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Made in de
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Hamburg

Tier units/models: Tier may change if equipped differently.

Top tier:
- Wraiths
- Warriors
- Tomb Blades
- Destroyers

Mid tier:
- Destroyer Lord
- Overlord
- Flayed Ones
- Immortals
- Praetorians
- Night Scythe
- Ghostark

Bottom tier:
- Deathmarks
- Lynchguard
- C'tans
- all other vehicles

Former moderator 40kOnline

Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
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 wuestenfux wrote:
Tier units/models: Tier may change if equipped differently.

Top tier:
- Wraiths
- Warriors
- Tomb Blades
- Destroyers

Mid tier:
- Destroyer Lord
- Overlord
- Flayed Ones
- Immortals
- Praetorians
- Night Scythe
- Ghostark

Bottom tier:
- Deathmarks
- Lynchguard
- C'tans
- all other vehicles


How are warriors top tier and Deathmarks and Lychguard are bottom tier? Every list that has ever done well in competitive play either included Lychguard or Deathmarks. Also, how do you have Ghost Arks in the same level as Night Scythes? I really don't get how Immortals are also mid tier, they're probably one of the worst units in the codex, all they do is be a tax for RL. It's good to have personal opinions (like how I like the Monolith too much), but spreading such tiers without taking any of the successful lists into account is kind of an overstatement.

I'd say top tier is: Deathmarks, Lychguard, Wraiths, Destroyers, Tomb Blades, Destroyer Lords

Mid tier is: Prets, Flayed Ones, Ghost Arks, Overlords, Zahndrekh, Orikan

Bot tier is: Vehicles, C'tans, Warriors, Immortals, Scarabs, Spyders, most named HQs, Crypteks

But, then it's not very indicative, because of what difference it makes when you field those models in formations. For example, Destroyers outside the Destroyer Cult are quite bad. Triarch Stalkers can't be judged alone because they are part of a good formation.

 skoffs wrote:
Okay, I want to hear honest opinions:
Can the Obelisk be competitive now, with the fixes to its guns?
If so, what are its uses?


I do believe so. Problem still being that it's too vulnerable for its point cost, but it has the potential. The Living Tomb formation (hey what can I say, I'm a monolith fan) looks very good. Here is LVO's relevant list: http://bloodofkittens.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Jon-Camacho-7th-Overall-LVO-2016.pdf

I guess 16 Deathmarks, all of the str7 shots from the Obelisk and the Prets were quite a lot of shooting for Eldar and TAU MC's and GC's. This list looks like a good answer to MC/GC spam which is probably what you are going to face in GT environment.

Also, the Obelisk should be pretty good at killing all the armor in Battle Companies. It's pretty effective at killing rhinos.

I really don't know if it would be effective in other lists besides the Pret/Deathmarks combo. That's up for testing and I don't own one Obelisk (although, I'd love to have one, it looks great). Personally, I feel like maybe you could save some points here and there and play it together with a Destroyer Cult.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/01/22 09:26:53


"After Aeons of slumber the Necrotyr awakend to harvest the galaxy anew... but realizing they will never be Ultramarines, the Necrotyr descended into stasis once more."  
   
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You're free to post your own personal ranking of the codex as well.
(I'm trying to work my own up atm)

 
   
Made in gb
Freaky Flayed One




 skoffs wrote:
Okay, I want to hear honest opinions:
Can the Obelisk be competitive now, with the fixes to its guns?
If so, what are its uses?


Outside of Living Tomb:

Lack of Twin Linked on its Tesla Spheres results in fewer hits on models than Annihilation Barges / Night Scythes per sphere.

With this change allowing up to three focused spheres per target, that evaluation changes, but not perfectly. Recall that these are AP- hits, allowing in many instances for units to shrug off 1/2 to 2/3 of the wounds. Moreover, this has not necessarily increased its shooting, merely allowed focusing it on the preferred target.

In contrast, and for similar point value (300) you can bring alternative fire support units from our Codex with various AP suitable to the task.


Enabling the Living Tomb:

The Tomb formation is a fun, versatile formation that allows several fun trick plays. Although fielded in a recent tournament, I don't expect this formation to be incredibly Competitive in that context. 700 points is quite a bit of investment at 1850. The combos, however, are very entertaining!


