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Made in us
Gargantuan Gargant





New Bedford, MA USA

In BFG the escort sized vehicles could land, but the Cruisers and larger vessels could not, unless they were Orks.

This could of course be simply because Orks are willing to crash land, and ruin a ship, if it will get them close enough to whack somethig with a Choppa.

   
Made in us
Nurgle Predator Driver with an Infestation





Greenville, South Carolina

in BFG could the orks take off again after they crashed
   
Made in gb
Highlord with a Blackstone Fortress






Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.

 adamsouza wrote:
In BFG the escort sized vehicles could land, but the Cruisers and larger vessels could not, unless they were Orks.

This could of course be simply because Orks are willing to crash land, and ruin a ship, if it will get them close enough to whack something with a Choppa.


More support that those transports on Ghostmaker were actual BFG transports.

I can buy that atmosphere capable capital ships are a rarity in the 41st millenium.

n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.

It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. 
   
Made in ca
Ancient Venerable Black Templar Dreadnought





Canada

 Grey Templar wrote:
I tremble to think what orks would do if they captured a Borg cube.
I tremble to think what would happen with an Ork that got "assimilated" or even if it is possible.

The Imperium of man tends to throw insane manpower at things, assimilation would be also somewhat insane.
I figure there would be a stupid amount of Borg after just a couple engagements.

It would be an interesting time for the Inquisition and the overuse of "Exterminatus".

A revolution is an idea which has found its bayonets.
Napoleon Bonaparte 
   
Made in us
Nurgle Predator Driver with an Infestation





Greenville, South Carolina

What is the extent of the borg using land vehicles? i dont know much about them on land? maybe the imperium would have an easy time getting them in land battles untill their resources were depleated?
   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

In general, star trek has a total lack of ground combat.

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

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Made in us
Nurgle Predator Driver with an Infestation





Greenville, South Carolina

earlier in the thread someone said that the imperium uses lots of solid projectiles, i thought the standard issue weapon for the guard was a lasgun. The lasgun is a laser weapon right? this would mean that after a few shots a large majority of the imperial ground forces would be useless in ranged combat because of the borgs adaptive shields right?
   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter






 Alienoid wrote:
earlier in the thread someone said that the imperium uses lots of solid projectiles, i thought the standard issue weapon for the guard was a lasgun. The lasgun is a laser weapon right? this would mean that after a few shots a large majority of the imperial ground forces would be useless in ranged combat because of the borgs adaptive shields right?


Probably for the rest of there armament, like nearly EVERY lemon is some form of shell and all da artillery as well. IIRC most of there stuff in space was missiles beside the main cannons. (im probably horribly wrong abut the space thing)

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/03/10 19:44:01


 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 Scott-S6 wrote:
And yet another thread is hijacked for Unit to ask for the same advice, receive the same answers and make the same excuses.

Oh my god I'm becoming martel.
Send help!

 
   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

Space ship main guns are primarily a mixture of rail guns, coil guns, plasma and laser cannons, particle accelerators, and mass drives. So a mix of energy and solid matter weaponry.

Lance batteries are energy, but they're obscenely large. Even Borg shielding goes down to powerful enough attacks.

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in ca
Ancient Venerable Black Templar Dreadnought





Canada

 Grey Templar wrote:
Lance batteries are energy, but they're obscenely large. Even Borg shielding goes down to powerful enough attacks.
Sorry I found this rather funny: "Feel free to adapt to this... if you survive the first hit!"

A revolution is an idea which has found its bayonets.
Napoleon Bonaparte 
   
Made in gb
Prophetic Blood Angel Librarian




I wondered where this thread had got to. If lasguns don't work then the guard would simply acquisition the planetary populace's/arbites autogun weaponary. Or after the forst encounter, the administratum would attempt to supply the regiments facing the borg with auto weaponary.
Even without them being re supplied, a guard regiment has access to shotguns and granade launchers for its vets, heavy bolters, autocannons, mortars and such for its heavy weapons teams and heavy bolters and shells for its tanks. And it's not like the shambling borg drones will be a difficult target.
   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter






Poly Ranger wrote:
I wondered where this thread had got to. If lasguns don't work then the guard would simply acquisition the planetary populace's/arbites autogun weaponary. Or after the forst encounter, the administratum would attempt to supply the regiments facing the borg with auto weaponary.
Even without them being re supplied, a guard regiment has access to shotguns and granade launchers for its vets, heavy bolters, autocannons, mortars and such for its heavy weapons teams and heavy bolters and shells for its tanks. And it's not like the shambling borg drones will be a difficult target.


