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Valkyrie, good on you mate.

I think the opening "not a fan "at all"" with italics on the at all came across very condescending. There has to be something about it you liked, if not start with what isn't wrong. People need some kind of encouragement. At the very least it will soften the blow of whats to come.

Instead of saying the tanks have no character maybe just offer the solution "They'd look great with more gubbins or some commanders in view" notice how my sentence says the same exact thing with zero negativity? Things like "the paintjob could have more detail, but maybe that's just my personal preference" even if you don't mean it just to be nice (says the same thing though). Just basicly that, don't point out how bad stuff looks, explain how "great" things could look.

Peregrine, It's up to you mate, but you're missing an opportunity to display to the community your modelling prowess and that's your loss. That would be impressive to people, maybe even open some doors for you.

What is constructive about,..

"And the army in the OP is in the second category IMO. It's a classic example of the "look at me I have an airbrush!" style of painting with lots of dramatic shading in every possible spot but no real character or attempt to refine the airbrush work. It might look impressive to people who don't own an airbrush and can't duplicate the style, but I don't think it's professional-level work at all. I certainly wouldn't pay money for it."

Nothing constructive, just negativity, right?

Good use of colors but, way too much airbrushing.

That being said, I'd be lucky if I could do that.

Sorry to the OP for getting such a bad (not negative) response on here. I don't want to break rule 1 but I do want to give my opinion. I'm not a fan of what I call "obviously airbrushed" paint jobs. Don't get me wrong, they have their moments and their advantages. If I did commission painting I would airbrushing everything for the speed and ease of it, and that's my problem with it. There are definite times to use an airbrush: priming, base coats, shading.

I so often see people paint a low-quality OSL by airbrushing a bright color over something they want to glow. It looks so fake, so careless, so...obviously airbrushed. Or I see people who spray a base with one or two colors to look like a spot light shining on the mini and it's the same feeling. I can't really tell if those examples are something you did here for this army, but I did get that vibe from the paintjob because of the dramatic shadows. It has that same feeling of just airbrushing one spot and calling it a day. That's just my opinion, I'm sorry it's not positive.

The real value of your work isn't what I think about it, it's what the customer thinks. If that person loved it then I know you're good. I wouldn't want a paint style like that so you probably wouldn't give me that if I commissioned you. I think this is all what the other person was trying to say, but ended up being too blunt/mean about it.

I think the main thing about the comment was the assumption that he wanted it to look realistic and not cartoonish. Unless he expressed his intent was that he thought it was realistic. Otherwise I see nothing wrong with the comment.

"reply to Peregrine"

You could just explain "how" to improve rather than "what's wrong" that would actually give him the tools to potentially impress you. What techniques do you have that he needs? New techniques will inspire him, constructive criticism is about inspiring.

Here is a nicer way to say it with some technical solutions to your perceived problems.

"the shading is overdone and missing the refinement that should be done after the initial base coat, the models have no character (squadron markings/commanders/weathering/etc), and the overall style seems more concerned with showing off the fact that the models were painted with an airbrush in a cost-effective amount of time than producing an appealing final result. Those are specific points the you can work on, if you feel like my opinion has any value."

That's a direct quote from you since the initial quote, right? helpful, with solutions, not negative and humble. So proud of you


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The mods aklejobbed me if anyone was wondering.

I am mindful of criticizing other people's work especially if they are more advanced in the art than I.
We each having something to bring on what we know that looks good.
I have a long road to go on the insane amount of airbrushing he has done.

OP: Things to point out to genuinely help:
Background is too similar so vehicles and background do not have much contrast.
Models are too close together, in most cases actually touching, very... busy.
Not a fan of the aircraft windows, too bright gradient maybe? Darker blue perhaps? Very jarring to that "realistic" look.
I was wondering what was bothering me about the weathering: should it not start lighter at the top and darker underneath?
Rain, sun bleaching / weathering.
Looks like the Valcs were stored upside down or left in the back crannies of a space hulk for a few centuries.
A few tanks were in the same boat.
Titans look great, nothing to complain about there.
The tank tread rust/dirt looks great.
The red line on the tank turret was good to see.
A few more markings like that would address the "lack of character" someone complained about.
I am impressed with the consistency myself.
The tanks are largely 3 color so one more would have rounded them out (a more contrasting one.)
That is probably why the titans are awesome, the yellow sensor dish tanks: no complaints, heavy artillery: almost missed seeing them, aircraft just need a bit more.
Maybe find a way to carry through with the white-red-blue-yellow-brown-steel of varying amounts on all of them?

