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Sadly, this is why scale is actually important and manufacturers playing fast and loose with scale height is not a good thing.

The picture shows a popular misconception of scale. For one thing, scale is always a ratio. At 1/72, for example, a six foot tall man is roughly one inch or 25mm tall to the top of the head. But the push for bigger figs knocks the measurement to eye-level and height gets used interchangeably with scale. So you get a lot of inconsistency. And scale creep.

Interestingly 35mm to eye at 1/50 scale would be under 6 ft tall, so smaller than I would guess for a beefy barbarian.

For aesthetic purposes, it may be desirable to deviate form a strictly accurate scale, but that should be noted. Likewise, as pointed out, comparison pictures are extremely useful, even if it is just against a ruler.

Being rude to customers, especially civil displeased ones, is always a bad idea.

 jmurph wrote:
Sadly, this is why scale is actually important and manufacturers playing fast and loose with scale height is not a good thing.

I'd say that at this point; manufacturers have already played so fast and loose with scale that numbers barely mean anything anymore.

Without a comparasion picture, it's pure guesswork what kind of 28mm, 1/35, 1/50 etc. scale any particular manufacturer is using.

Interestingly 35mm to eye would be under 6 ft tall, so smaller than I would guess for a beefy barbarian.

I think you're right, and it's compounding the issue. As I mentioned, I've grown up in a horse riding household, and my 6'2" father on his 16.3hh horse, unfortunately now retired and horse free, so I can't make him mount up and check for a precise measurement, would tower over me (and I'm 6'5".)

For our hero on his mighty steed to roughly equate to not even 8' (using Kabuki's measurements and scale statements) suggests that rather than a scale problem, there's a more fundamental issue (either of expectation or interpretation) as to the size that the Deathdealer should be.

I am 6'2 and have been on a horse or two in my time, If I was not at least 8.5-9ft off the ground on a mid/large horse (nowhere near a war horse) I would be quite shocked. Anyways, it's a bit of a moot point as the models are done, again, they look to be nice sculpts, on target for what was shown. All we are saying really is the expectation issue could have been avoided by Kabuki for their own benefit, instead, they seem to think saying their audience is somehow stupid for saying their mini is small, while sitting tiny next to a variety of 32mm minis from other lines lol. Ah well. Again, regret supporting them at this point, the work seems nice enough, but I am sad that my purchase supports this poor customer service attitude.

Kabuki Studio wrote:
i'm sorry that you are disappointed about your Death Dealer 1/50 but surely it's a 35mm model, please take a look at the screen capture from the 3d master file and see it by your self.

If the miniature is smaller than similiar models from other companies i don't understand why that means it's not a 35mm figure.
Games Workshop is popular for manufacture oversized and mis-proportioned models (just because they WANT them like that and not because they're not able of course)

we are not inaccurate when sculpting a model.

Am I seeing things, or are the proportions of the horse and rider just... off?

It strikes me that what is happening is that the model is perhaps a too faithful rendition of the original artwork. What I mean is that the original artwork is more evocative than accurate.

By way of comparison, there is a 'life size' Death Dealer statute at Fort Hood (picture taken from Reaper forums here);


I notice that the Fort Hood version actually has some noticeable differences, regarding the horse the anatomy of the legs is subtly different, being both thinner and longer. The rider too is changed; his feet in the stirrups hang below the chest of the horse in the painting, but at level in the bronze [Edit, reversed these two].

The render above matches the painting very closely, and deviates from the bronze. Which, I think, is the problem: purely translating a 2D image into a 3D model does not neccassarily preserve the art. A good example is Michelangelo's David, where the proportions are subtly off in order to compensate for the angle and distance the viewer would be at.

It strikes me that the render presented above actually rather undermines the argument that the scale is 'correct'. Does 35mm scale mean that the figure is 35mm to the eyes, or that an average man is 35mm to the eyes? If the latter (which was my impression), Death Dealer should be (I presume) substantially taller than the average person.

I'm also only eyeballing it, but how many heads tall do folks recon that model at? What I mean is this (I believe this image is from a work by Andrew Loomis);


Just with my finger, it seems to me that the digital model is around 8 heads high, falling in the 'idealistic' proportion. I would have thought him rather... beefier.

I knew that bronze existed, but not seen a picture of it. That's awesome!

Yeah that is awesome never seen that before either... thanks Buzzsaw and very appropriate points to make on it as well -

Cheers!