Throw bodies at it till they go away.

Not to mention all da autocannons, Heavy bolter weaponry, Missile, grenade launcher, mortars, demo charges, and other conventional equipment they would have.

also DA BANEBLADE!

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 Scott-S6 wrote:
And yet another thread is hijacked for Unit to ask for the same advice, receive the same answers and make the same excuses.

Oh my god I'm becoming martel.
Send help!

 
   
Made in gb
Raging Rat Ogre





England, UK

The question, for me, comes down to "can the Borg adapt to non-energy weapons". If they can, the Imperium would need to launch an all-out assault on every Borg vessel and base everywhere in the galaxy at the same time and destroy them before they can adapt. I think an Imperial battlefleet would own a tactical cube, but the cubes possess weapons (only seen in TNG) which can drain a ship's shields and power reserves, so the cubes would probably be able to inflict some damage. Ships in Trek are really designed only to fight other ships from Trek and are considerably under-gunned compared to some other sci-fi.

The Imperium does not adapt or modify technology as this would be classed as heresy. Once the Borg had adapted to lasguns, plasma guns etc, the Imperium would have nothing left.

The Star Trek survival guide (I think) clearly states that once the Borg have adapted, their shield "cannot be overcome by any known force". You couldn't just dial up the yield on a lascannon.

In Enterprise, Lt Reed (or "Tony from Desmond's") drastically increases the power output of a phase pistol, but he does this to be able to actually affect the Borg, as the standard phase pistol was not powerful enough even to stop an unarmoured drone. This doesn't bode well for a lasgun.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/10/05 08:20:10


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Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

Dude. 6 month old thread.

Anyway, Borg can't adapt if they don't survive the first hit. And going by what they go down to in the movies, 40k ships would blow them to pieces left and right, plus ramming happens. Boarding parties enter the Cube and start executing each Borg as they sit in their stations(Borg also have piss poor reaction timing too. Much like Necrons)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/10/05 16:19:03


Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in gb
Raging Rat Ogre





England, UK

The Borg adapt as a Collective, not as individuals. This requires the sacrifice of individuals so that the Collective can learn from their loss or injury.

Every time a weapon is used against a drone or a ship, the Borg gather information about that type of attack eg its energy frequency (called "modulation" in Treknobabble). After several attacks with that same weapon using that same modulation, the Borg have gathered sufficient information to defend against that specific type of attack.

It's clearly seen on TNG, VOY and ENT that the Borg will adapt to weapons even if one or more drones or ships are lost to single shots: Borg drones are nearly always seen to be killed with a single hit.

This also happens in the Elite Force games where Borg drones still adapt even if you vapourise them in one hit.

It is implied in the final ep of Voyager that the Borg will even adapt to Voyager's armour and transphasic torpedoes (the repercussions of this are terrifying, but I get the impression the Collective is effectively destroyed or defeated and will not recover or become a threat again).

If the Borg could not adapt to one-shot kills they would not be able to adapt against any of the weapons we see Starfleet using against them from TNG onwards. Therefore their adaptation capability would be useless against the Federation or similarly advanced forces.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/10/06 10:53:33


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Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

You're assuming Star Trek would have internal consistency when as far from that as could be. I'd say even 40k is more internally consistent.

Anyway, the Borg must observe the attack and be able to gather the data to adapt. if their cubes simply get destroyed with every hit they can't gain all the necessary information. Yes, they adapt as a collective, but they observe as individuals(individual cubes anyway). They don't have continuous data sharing among the collective between ships, only among the crew of individual ships is constant sharing. Outside of that ship the data is shared in dumps as the Borg still use regular communication, which isn't continuous.

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in gb
Raging Rat Ogre





England, UK

They would need to have constant data sharing between vessels. They act as one unified organism, similar to the Tyranids. They are millions of individuals linked by one will in a collective consciousness. The knowledge and experience of each drone is shared by all of them. This is shown repeatedly to be in real-time, particularly in Voyager's Dark Frontier, which spends a lot of time with the Borg Queen.