Well executed, zero fault I can find there for actual painting.
If I was the proud owner I would add some squadron markings and it would all be good.

humaneel wrote:
constructive criticism is about inspiring.

No, it really isn't.

The only goal of constructive criticism is to offer valid and well-reasoned opinions, with both positive and negative comments, in a friendly manner rather than an oppositional one. The goal is to simply focus on the work and not the person; no 'inspiration' is required. At no point has anyone (Peregrine, Valkyrie, and others) gone after Kenny on a personal level. You also still seem to be conflating 'constructive' with 'positive' and that is not accurate. Constructive criticism can most definitely be negative because it isn't about heaping praise. Personal talent is in no way required when offering criticism; Roger Ebert never directed a movie, does that make his 46 years of film criticism for the Chicago Sun-Times invalid?

As far as the work in question from the OP is concerned, I will echo some of the other commenters about "the style" of the models. I enjoy color modulation, but for it to look 'right' it has to be done subtly and the extreme shifts in color look cartoony and out of place. The titans look a little less extreme (certainly more than the fliers) but that could be just because they are in the back of the photo and partially obscured. I also agree that the tanks need more detailing, but again it's kind of hard to see since there is no close-up of them. All in all, it's fine work and I'm sure that it will look good on the table and the client is happy, which is all that really matters in the end!

Are we done debating this yet? Take it to PM and comment on the work, that is what this forum is for.

Take it to PM or you could well be taking it off the board

I hope my gallery is good enough to critique the OP.

I was a art professor for 5 years, getting to that point I know how brutal a critique can be for the person being criticized. If you don't have thick skin, you don't belong. You also need to process the critique to get better or you'll be stagnant, which is the worst place an artist can be.

I wish there was more photos than just 1 group photo, some squadron group photos and details would be a huge plus.

From the 1 image being shown: I'm not a fan of easily recognized airbrush army, it looks like the army modification in Dawn of War. Airbrush is a great tool, I just wish it was used as a tool instead of a mean. What I mean by that is there are certain things achieved only with an airbrush, such as hexagon army plates(perhaps on future titan/knight plates) you seen on Tau armies. Using airbrush on fine detail whereas a brush can be of better use is ignoring your other tools.

My personal preference is to see through the clear glass for more detail, but that is not a big deal, the airbrush is a great way to paint the glass as it can achieve the smooth transition of color. The lack of individuality has been mentioned, it can be easily achieved with decals, stowage, commanders, kill marking, nick names, camo. The reason that we like to see individuality is that we as humans pride ourselves on it. Unified yet individualized is your goal here.

It seems to have become fashionable on this forum to be negative about airbrushing [and incidentally the same seems to be true about OSL]. Don't let the forum hipsters get you down Kenny.

Personally I think this work is fantastic. I really like the colour choices and the slightly cartoony finish that you manage to consistently produce. If I wanted a whole army painted up I would come to you to do it.

Last thing I want to say is that these models have been produced by a guy that runs a business. In order to meet demand, finish models on time and be able to offer affordable rates while still make profit he uses an airbrush over a paintbrush [just like any other commission painter]. This is blindingly obvious to me, so I don't really understand why anyone would bother posting to say they don't like airbrushed armies on a commission painter's post.

LOL. This became a battlefield instead of a C & C for the artist. So many of you got offended by critics, even more so than the artist. Chillax people. Let the artist take away whats constructive and whats not. Its the internet where there will always be good and bad comments. Let him be the judge of that.

i'd rather game against these than the dude who rocks up with a plastic grey army

as an example.