I backed this.

I was also aware Kabuki Studios makes busts, large-scale figures, etc. and a 1/24 and a 1/50 scale model from Kabuki, as evidenced by the proportions of the model shown on the Kickstarter, would not be heroic "melon head and hamfist" scale, etc, and that I would be getting an actual scale model kit. The kit itself is properly proportioned, incredibly detailed, and seems to be the correct size...

but I also was not comparing it to GW's terrible horses, which are like slightly smaller than 1/35 ponies.

I also remember controversy when Red Box Games released 28mm wolves, and they were tiny, because people were expecting GW-sized mega-wargs and not actual sized wolves, which were tiny in comparison.

 judgedoug wrote:
I backed this.

I was also aware Kabuki Studios makes busts, large-scale figures, etc. and a 1/24 and a 1/50 scale model from Kabuki, as evidenced by the proportions of the model shown on the Kickstarter, would not be heroic "melon head and hamfist" scale, etc, and that I would be getting an actual scale model kit. The kit itself is properly proportioned, incredibly detailed, and seems to be the correct size...

but I also was not comparing it to GW's terrible horses, which are like slightly smaller than 1/35 ponies.

I also remember controversy when Red Box Games released 28mm wolves, and they were tiny, because people were expecting GW-sized mega-wargs and not actual sized wolves, which were tiny in comparison.

I don't think people are complaining about the proportions. It's rather about how Kabuki could have been clearer about the size.

While there's no direct comparasion pic, it looks like the death-dealer is smaller than a 28mm historical model from the likes of Perrys, Warlord etc. I don't think anyone expected it necessarily be larger than 28mm GW monstrosities, but I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a 35mm model to scale with 'heroic', or at least non-heroic 28mm figures?

 Zywus wrote:

I don't think people are complaining about the proportions. It's rather about how Kabuki could have been clearer about the size.

While there's no direct comparasion pic, it looks like the death-dealer is smaller than a 28mm historical model from the likes of Perrys, Warlord etc. I don't think anyone expected it necessarily be larger than 28mm GW monstrosities, but I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a 35mm model to scale with 'heroic', or at least non-heroic 28mm figures?

Well that's just false, a good portion of the above thread is dedicated to bitching about how it wasn't heroic scale. Choice examples include "there is 35mm, and then there is the 35mm accepted as industry standard. Now you can argue here that there is no 'true' industry standard or whatnot but I think you know that generally people accept the heroic scale to represent more people's size expectations than art scale. " and " you did not specify art scale or heroic, so instead you left a lot of your customers completely to their own devices as to setting their expectations, which is going to hurt both them and you" and "For aesthetic purposes, it may be desirable to deviate from a strictly accurate scale"

Those are all arguments about how the accurately proportioned 1/50 scale model was somehow misrepresented - despite being sold as a 1/50 scale kit from a manufacturer of scale figures - or should have been made as, an "industry standard" - or, more perversely, some concept of "people's size expectations". Thankfully for the rest of the world, an "industry standard" scale model kit is NOT a misproportioned 28-38mm wargaming miniature. What I gather from these arguments is that Kabuki is somehow in the wrong for advertising, designing, and manufacturing an accurately proportioned scale model kit instead of a melonhead hamfist heroic scale model to match the product producted by other companies who have a terrible misconceptions about anatomy. The argument that they somehow misrepresented the proportions holds no merit, as the figure on the kickstarter page is accurately proportioned. Hopefully Kabuki ignores this all and continues to make beautiful scale model kits, along with the likes of Pegaso and Verlinden and so on.

 judgedoug wrote:

 Zywus wrote:

I don't think people are complaining about the proportions. It's rather about how Kabuki could have been clearer about the size.

While there's no direct comparasion pic, it looks like the death-dealer is smaller than a 28mm historical model from the likes of Perrys, Warlord etc. I don't think anyone expected it necessarily be larger than 28mm GW monstrosities, but I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a 35mm model to scale with 'heroic', or at least non-heroic 28mm figures?

Well that's just false, a good portion of the above thread is dedicated to bitching about how it wasn't heroic scale. Choice examples include "there is 35mm, and then there is the 35mm accepted as industry standard.

