Necron lychguard or paretorians?

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**Hollismason**

Overall for 28ppm for a ST5 T5 , 3+ , 5+ , Jump Troop w/ ST6 shots and Rending , Fearless. Really can't do any better. Such a great unit.

Lychguard are wonderful but really don't have the movement the Praetorians have.

**vipoid**

I think I still prefer the Rods with Praetorians. AP2 seems much more valuable than anti-tank in our army.

**Sir Arun**

anybody surprised lychguard/praets are no longer available on waylandgames? I swear they were still up about 2 weeks ago.

Now everybody and their mother is buying a box.

**Slayer-Fan123**

I'm more pleased with Praetorians myself, simply because mobility is so key. They don't need much investment whatsoever.

**vipoid**

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I'm more pleased with Praetorians myself, simply because mobility is so key. They don't need much investment whatsoever.

Yeah, I'm thinking along the same lines. In addition to the better mobility, Praetorians seem a bit more self-contained.

**skoffs**

... are you guys really going to rely on Gauss to take down Superheavies?
That just doesn't seem like a sound tactical plan.
Storm-teks were great because they were almost always guaranteed at least 3 glances. Stick two of them with some Warriors in a Nightscythe and there was nothing they couldn't wreck.
Now?

**vipoid**

skoffs wrote:
... are you guys really going to rely on Gauss to take down Superheavies?

What would you suggest instead?

skoffs wrote:

Storm-teks were great because they were almost always guaranteed at least 3 glanes. Stick two of them with some Warriors in a Nightscythe and there was nothing they couldn't wreck.

I agree, but it's not like people are refusing to take storm crypteks. We just can't anymore.

**changemod**

I have a suggestion I'm working on:

Cutting four of my Storm Cryptek models apart at the waist, attaching them to destroyer bodies, and running them as proxies for the Harlequin formation with minimum requirements of four Skyweavers and a Voidweaver. Five Haywire cannons, and the models are somewhat salvaged.

Just need a conversion idea for a Voidweaver proxy platform for the head Stormtek to stand on and I'm good to go.

**skoffs**

vipoid wrote:
skoffs wrote:
... are you guys really going to rely on Gauss to take down Superheavies?

What would you suggest instead?

skoffs wrote:

Storm-teks were great because they were almost always guaranteed at least 3 glanes. Stick two of them with some Warriors in a Nightscythe and there was nothing they couldn't wreck.

I agree, but it's not like people are refusing to take storm crypteks. We just can't anymore.

It was the statistically worst anti-AV method in the last codex (mathhammer on 20 warriors rapid firing into AV14 resulted in sadness). The gauss rule in regards to vehicles has not changed, so suddenly adopting it as the go to method for dealing with Superheavies doesn't make sense. (in fact, that tactic actually got worse, as previously we could use Zahndrekh to grant them tank hunters... can't do that anymore unless there's an enemy unit nearby who conveniently have that ability).

To be honest, I'm struggling to find a viable method of dealing with vehicles in this new codex.
Gauss spam? Meh, if you want to devote your entire army to taking down one tank, knock yourself out.
Warscythe Lychguard? Too slow, then thing's probably going to get away.
Scarabs? About the same as gauss.
Heavy Gauss Canons? Not horrible, but still not super effective against high AV.
Heat Ray Stalker? Double melta shot isn't bad, but range is too short to make it an MVP in the anti-tank department.
Doom Scythes? Might actually be our best bet, but let's keep going.
Void Blade Praetorians lead by a Warscythe Destroyer Lord? Hmm. Rending, entropic strike, rerolls, and armor bane, all on a fast moving albeit leapfrogging unit... it might be worth looking into.

**caelim**

Scarabs are actually pretty good against non-walkers. Each base is about 0.5 Hull Points, six bases wrecks most tanks.

Problem is that that WS2 means against almost any walker, it loses half that power.

**col_impact**

skoffs wrote:
vipoid wrote:
skoffs wrote:
... are you guys really going to rely on Gauss to take down Superheavies?

What would you suggest instead?

skoffs wrote:

Storm-teks were great because they were almost always guaranteed at least 3 glanes. Stick two of them with some Warriors in a Nightscythe and there was nothing they couldn't wreck.

I agree, but it's not like people are refusing to take storm crypteks. We just can't anymore.

It was the statistically worst anti-AV method in the last codex (mathhammer on 20 warriors rapid firing into AV14 resulted in sadness). The gauss rule in regards to vehicles has not changed, so suddenly adopting it as the go to method for dealing with Superheavies doesn't make sense. (in fact, that tactic actually got worse, as previously we could use Zahndrekh to grant them tank hunters... can't do that anymore unless there's an enemy unit nearby who conveniently have that ability).

To be honest, I'm struggling to find a viable method of dealing with vehicles in this new codex.
Gauss spam? Meh, if you want to devote your entire army to taking down one tank, knock yourself out.
Warscythe Lychguard? Too slow, then thing's probably going to get away.
Scarabs? About the same as gauss.
Heavy Gauss Canons? Not horrible, but still not super effective against high AV.
Heat Ray Stalker? Double melta shot isn't bad, but range is too short to make it an MVP in the anti-tank department.
Doom Scythes? Might actually be our best bet, but let's keep going.
Void Blade Praetorians lead by a Warscythe Destroyer Lord? Hmm. Rending, entropic strike, rerolls, and armor bane, all on a fast moving albeit leapfrogging unit... it might be worth looking into.

bargeLord is good anti-tank

**skoffs**

Against Superheavies?