I play violin is my school orchestra, not the best player, but I try nonetheless.

I have never done anything in the visual art field so my expedience might not carry over well. But, when my conductor says something like "put more weight on the bow" or "piano, not mezzo piano" thats not the same as (how next level described it) "oh, well, your painting is sh*t", moreso criticism to help me expand as an artist.

about the actual painting, I don't think my issue with the models is lack of character, but moreso the red on the tanks (looks wayyyy to bright and flat), and the stark highlights from the recesses to the open, flat areas (just don't care for that style).

just my humble $0.02, anyways, no hate here, and happy wargaming,

-mikey

Wow, look at all these people ignoring moderator directions. I wonder what happens when they do that!

Hint, they get warnings and/or bans where appropriate, as deemed by the moderator at the time. And I'm going to delete a gak ton of posts. Because you can't obey the rules.

And since I'm not about to lock a thread for an artist who has done nothing wrong, instead people who refuse to follow instructions aren't going to be able to post in it. Anyone else thinking of following suit, keep that in mind. Users whose posts I have deleted, take a voluntary breather from posting in the thread, or I'll have to make it an involuntary one

 Valkyrie wrote:
The tanks have no character or individuality to be seen, not even any tiny extra details like pintle weapons or commanders in the hatch.

That's the best and most realistic part.

These are commissioned work, so there's certain things the person who commissioned them probably asked for in style of painting, possible modeling, as well as color scheme, and level of detail- most likely in relation to cost.

It would be nice if there were more pics

I really like the tanks, especially how you did the weathering on the treads and nearby surrounding area, looks like they were really driving through dirt/muck on a battlefield, everything about them looks well done.

From what I can see the titans both look great, the missile launcher on the reavers carapace is awesome. Really good shadowing. I really love the plasma effects people do these past years, and its great on the warhound. Sometimes for me they extend the 'glowy' effect too far past where it would be, and here you did not do that- love it.

Im personally not a fan of the flyers. The shadowing doesn't match up with the angle of how you did the cockpit glare reflection at all, one is angled the other is top down. I also dislike the heavy weathering on the engines, and where the wings are attached to the hull- it looks especially unrealistic on the avenger or whatever on the front right. The weather is more of a personal reason, Aircraft tend to be more maintained then non aircraft vehicles when in use for combat, if we are adding something realistic like weathering they should have the least amount- with only some on the actual inside/outer part of the end of where the tail cone would be. Even if they were kept in repair there would be a large gradient of weathering with most of it being after the source of heat/combustion not evenly across.

Again that could very well be what the customer wanted, so it doesn't matter because you gotta do what the customer wants

Overall they all look very good.

not that it matters, but I am a pretty mediocre painter, however I successfully ran a small art gallery for many years and apparently my say over whether or not something should be shown, and what should be shown with what and where in the gallery led to profits for the artists as well as the gallery for every show. So perhaps you do not need to be a good artist, to tell when something is good art.

Hey OP!
I would like to see more pictures if possible a little more close-up.
Some may not agree on some of the "look", I figured the presentation hurt things more than the actual work.
Do you make extensive use of hand-held shields, directly mask or freehand?

I have been tempted many times to paint over the clear canopies but I found tinting the inside looks better to me.
Nice site for this stuff: http://www.swannysmodels.com/Canopies.html

The front of the canopies look like they have the right amount of colour gradient, just the top ones would be substantially less if the light source is above as indicated.

I prefer a less cluttered look to tanks as well: being all buttoned up means they are ready for business.

Constructive criticism is extremely helpful to improve your work, but only when it is welcomed and asked for. Kenny did not post these pics to get C&C, just to advertise a video they are making for their channel. I think in a post like this, critiquing his painting is uncalled for, and some might even consider it rude and/or disheartening to the painter. Give C&C when it is asked for, but please refrain from voicing your critiques until it is appropriate. Otherwise, you could be doing a lot more harm than good.

Kenny, keep up the happy painting! I hope to see more of your work in the future. Peace.