Not false at all. I can't see anyone saying that the death dealer should have had "heroic proportion" or melonheads etc... That quote you reference, taken in context isn't complaining about the proportions. It's about how Kabuki should have been clearer about the size of their model since just saying "35mm" is bound to create misunderstandings.

 judgedoug wrote:
...

Those are all arguments about how the accurately proportioned 1/50 scale model was somehow misrepresented - despite being sold as a 1/50 scale kit from a manufacturer of scale figures - or should have been made as, an "industry standard" - or, more perversely, some concept of "people's size expectations". Thankfully for the rest of the world, an "industry standard" scale model kit is NOT a misproportioned 28-38mm wargaming miniature. What I gather from these arguments is that Kabuki is somehow in the wrong for advertising, designing, and manufacturing an accurately proportioned scale model kit instead of a melonhead hamfist heroic scale model to match the product producted by other companies who have a terrible misconceptions about anatomy. The argument that they somehow misrepresented the proportions holds no merit, as the figure on the kickstarter page is accurately proportioned. Hopefully Kabuki ignores this all and continues to make beautiful scale model kits, along with the likes of Pegaso and Verlinden and so on.

Not to be quarrelsome, but this almost totemic iteration of "accurately proportioned" seems rather misplaced. The simplest way of demonstrating this would seem (IMO) to go back to the model presented by Kabuki;



The simple question: how tall is Death Dealer? I don't mean the model, I mean the man. Looking at the other art of the same character (in my post above), Death Dealer looks like a giant brute of a man, at least with the physique of Arnold Schwartzenegger (6'2") or perhaps Lou Ferigno (6'4"). Compare these real world examples with the fantasy of the Death Dealer;



To be more clear, consider this picture of Arnold and Franco Columbo (5'4");


If we are to speak of "accurately proportioned", my impression has never been that a 35mm scale model is such that every model is set at 35mm to the eyeline. My impression has always been that an average man is set to 35mm to the eyeline.

If that is the case, then Death Dealer is either intended to be only an average man or... well, it's scaled wrong. Is Death Dealer the height of Arnold, Lou or Franco? Shouldn't the 35mm line not rest at the eyeline of the digital model but the mouth, chin or even neck? He's not an average cavalryman, after all, he's the Death Dealer.

 Zywus wrote:
Not false at all. I can't see anyone saying that the death dealer should have had "heroic proportion" or melonheads etc... That quote you reference, taken in context isn't complaining about the proportions. It's about how Kabuki should have been clearer about the size of their model since just saying "35mm" is bound to create misunderstandings

Firstly, the Kickstarter is for a 1/24 scale model. A stretch goal was added to produce a 1/50 scale version. The overwhelming majority of signage on the KS page references scales, but there are several references to the 1/50 being 35mm, so sure, we'll use that as gospel, but it is highly apparent that Kabuki is making a scale model.

To once again quote MajorTom11, "I understand your point, however, there is 35mm, and then there is the 35mm accepted as industry standard. Now you can argue here that there is no 'true' industry standard or whatnot but I think you know that generally people accept the heroic scale to represent more people's size expectations than art scale. "

I think it is THAT expectation that is wrong. "there is 35mm, and then there is the 35mm accepted as industry standard" is a joke. Choosing to ignore the pictures of the model on the Kickstarter campaign and instead expected to receive something totally different? Did Kabuki advertise their scale models as some vaguely worded definition of "industry standard scale"? Uhh, NO.

"So, while strictly speaking you may be correct on the exact spec measurements with a caliper, "

Yes, it is a scale model. a 1/50 scale model, 35mm to the eye. 1/50 is 1 centimeter = 0.5 meters. So 3.5 centimeters to the eye is 1.75 meters, or about 69 inches, or about 5' 9" to the eye. Eye height is typically 93% of total height of a human. End result: 1/50 scale man with an eye height of 35mm means he is roughly 74 inches tall - or 6 feet, 2 inches tall.

Perhaps Kabuki's first mistake was not using a 7 foot man as a basis for the model? That doesn't affect me, 6'2 seems plenty tall when the average height of a man is like, what, 5'10"?

(On top of that, the Death Dealer is hunched over on a relatively small horse, and not riding a massive GW monster with arms flailing and mouth agape.)

"but you have a marketing failure on your hands here in that you did not specify art scale or heroic, so instead you left a lot of your customers completely to their own devices as to setting their expectations, which is going to hurt both them and you. "

The Kickstarter page clearly shows that it is a scale model and not a heroic wargaming miniature.

