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 LordOfSmurfs wrote:

 angelshade00 wrote:

Also, why are the Ogre Heroes still not Individual?

All large infantry heroes have nimble now .

They do? Where does it mention that? I must have missed it. Still can't give him Wings of the Honeymaze and send him war-machine hunting though.
Thanks by the way.

EDIT: OK found it, thanks.

Wait are the twilight kin lists missing for a reason on the beta? My group just started this in 6mm (meaning the LOS changes are a great thing for us) but i'v nearly finished nearly 3K points of dark elves....

 doc1234 wrote:
Wait are the twilight kin lists missing for a reason on the beta? My group just started this in 6mm (meaning the LOS changes are a great thing for us) but i'v nearly finished nearly 3K points of dark elves....

I believe the reason given was that Mantic weren't happy with where the range/army were kit/style/aesthetic-wise (in other words, too Not-Dark-Elf) and plan to revisit them entirely once the Abyssals and Nature armies are done. Make of that what you willl.

All that said, if you are playing in a differnt scale anyway, why not just mix/match the bits you like. If you like the look of KOW2 LoS but want to keep using V1 army lists, then there's no one to stop you!

I do wish that at some point Mantic would release some kind of points-calculating metric, even a rough one. It would do wonders for self-updating lists and for creating House Rules for new units. I'm sure there's a reason why they haven't, but it would be handy.

Probably will. Getting them list access to drakon riders is a nice bonus though. Shame the elf scout cavalry still sucks donkey. Big changes abound, and in fairness if the mantic forum was any idea TK players were a bit thin on the ground.

Also, no musicians and banners. They canceled each other out anyway.

After a very quick read-through, it appears that the Elf list covers pretty much every troop type for all flavors of elf (High, Wood, or Dark). The only thing I see missing is Witch-elves/Wardancers (or the Mantica equivalent thereof).

From the TK Buccaneers became Sea guard (gaining phalanx and an upgrade from thrown weapons to bows), and outside of the heroes lost the Abyssal units from their main list (and can't ally as all elves are Good now). They've also lost the Death Stalker Simulacre (the not- avatar of khaine).

I wonder if you could pick up some monsters from the Forces of Nature list to make up the difference? I know you'd need to pick up a "solid" unit but Sylvan Kin could stand in for Witch-elves, and Centaur for Cold One riders, for example.

That said, having it all in one list would make bookkeeping easier.

The combination of the expanded FoN list and the Salamander concepts really amke me wish I'd held off on completing the pledge manager.

And had more money.

And some spare time.

Who am I kdding, they'd just sit in my 'to paint' pile ;(

Am curious as to whether shooter Regiments are viable now though. Used to be that Troops we're superior given that the only Reg buff was a bit of nerve. +2 attacks now don't seem like much but I am curious how much effect maximizing your dice will have...

 JoshInJapan wrote:
After a very quick read-through, it appears that the Elf list covers pretty much every troop type for all flavors of elf (High, Wood, or Dark). The only thing I see missing is Witch-elves/Wardancers (or the Mantica equivalent thereof).

The 1e TK (Dark Elf) list had not-witch elves in it, and I used their entry for my Wardancers.


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 Paradigm wrote:

 doc1234 wrote:
Wait are the twilight kin lists missing for a reason on the beta? My group just started this in 6mm (meaning the LOS changes are a great thing for us) but i'v nearly finished nearly 3K points of dark elves....

I believe the reason given was that Mantic weren't happy with where the range/army were kit/style/aesthetic-wise (in other words, too Not-Dark-Elf) and plan to revisit them entirely once the Abyssals and Nature armies are done. Make of that what you willl.

I'm sure it's got absolutely nothing to do with the Raging Heroes Dark Elf KS starting a week after the Beta rules and lists dropped.

/cough.

 Azazelx wrote:

 JoshInJapan wrote:
After a very quick read-through, it appears that the Elf list covers pretty much every troop type for all flavors of elf (High, Wood, or Dark). The only thing I see missing is Witch-elves/Wardancers (or the Mantica equivalent thereof).

The 1e TK (Dark Elf) list had not-witch elves in it, and I used their entry for my Wardancers.

Yeah, that was my plan as well. I though the TK list worked better for wood elves than the regular elf list, as it included horse archers as well.

 Azazelx wrote:



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 Paradigm wrote:

 doc1234 wrote:
Wait are the twilight kin lists missing for a reason on the beta? My group just started this in 6mm (meaning the LOS changes are a great thing for us) but i'v nearly finished nearly 3K points of dark elves....

I believe the reason given was that Mantic weren't happy with where the range/army were kit/style/aesthetic-wise (in other words, too Not-Dark-Elf) and plan to revisit them entirely once the Abyssals and Nature armies are done. Make of that what you willl.

I'm sure it's got absolutely nothing to do with the Raging Heroes Dark Elf KS starting a week after the Beta rules and lists dropped.

/cough.

It has absolutely nothing to do with that.