TimW wrote:
Constructive criticism is extremely helpful to improve your work, but only when it is welcomed and asked for. Kenny did not post these pics to get C&C, just to advertise a video they are making for their channel. I think in a post like this, critiquing his painting is uncalled for, and some might even consider it rude and/or disheartening to the painter. Give C&C when it is asked for, but please refrain from voicing your critiques until it is appropriate. Otherwise, you could be doing a lot more harm than good.

Kenny, keep up the happy painting! I hope to see more of your work in the future. Peace.

When you post a images in a thread, you ARE asking for criticism, whether you like it or not. If you don't want it, upload your image in the gallery and disable voting.

You're right that is an acceptable way to post pictures when you don't want to hear criticism. But on the other hand, I think there is some level of etiquette we can expect from members of this forum. Other people on this thread have pointed out better ways to give feedback and that speaks to a general acceptance for some code of conduct when giving feedback. It doesn't sound like you're suggesting there shouldn't be some form of code though, but it seems we have different expectations. What would you say is appropriate for giving feedback?

I have been following for awhile and I love all your stuff! Wish you could do single pics and close ups just because your models have so much detail I like to gawk over! But the display is awesome and thanks for sharing!

Also sorry for the drama shouldn't have to deal with that on dakka

TimW wrote:
You're right that is an acceptable way to post pictures when you don't want to hear criticism. But on the other hand, I think there is some level of etiquette we can expect from members of this forum. Other people on this thread have pointed out better ways to give feedback and that speaks to a general acceptance for some code of conduct when giving feedback. It doesn't sound like you're suggesting there shouldn't be some form of code though, but it seems we have different expectations. What would you say is appropriate for giving feedback?

I think all feedback has been appropriate, just some people have interpreted it as personal attacks and seem to be under the idea that airbrushing = unending praise.

Uh, a person posts a big picture of models and has a painting business.

Bring on the acclaim others demand as etiquette?

Unless we comment it is little more than an advertisement.

It initially looked good to me but could have been better.

"Awesome paint job!!!". Seems less helpful than use a more contrasting background and we will see your good work better.

It is the dude's business, he deserves to hear when something does not look right.

 timthehierodule wrote:
Judging by your gallery images I don't think you are in a position to ridicule Next level's work like that.

Bull. People don't have to be expert painters to give CC. Art in the big world is judge by many critics. That's like saying sport writers can't report on sports because they are not pro-athletes. As far as the work of the OP. I agree with many it's IMO over airbrushed and looks rushed. Though single pictures may help alleviate the clutter in the one pic. If he is a commission painter CC is expected. I just feel there is nothing special about the work. Yes it works for many but, it's missing character IMHO.

Yo Kenny, I really dig your tutorials, they are a huge help. Thanks a lot for all the hard work. You and Buypainted probably gave me 50% of my airbrush skills haha.

You have your own extreme style which obviously people like or hate. People should know your brushwork is pretty damn good too. I personally like the marvel-like, high contrast, cartoony, bright coloring. That's how I (aim to) paint as well. Keep it up!

One comment: I feel like the photos and videos are all edited with a high contrast filter. Sometimes this feels like it is distorting the purpose. While it does make things look better, I'd preffer the unfiltered view which is true to the real colors. I might be wrong though.

Cheers!

Based on Klaus's comments I will take a look.

I tend to paint my Black Templar as toys... er.. um, "models" by Hasbro. Dirt is not an option at this time other than on the base.

Awesome work. Makes me think of a graphic novel, which is how I see 40k in general. Keep up the good work!

I really like them, but I have one problem and it's only with the photography.

With such a large force to present and some of them being pretty rare/seldom seen models, you may have had better reception if they were spaced out and perhaps in some sort of parade formation.

I can definitely tell they're high quality paintjobs and everything, but as they're presented it's just one large mass of gray, white, brown and red, and what makes it even harder on the eyes is that the entire force blends in with the background!

Excellent work anyway, I wish my airbrush skills were decent. It takes me forever to do even the smallest projects. :(

Not even 1/3 the models we are pulling out for this game easily a 18k game