

What does the feaux say?



I do agree, though, that a Ministorum codex is a more interesting idea than solely SoB.

Mhmm, it would be most sensible for GW to do a whole Ecclesiarchy + Sororitas Codex imho.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/23 01:57:14


Never doubt yourself. Only let it make you stronger... Unless you're the PDF. In which case, you'll be killed to a man.

Andilus Greatsword's Great Company - ~10,000pts Hive Fleet Maliades - ~8500pts Raven Sword - ~3000pts Sisters of Battle - ~1800pts Barloq's Temple City - ~4000pts 
   
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USA

Iunno. I'd be okay with giving Sisters more power armored units, but I also see the merit of units like repentia. I would prefer the Sisters to have an eclectic mix of Imperial stuff, myself, towing the line between marines and guard, while having a bit of an optional freakshow going on with repentia and the ecclesiarchal stuff.

I know I'm weird in that I kind of want sisters to get armored sentinels and the like rather than dreadnoughts, or an uparmored immolator with a unique melta weapon as the MBT instead of a predator.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/23 02:09:55


The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
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Missouri

 insaniak wrote:
Sisters of Battle have been in the 40K backstory since Rogue Trader (they were responsible for the purge of the Rainbow Warriors for Heresy, amongst other things)


OH, so that's why no one likes Sisters of Battle. They killed the Rainbow Warriors!

 insaniak wrote:
Again, an army's core theme does not dictate that every single model in that army must include that thematic element.


A little contrast now and then doesn't hurt. Then again I'm not sure if I personally like the Repentia, either...it's more or less the models for them than the actual idea, though, I guess.

 SisterSydney wrote:
Or like this, which is I think may be the first image of a Repentia ever published:


I like that, actually. Also like the idea of gunslinger Repentia dual-wielding pistols like that.

 Desubot wrote:
Why isnt Slut Wars: The Sexpocalypse a real game dammit.


"It's easier to change the rules than to get good at the game." 
   
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 Totalwar1402 wrote:
Let me explain. This army would never have carried on its perpetual half life (with the bare minimum of prodding from GW lorewise) if it weren't for the fact that they are to all intents and purposes female space marines.

It's never why I played the army honestly. If I wanted to play Marines I'd play Marines. Marines are better at being Marines than Sisters are after all.

 Totalwar1402 wrote:
As described above, repentia and pentitent engines do not fit with the general look or underlying theme of sisters of battle.

Religious zealots in space don't have room for people being punished for failing or being horrible criminals? What.

 Totalwar1402 wrote:
Yes, they're religious fanatics and have the gothic look. But not to that extent and dispensing of armor gets rid of their whole identity as sisters of battle. It is the main distinguishing feature of sisters of battle and differentiates them from imperial guard for example. Whilst the Penitent engine just looks plain stupid with the pilot totally exposed. Standing alongside basic sisters the units look out of place and you wouldn't think they were part of the same army. Unlike for example a marine dread next to a regular marine. I really really hope they cut those units or at least don't bother updating them.

I disagree honestly. The idea that they can be so fanatical (and badass) that they'll go into armor dressed in rags with a chainsaw that can cleave tanks to seek redemption fits the theme of "religious fanatics" wonderfully. And the Penitent Engine is no more stupid than the Dreadknight in concept and is more akin to what a stripped down Dreadnought on a sentinel's legs would be. Or do we want to pretend having a coffin sitting right in the front of a Dreadnought with just a thin lid of armor protecting the squishy corpse is really that much better?

 Totalwar1402 wrote:
I also dislike the notion that the armies elite units with some of the best equipment should be its rejects...rather than regular sisters of battle. Surely the best equipment and the best trained units would be exemplars of being SoB.

Fluff wise the Celestians should be the best equipped of the Sisters but the rules don't represent that well (due to the lack of an improved Invul save or ability to have Artificer Armor which would at least make them worth being more expensive Battle Sisters with +1WS (being WS4 instead of WS3) and +1A). And Eviscerators used to be available for all the Superiors in the army but GW screwed the pooch by removing that (likely due to dwindling model supplies) so blaming the Repentia for that is silly. Also your rank and file Battle Sisters are the initiates to the order so shouldn't be given the best equipment (as Sisters have no Scout equivalent and take a Blood Claw approach to new recruits instead).

 Totalwar1402 wrote:
Plus in such a small army, giving two unit slots over to non SoB units is just stupid. Especially because if they did do a plastic release then doing things like repentia and PE in plastic will take away attention from actual SoB units.

Repentia are Sisters though. They're Sisters who have failed in some way, feel that they are not worthy to serve the Emperor as Sisters and take the Vow of Repentance, either dying in battle or eventually earning forgiveness in the blood of the enemies of the Imperium. And just because the army is small now doesn't mean it always will be. I'd be surprised if it didn't get a bit of a size increase when it gets an eventual update (since it has no anti-air, or air support currently in the codex proper).


   
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I declare any theme argument against Penitent Engine invalid!


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Sisters Repentia and Penitent Engines are great, really. They're meh rules-wise, but why take options away from the sisters?

I personally like how Penitent Engines look, as well. Very grimdark 'inquisition-y'
   
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 insaniak wrote:
 Totalwar1402 wrote:
They're supposed to be an army of saintly Joan of Arc types.

Only in the same way as Space Marines are 'Angels'.

They're Joan D'Arc types... but Grimdarked.


They're Joan of Grim D'Arc.
   
 
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