 JoshInJapan wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:

 JoshInJapan wrote:
After a very quick read-through, it appears that the Elf list covers pretty much every troop type for all flavors of elf (High, Wood, or Dark). The only thing I see missing is Witch-elves/Wardancers (or the Mantica equivalent thereof).

The 1e TK (Dark Elf) list had not-witch elves in it, and I used their entry for my Wardancers.

Yeah, that was my plan as well. I though the TK list worked better for wood elves than the regular elf list, as it included horse archers as well.

Well, they did add mounted archers to the basic elf list. And they significantly buffed the tree herder.
(never mind the new heroes)

The mounted archers getting a buff too. They still don't look like a great ranged option, but they can at least do vaguely proper hit and run now the shooting rules +elite have changed.

 Daedleh wrote:

It has absolutely nothing to do with that.

Dunno. The rest of the RC seem to have been taken completely by surprise by their lack of inclusion, and the official explanation seems particularly weak...


edit - fixed broken quote.

 Azazelx wrote:

 Daedleh wrote:

It has absolutely nothing to do with that.

Dunno. The rest of the RC seem to have been taken completely by surprise by their lack of inclusion, and the official explanation seems particularly weak...


edit - fixed broken quote.

We were surprised because we assumed that they would still get a re-pointed version of the list, we'd already combed through it and submitted stat/rules adjustments so we assumed when WiP5 came through to do points costs it was going to be in there.

I was using TK/Goblin alliance to represent a Mordor or "hobgoblin" force. (Theoretically, I haven't played any games!)

So I hope they bring back the Twilight Kin in some sort of recognisable form.

First battle and initial impressions with KoW2
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/2850/445605.page#7700927

Good to hear that the rules work on practice as well. My issues have all been with the lists - the core rules stuff all seems to be an improvement on paper. Hopefully we have the next Beta list within a week. (as has been hinted)

 doc1234 wrote:
Wait are the twilight kin lists missing for a reason on the beta? My group just started this in 6mm (meaning the LOS changes are a great thing for us) but i'v nearly finished nearly 3K points of dark elves....

Just curious: how does it play in 6mm? How do you do distances?

 melkorthetonedeaf wrote:

 doc1234 wrote:
Wait are the twilight kin lists missing for a reason on the beta? My group just started this in 6mm (meaning the LOS changes are a great thing for us) but i'v nearly finished nearly 3K points of dark elves....

Just curious: how does it play in 6mm? How do you do distances?

Distances have just been a straight swap of inches to cm, and we've been using a standard base sizes from Renedra (the 40mmx20mm strips). HQ's and single models all go on 20x20 squares, larger beasties on 40x40. It works fairly well, we've had maybe a half dozen games each in the last few weeks. The CM conversions work fine and we've had no problems with it (even less now considering the LOS changes).

Edit:

One from todays game to give you an idea



It mainly works because the basing standards are applied across the board. Unit footprint changes are less er, devastating when its pretty much kept universal.

So a 40x20 is a troop then or a regiment? Math sez troop.


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It just seems like there are a lot more dudes on the right in red.

OT, I know guys. Just curious. I'm enjoying reading the red ink on this beta pdf.

I'm more a tad dissapointed Dwarves didn't get some heavy badger cavalry with boar spears. But then again it was apparently only me that wanted 'em.

 melkorthetonedeaf wrote:
So a 40x20 is a troop then or a regiment? Math sez troop.


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It just seems like there are a lot more dudes on the right in red.

OT, I know guys. Just curious. I'm enjoying reading the red ink on this beta pdf.

Yep a single stand is a troop. The blokes in red are Baccus 6mm Romans. they're actually a LOT smaller than the Microworld 6mm stuff (the baccus horses are nearly a full third smaller than the elven outriders pictured. They look like shetland ponies in comparison). Seeing as the game goes by the base as a whole, we're mostly just going by what looks "right". The baccus models come in strips of 4, two strips of 4 looked empty on the base, so the player did them 4 strips to a base. Doesn't change how the game plays as it's all the same frontage.

On the other end of the scale the unit in the middle that's not ranked up, and the one on the far left are Microworld Lizardmen (counts as orcs). We're handwaving the alignment constraints on allies due to fluff (like my Dark Elves suddenly being vaguely "good" ). The lizards are nearly twice the size of baccus infantry, so in that case they we're just kinda mobbed on. About 8 per base.

Okay, got ny new profiles printed out. I'll give the new rules a go this weekend. Gonna have to be in 28mm until my wee dudes show up....

Hopefully there'll be an update before the weekend.

Good to see you're back on the committee as well, Daedle.

I think it's just editing and formatting mostly at this point. I still wish they'd give the magic items more generic names. I can never remember which one does what... I guess that's on me though.

I thought the magic item names are fairly characterful and fun

Had an...interesting game today. KoM cannon batteries and a bow horde with the Piercing (1) item, and a LOT of very jammy rolling on his part. Pretty much tabled my elves by turn 4 nearly, and all I really tuck back was a militia horde and a troop of mounted sergeants.. . there's really something to be said about 20 shots even at Ra5+