Perhaps this is a case of Kabuki unable to please everyone? If they had made a "heroic" miniature, it would have been not scaled properly, and then the customers who expected to receive a scale model would be upset. I would be very upset if I ordered a 1/50 scale model and received something odd like 1/44.6 scale - especially considering the other poster in this thread who said "For aesthetic purposes, it may be desirable to deviate from a strictly accurate scale". Yikes, that's terrible. If I'm buying a 1/32 Pegaso model or jeez a 1/35 Tamiya vehicle, I would hope that the kit is scaled as marketed!

Methinks the source of the problem is that most "28mm wargames" are still called 28mm, despite the fact that most are much much larger, many running over 40mm tall. Even historicals, such as Perry's plasics, can be 32mm to the eye. About the only remaining 28mm models on the market are Foundry. Even LOTR which started as truescale 28mm has grown to be well over 32mm on some models. Black Scorpion has been making models 36mm and taller, and Hasslefree has hit a few that are 40mm!

The cherry on top is that the most vocal critic of Kabuki Studios is MajorTom11, who - is this accurate? - is apparently currently running a Kickstarter for his own Death Dealer model. Real shady there, guy.


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 Buzzsaw wrote:
If we are to speak of "accurately proportioned", my impression has never been that a 35mm scale model is such that every model is set at 35mm to the eyeline. My impression has always been that an average man is set to 35mm to the eyeline.

If that is the case, then Death Dealer is either intended to be only an average man or... well, it's scaled wrong. Is Death Dealer the height of Arnold, Lou or Franco? Shouldn't the 35mm line not rest at the eyeline of the digital model but the mouth, chin or even neck? He's not an average cavalryman, after all, he's the Death Dealer.

See above. The scale is 1/50, which makes a model that is 35mm to the eye, about 6 feet 2 inches tall.

 judgedoug wrote:

The cherry on top is that the most vocal critic of Kabuki Studios is MajorTom11, who - is this accurate? - is apparently currently running a Kickstarter for his own Death Dealer model. Real shady there, guy.

Got a link for this?

I can't seem to find it.

I'm a bit concerned, because accusing someone of shady behavior when they're not is the real version of real shady.

 Alpharius wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:

The cherry on top is that the most vocal critic of Kabuki Studios is MajorTom11, who - is this accurate? - is apparently currently running a Kickstarter for his own Death Dealer model. Real shady there, guy.

Got a link for this?

I can't seem to find it.

I'm a bit concerned, because accusing someone of shady behavior when they're not is the real version of real shady.

There's this one by Killbox Games, which frankly look far more in scale. It's on an easily recognisable 50mm base there.

@JudgeDoug LOL
Cool story bro!



I am totally running my own Death Dealer Kickstarter, and I backed this one for 400 bucks just to stick it to Kabuki! I also waited until someone else commented on a model at a scale I didn't even purchase in order to strike, biding my time as my plan came to fruition. You've got me. Busted. Shady as heck I am now everyone knows... oh noes.

Or, I just thought Kabuki did themselves a disservice by responding to a customer in the fashion they did. Y'know whatever. No such thing as climate change.

 Alpharius wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:

The cherry on top is that the most vocal critic of Kabuki Studios is MajorTom11, who - is this accurate? - is apparently currently running a Kickstarter for his own Death Dealer model. Real shady there, guy.

Got a link for this?

I can't seem to find it.

I'm a bit concerned, because accusing someone of shady behavior when they're not is the real version of real shady.

There is another KS for an apparently licenced Death Dealer mini live at the moment https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/killboxgames/frazetta-miniatures

It's run by Killbox Games and is on the Canadian KS platform

but I've no idea who are the people behind it

Maybe the 'Canadian Connection' confused doug?

@Orlando - Not me... Canada is big country, nothing to do with it didn't even know about it. I prefer the Kabuki sculpt for the record.

I think if Dougie decided I was involved in a conspiracy to bring down Kabuki's KS (AFTER it was completed and I pledged a large amount lol) because I am running a competing KS with the exact same subject (which I think makes no sense for the people doing it) simply because I live in Canada, he needs to go to his room and think about what he's done. Seriously that is some outlandish gak even for the internet, what a loon.

Ah! But there's a man involved with the company behind the current KS called Tom!

That's fait accompli surely? There can't be another Canadian called Tom!