Overall:

Cool looking model with a high point cost with shooting that will frequently be most effective against low armour/cover targets--making it rarely able to recoup its point cost directly.
   
Made in no
Tail-spinning Tomb Blade Pilot





There was already a list apparently doing well with the Living tomb formation that seemed ok, here: https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2016/04/05/40k-list-tech-crons-and-controversy/

I guess its challenge is that 300 points spent on infantry with RP will be much more resilient. Against something with alpha-striking melta, or fast moving armorbane close combat units its likely to die fast.

Depending on who you play against, its ability to thunderblitz and control traffic have some value too. Especially against hordes that cannot easily hurt its AV14. Blocking off sections of the board, physically, to control where the hordes flow through, allowed me to control which of my units gets to locked down. I can now help direct enemies towards my lychguard instead of running them around, trying to catch up. or warriors or immortals, allowing me to keep my faster wraiths, scarabs or praetorians to remain free to self decide where they go.

This has worked extremely well for me in friendly less competitive settings, but its worthwhile to keep in mind.

Putting the obelisk in a central position, if its safe enough, allows its tesla spheres to add supporting fire where needed, and 5 or 10 tesla S7 shots will be a serious threat to most enemy units, ie help rapidfire warriors finish off a terminator or 2, last 1-2 wounds on an MC or last 1-2 HP on a vehicle.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
sieGermans wrote:

[...]With this change allowing up to three focused spheres per target, that evaluation changes[...]


surely 180 degrees would allow only 2 spheres maximum per target?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/01/22 10:05:44


Shiny 40k 8th tool with colors: dice-hammer.com 
   
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So as it stands, looks like the best Tesla we have at our disposal would be Judicator Night Scythes.
On the plus side, everything in that formation is pretty decent!
On the downside, it's already pretty expensive, so adding NSs into the mix is going to jack the cost up considerably.

Still surprised the Obelisk, what is supposed to be an anti-air weapon, does not have an option for Skyfire.

 
   
Made in no
Tail-spinning Tomb Blade Pilot





Well the NS suffers (and benefits) from being a flier, with guns pointing in only one direction and a somewhat forced route to fly, the obelisk has the advantage of having one sphere pointing to each corner of the board at all times.

depending on what you are up against, one will be better than the other

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It only makes sense to rank individual units into tiers if you are running a CAD.

If you are running a Decurion, then you should be ranking formations instead of units in terms of top-tier, mid-tier, and bottom-tier. The Reclamation Legion itself does not need to be ranked since its a tax. However any add-ons to the min Reclamation Legion should be ranked.

Top tier
Harvest
D. Cult
Additional Tomb Blades to the Reclamation Legion

Mid-tier
Royal Court
Judicator Battalion
Deathmarks

Bottom/Mid-tier
Flayed Ones
Conclave of the Burning One (weak since FAQ)
Retribution Phalanx (weak since FAQ)
Living Tomb
Additional Warriors or Immortals to the Reclamation Legion
Ghost Arks added to Warriors
NS added to Reclamation Legion or Judicator

Bottom tier
Annihilation Nexus
Deathbringer Flight


   
Made in gb
Freaky Flayed One




torblind wrote:
sieGermans wrote:

[...]With this change allowing up to three focused spheres per target, that evaluation changes[...]


surely 180 degrees would allow only 2 spheres maximum per target?


Depend s on the length of the target unit. With a corner pointed directly at a unit's center, if the unit has been spread out more than 8 inches, strict geometry allows for 3 spheres.

Realistic examples mostly only include:
At 1 inch coherency with 1 inch bases (e.g., marines), that would be 5 models in a line.
A facing IK
A perpendicular Landraider

I expect the usual scenario to only comprise 2 spheres hitting a single unit, but the strict maximum is 3 in a non-rare number of circumstances.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
col_impact wrote:
It only makes sense to rank individual units into tiers if you are running a CAD.

If you are running a Decurion, then you should be ranking formations instead of units in terms of top-tier, mid-tier, and bottom-tier. The Reclamation Legion itself does not need to be ranked since its a tax. However any add-ons to the min Reclamation Legion should be ranked.