**Okapi**

How are Praetorians any better than Scarabs at killing tanks? The latter are cheaper, faster and have more attacks. Wraith are costlier, but also faster, have the same number of attacks and are much more durable.

**skoffs**

Requesting mathhammer:
9 Scarabs (180 points) vs 7 Void Blade Praetorians (189 pts) vs 5 Wraiths (200 pts)
Just considering offensive statistics against AV11-12-13-14
Both the units by themselves and then the units accompanied by Destroyer Lord with Warscythe (non-decurion).

*not including Lychguard because too slow

**col_impact**

skoffs wrote:
Against Superheavies?

Superheavies yes.

Superheavy walkers with D or armorbane CC weapons, no.

Imperial Knight is something we cannot throw the bargeLord at, but we can certainly throw the bargeLord at tanks and SHV and anything that doesn't have a can opener CC weapon.

**changemod**

skoffs wrote:

*not including Lychguard because too slow

And also because eight Scythe Lychguard straight up will evaporate most Superheavy vehicles.

If you want them to make it in, use a Zahndrekh catapult to precisely drop the unit one inch away from your target superheavy.

**Sir Arun**

changemod wrote:
If you want them to make it in, use a Zahndrekh catapult to precisely drop the unit one inch away from your target superheavy.

please explain

**changemod**

Sir Arun wrote:
changemod wrote:
If you want them to make it in, use a Zahndrekh catapult to precisely drop the unit one inch away from your target superheavy.

please explain

Obyron can land without scattering if he does so within 12 inches of Zahndrekh.

For turn one, a Cryptek with the Veil of Darkness can move Zahndrekh's unit (Probably Shieldguard if you're doing it this way for surviving) to an open space, letting him be close enough for Obyron to do the drop.

**Sir Arun**

so you want to bring your warlord within 12 " of a superheavy just so another unit can DS without scatter next to it? Thats an awful lot of points invested

**adamsouza**

Warriors are too easy to tie up in assault, too slow, and short ranged, to rely on for dealing with superheavies.

I'd throw Scarabs at them. Not that entropic touch is any better than guass, but scarabs are highly mobile, and have 5 attacks on the charge. Although, I also play with a scarab farm, so I always have tons of scarabs, and can afford to lose some to enemy fire and stomp attacks, and still have enough to get the job done.

As for Lychguard and Praetoreans, I'm building 40 (10 of each type) to see what works best.

I play against people who like to DeepStrike terminators into my deployment zone, so I imagine Scytheguard, even just sitting in my deployment zone will find some use, due to their AP2.

Sword and Board Lychguard seem like they will draw ungodly amounts of fire, or hammernators, and I'm okay with that.

Rod Praetoreans' high mobilty and 12 ranged AP2 seem like they will jump around the board taking out priority targets.

**changemod**

Sir Arun wrote:
so you want to bring your warlord within 12 " of a superheavy just so another unit can DS without scatter next to it? Thats an awful lot of points invested

Well, I've only used the Zahndrekh Catapult in one game so far, but it worked wonders in opening up a second front the enemy had to deal with. Especially with a turbo boosting shooty command barge and a small unit of infiltrating Flayed Ones for backup.

Wasn't against a superheavy, but I'd definitely stick the Scytheguard in a Knight's face if it came up.

**Galorian**

I got a great deal on a few boxes of Immortals so I used their chest, legs and left arm bits to make both out of the Praetorians/Lychguards boxes I have.

Once I'm done assembling I'll have 20 Lychguards and 15 Praetorians.

**skoffs**

changemod wrote:
skoffs wrote:

*not including Lychguard because too slow

And also because eight Scythe Lychguard straight up will evaporate most Superheavy vehicles.

If you want them to make it in, use a Zahndrekh catapult to precisely drop the unit one inch away from your target superheavy.

?
Necron turn one: Zahndrekh + Veil-tek teleport over to other side of table in an open space around 7-9" away from the target Superheavy. Obyron + ScytheGuard then teleport between Z and Superheavy (hopefully 1" away)... and sit there doing nothing.
Opponent turn one: Superheavy moves away 12". Then can either shoot at Obyrons unit or move further away. Smart opponent would then seek to put something else in the way (if they hadn't already bubble wrapped from the beginning of the game).
Necron turn two: Superheavy is now 12+" away, possibly with a speed bump between it and the ScytheGuard.
You could try playing catch up the entire game, but I have a feeling the opponent would have the upper hand, there.

Lychguard are just too slow to be used offensively for the majority of targets you'd want to sic them on.
They are best used in a defensive assault deterrent manner... but then, if your opponent was smart, they'd just avoid them, meaning that's a lot of points doing nothing the whole game that could have been used to bring more of something else more effective.

**changemod**

If it's 13 inches away, that's a 7 inch charge. Entirely doable. If it isn't, it wasted a shooting turn fleeing.

People will frequently say that people can just walk away from assault units, but once they actually get close it never works out that way.

And sure, you can feed a unit to them to buy safety. That's still an upper hand, you've thrown one of your more limited number of units (because you're running a superheavy) into a blender to buy time.