EDIT: Voyager's transphasic torpedoes and I believe Species 8472 can destroy cubes in one shot. It was implied they can adapt to the torpedoes and they also adapt when drones are killed in one hit from phasers and phaser rifles (as previously stated) which invalidates the "cannot adapt to one shot kills" theory.

The Borg could not adapt to Species 8472 because they could not assimilate them. It's never stated why their ships don't adapt to 8472 firepower. Their ability to adapt is largerly plot-driven rather than consistent and their ships are only shown to adapt to enemy firepower twice: against the Enterprise-D in "Q Who" and against an alien species in Voyager's "Dark Fronter".

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/10/10 09:52:57


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Made in us
Douglas Bader






Sigh. Are we really going to repeat the absurd myth of "borg adapt to everything"? They very clearly don't, as demonstrated when they're killed with knives. The most reasonable explanation for their ability to adapt to incoming fire is the fact that the effectiveness of many Star Trek weapons depends on having the right frequency relative to the frequency of the target's defenses. So the borg have shielding that is too weak to stop equivalent-level weapons by brute force, but once they record enough data to figure out the frequency of the incoming fire and match it the effectiveness of their shielding is vastly improved (the inverse of how you can shoot through a starship's shields if you know the shielding frequency). But this approach would be completely ineffective against weapons that don't depend on frequency technobabble to function (being stabbed with a sword) or that have enough raw power to blow through any possible adaptation. And most, if not all, of the Imperium's weapons fit into at least one of those categories.

Oh, and don't bother with the "they said no weapon at all could get through" argument. No-limits fallacies are a waste of everyone's time, and if you're going to to that argument then the 40k side gets to assume that "the Emperor protects" means that no weapon could possibly hurt a loyal servant of the Emperor and a naked guardsman can stand in front of a whole army of borg without receiving a scratch.

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in gb
Raging Rat Ogre





England, UK

I never said they adapt to everything. They are shown to adapt to energy based weapons and photon torpedoes.

I personally feel that the Borg wouldn't be able to adapt to low technology weapons eg bullets, explosions, stabbing weapons, blunt force trauma. They would be effectively immortal if they could do that; there are only so many types of attack in the galaxy.

EDIT: I'm not sure what your second paragraph even means. When does "the Emperor protects" mantra actually ever stop a bullet or a hostile attack? (Unless you count it as "deny the witch" which has a 16% chance of nullifying a hostile psychic event.)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/10/20 07:59:36


Upcoming work for 2022:
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* 20K: On Eagles' Wings
* 20K: Gods and Daemons
 
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






 NoPoet wrote:
They are shown to adapt to energy based weapons and photon torpedoes.


Which do not function like 40k weapons.

I personally feel that the Borg wouldn't be able to adapt to low technology weapons eg bullets, explosions, stabbing weapons, blunt force trauma. They would be effectively immortal if they could do that; there are only so many types of attack in the galaxy.


IOW, you concede my point: the borg do not have the ability to adapt to any attack and negate any weapon after a few shots, they simply exploit a technobabble gimmick used by certain Star Trek weapons. When a weapon has no frequency to exploit (bullets, knives, etc) their adaptations are useless. Therefore they would likely be of minimal value against 40k weapons for the same reason they can't stop a knife. A lascannon does not depend on frequency technobabble to kill you, it just dumps a ton of energy into your body until you're burned into a pile of ash.

EDIT: I'm not sure what your second paragraph even means. When does "the Emperor protects" mantra actually ever stop a bullet or a hostile attack? (Unless you count it as "deny the witch" which has a 16% chance of nullifying a hostile psychic event.)


The point is that you're using a blatant no limits fallacy. You're taking a statement that the borg can adapt to anything and assuming that it means literally anything, no matter the power level, instead of just "anything we're armed with right now". Obviously assuming that "the Emperor protects" means a guardsman can tank a whole army of borg is stupid, the point is that your argument isn't any better.

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





Buffalo, NY

Didn't Picard kill a bunch of Borg with holographic bullets?

Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia 
   
 
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