(I had to poke around to find this though, it wasn't something one could easily trip over without going looking, and I'm not sure what would prompt me to go looking...)

Here's a Kabuki 35mm on a 50mm base.


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Here's Killbox's






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I'm afraid I can't do that fancy thing where the base sizes are matched, as I'm in a tablet (and a Luddite when it comes to that sort of thing anyways) but those are both 50mm bases, and both 35mm sculpts based on the same image.

Hence the disappointment when Frodo Baggins on Bill turned up.

It's not small you are looking at it wrong.

Shrug, it was posted in the Death Dealer KS comments. Please note that I said "is this accurate?" not "THIS IS ACCURATE!" But reading comprehension must not be someone's strong suit if they are confused by the scale on a Kickstarter for a scale model kit

Though the competing Kickstarter from Killbox's model sure is ugly as hell. Their sculpt looks terrible. I guess Gary Morley is getting work these days...

But, hey, congratulations on avoiding the topic at hand, MajorTom11.

Can you help me with my math? I'll repost what I said here so we can get back on track with the discussion:

To once again quote MajorTom11, "I understand your point, however, there is 35mm, and then there is the 35mm accepted as industry standard. Now you can argue here that there is no 'true' industry standard or whatnot but I think you know that generally people accept the heroic scale to represent more people's size expectations than art scale. "

I think it is THAT expectation that is wrong. "there is 35mm, and then there is the 35mm accepted as industry standard" is a joke. Choosing to ignore the pictures of the model on the Kickstarter campaign and instead expected to receive something totally different? Did Kabuki advertise their scale models as some vaguely worded definition of "industry standard scale"? Uhh, NO.

"So, while strictly speaking you may be correct on the exact spec measurements with a caliper, "

Yes, it is a scale model. a 1/50 scale model, 35mm to the eye. 1/50 is 1 centimeter = 0.5 meters. So 3.5 centimeters to the eye is 1.75 meters, or about 69 inches, or about 5' 9" to the eye. Eye height is typically 93% of total height of a human. End result: 1/50 scale man with an eye height of 35mm means he is roughly 74 inches tall - or 6 feet, 2 inches tall.

Perhaps Kabuki's first mistake was not using a 7 foot man as a basis for the model? That doesn't affect me, 6'2 seems plenty tall when the average height of a man is like, what, 5'10"?

(On top of that, the Death Dealer is hunched over on a relatively small horse, and not riding a massive GW monster with arms flailing and mouth agape.)

"but you have a marketing failure on your hands here in that you did not specify art scale or heroic, so instead you left a lot of your customers completely to their own devices as to setting their expectations, which is going to hurt both them and you. "

The Kickstarter page clearly shows that it is a scale model and not a heroic wargaming miniature.

@Azreal13

Do you have access to a mounted 28mm historical model from the likes of Perrys, Fireforge, Gripping Beast, Conquest games etc.to take a comparasion pic?

I must admit, I find myself rather more confused after judgedoug's comments than I was before.

 judgedoug wrote:

Spoiler:

"So, while strictly speaking you may be correct on the exact spec measurements with a caliper, "

Yes, it is a scale model. a 1/50 scale model, 35mm to the eye. 1/50 is 1 centimeter = 0.5 meters. So 3.5 centimeters to the eye is 1.75 meters, or about 69 inches, or about 5' 9" to the eye. Eye height is typically 93% of total height of a human. End result: 1/50 scale man with an eye height of 35mm means he is roughly 74 inches tall - or 6 feet, 2 inches tall.

Perhaps Kabuki's first mistake was not using a 7 foot man as a basis for the model? That doesn't affect me, 6'2 seems plenty tall when the average height of a man is like, what, 5'10"?

So I tried to find a good source for jd's assertions here, and came up with a fairly good looking chart originally linked on the Reaper forums;


According to this figure, a 5'9" man is 35 mm to the eyes in 1/47 scale, and 35 mm to the crown in 1/50 scale. Since Kabuki explicitly refers to "Death Dealer I in 1/50 (35mm) scale" this would set him as fairly tall... but more on the implications in a moment.

 judgedoug wrote:
(On top of that, the Death Dealer is hunched over on a relatively small horse, and not riding a massive GW monster with arms flailing and mouth agape.)

This comment illustrates the crux of my problem: we have here the translation of a fantasy artwork into sculpture. The original piece of art contains almost no indications as to the relative size of the rider or horse. Now, my knowledge of the Death Dealer is quite limited (I was aware of the artwork and the bronze outside of Fort Hood), but it was my impression that the Death Dealer is not intended to be a man of modest endowment riding a pony.

Again, from the internet, the following image that purports to list the heights of horse breeds;


Here I throw myself on the charity of those that can measure accurately on their screens, but as I rough it on my screen, the horse in Kabuki's image seems to be about 12 hands high... which genuinely makes it a pony.

This, to me, is the great failure: if the argument was about a miniature of, say, Erwin Rommel, one might argue about the exact height. But is the Death Dealer meant to be a towering brute of a man, a pillar of muscle and violence astride his destrier (enough to earn the sobriet "Death Dealer"), or a relatively weedy man on a pony?

 MajorTom11 wrote:
@Orlando - Not me... Canada is big country, nothing to do with it didn't even know about it. I prefer the Kabuki sculpt for the record.

I think if Dougie decided I was involved in a conspiracy to bring down Kabuki's KS (AFTER it was completed and I pledged a large amount lol) because I am running a competing KS with the exact same subject (which I think makes no sense for the people doing it) simply because I live in Canada, he needs to go to his room and think about what he's done. Seriously that is some outlandish gak even for the internet, what a loon.

By the by, I'm not sure what this says about the conduct or competance of Kabuki, but this allegation is directly from Kabuki's comments on the KS page;

but you have to understand a very important thing that "MajorTom11" is a direct competitor of Kabuki Studio yeah he's owner of Killbox Games a Canadian company who wanted to manufacture a range of miniatures derived from Frazetta artwork, needless to say that the comparison between those models and ours is....well see by yourself if you want and i don't think their KS campaign is going so well so that guy wanted to vent his frustration on Kabuki Studio.
Indeed what he wrote makes little sense if not tease me and then claim to be offended.
When you're not able to compete in a fair way better to bad advertise

Edit: fixed reference for Kabuki quote.

Wow... ok that is effing ridiculous. These people are absolutely insane! WOW!!!

Kabuki themselves said I was a competitor making my own DeathDealer KS???? Ok, JudgeDoug you are just a sheep so I forgive you, but Kabuki, what a pack of paranoid Scumbags. I am filing a complaint and I want a refund of my KS.

All this because I AGREED WITH SOMEONE ELSE that the mini looks small for the stated scale, and then told them they could respond to THAT customer better by showing interest in their concern if not acceptance, rather than attacking them for saying it is small when it is plainly small. ugh.

I considered backing this KS but decided to wait, so I've been reading this thread with interest.

The main thing that strikes me is how unprofessional Kabuki are (I'm going to ignore Doug's contribution ).

I will not consider any purchases from them until they apologise publicly to MajorTom.

 Zywus wrote:
@Azreal13

Do you have access to a mounted 28mm historical model from the likes of Perrys, Fireforge, Gripping Beast, Conquest games etc.to take a comparasion pic?

Sadly, no, I'd have definitely used one if I had. My collection leans more to the Sci Fi and is mostly from systems one would consider 32mm, other than the Brets I've got lying around, most of the cavalry I've go to to hand is Mierce, which, while generally better proportioned than GW, is still firmly towards 32mm, and I've already posted a pic against one of those.

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:
I considered backing this KS but decided to wait, so I've been reading this thread with interest.

The main thing that strikes me is how unprofessional Kabuki are (I'm going to ignore Doug's contribution ).

I will not consider any purchases from them until they apologise publicly to MajorTom.

Thank you... they effed up with that BS. Now I'm pissed, that is so far past unprofessional it beggars belief. Giving them til the end of the day before I spam every effing forum and FB page I am a member of with screencaps of this utter paranoid garbage.

 MajorTom11 wrote:

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:
I considered backing this KS but decided to wait, so I've been reading this thread with interest.

The main thing that strikes me is how unprofessional Kabuki are (I'm going to ignore Doug's contribution ).

I will not consider any purchases from them until they apologise publicly to MajorTom.

Thank you... they effed up with that BS. Now I'm pissed, that is so far past unprofessional it beggars belief. Giving them til the end of the day before I spam every effing forum and FB page I am a member of with screencaps of this utter paranoid garbage.

But then you'll upset Doug even more, shaaaaaame! Shaaaaaame!