Top tier
Harvest
D. Cult
Additional Tomb Blades to the Reclamation Legion

Mid-tier
Royal Court
Judicator Battalion
Deathmarks

Bottom/Mid-tier
Flayed Ones
Conclave of the Burning One (weak since FAQ)
Retribution Phalanx (weak since FAQ)
Living Tomb
Additional Warriors or Immortals to the Reclamation Legion
Ghost Arks added to Warriors
NS added to Reclamation Legion or Judicator

Bottom tier
Annihilation Nexus
Deathbringer Flight




This feels pretty accurate based on my experience.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/01/22 12:51:03


 
   
Made in jp
Proud Triarch Praetorian





I guess next would be the ranking of combo?

I'm a particular fan of a Destroyer Lord attached to Deathmarks (new D&D squad), but I know it doesn't hold a candle to an Orikan-star... though which variation would be higher rated (Wraith or S&S Lych), I do not know.

And then there's Sentry-star.
And Wraith-wing.
And Alpha-strike-Obyron and friends.
Etc.

So many options!

 
   
Made in hk
Perfect Shot Ultramarine Predator Pilot




col_impact wrote:
It only makes sense to rank individual units into tiers if you are running a CAD.

If you are running a Decurion, then you should be ranking formations instead of units in terms of top-tier, mid-tier, and bottom-tier. The Reclamation Legion itself does not need to be ranked since its a tax. However any add-ons to the min Reclamation Legion should be ranked.

Top tier
Harvest
D. Cult
Additional Tomb Blades to the Reclamation Legion

Mid-tier
Royal Court
Judicator Battalion
Deathmarks

Bottom/Mid-tier
Flayed Ones
Conclave of the Burning One (weak since FAQ)
Retribution Phalanx (weak since FAQ)
Living Tomb
Additional Warriors or Immortals to the Reclamation Legion
Ghost Arks added to Warriors
NS added to Reclamation Legion or Judicator

Bottom tier
Annihilation Nexus
Deathbringer Flight




Suggest consider Deathbringer Flight paired up with the Nightbringer C'tan, could be no bad.
   
Made in gb
Freaky Flayed One




It's only -1 Ld total, right?
   
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Out of my Mind

Where do we stand with Warriors in the Ghost Arks benefiting from Triarch Stalkers? I'm asking for the actual rule, as I'm aware most casual gamers are allowing it.

Current Armies
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Anyone listing Flayed Ones near the bottom tier haven't had the pleasure of running into Genestealer Cults yet.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
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Out of my Mind

They're still listing Wraiths as Top Tier.

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Shadowblades - Working on it

 
   
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 Akar wrote:
They're still listing Wraiths as Top Tier.

That's because they are.
What you get for the points you pay is very efficient. Anything along those lines tends to be regarded as "top tier".

 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka




 skoffs wrote:
 Akar wrote:
They're still listing Wraiths as Top Tier.

That's because they are.
What you get for the points you pay is very efficient. Anything along those lines tends to be regarded as "top tier".

This is maybe the first time I've seen someone proclaim that they aren't top tier.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in us
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Out of my Mind

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
This is maybe the first time I've seen someone proclaim that they aren't top tier.
I feel the same way, but on the other end of the opinion scale. When were they ever top tier?

Current Armies
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Shadowblades - Working on it

 
   
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From the most twisted corners of your psyche

Since the 5th ed codex.
T5 2W units with S6 Rending and 3+ invuls are really good.

What I have
LM
What I like stomping


Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!


 
   
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 Akar wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
This is maybe the first time I've seen someone proclaim that they aren't top tier.
I feel the same way, but on the other end of the opinion scale. When were they ever top tier?

Since the new codex came out. Even in 5th they were still top tier.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in jp
Proud Triarch Praetorian





This codex solidified their top tier status by giving them access to RP and/or Shred as well.

 
   
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Out of my Mind

If you're not going to state why they're top tier then it's not going to help. They can't even be in a top tier position if you can't even say why they belong there. Especially when they've never been in that position. The current Dex gave them some much needed attention, but that's not any kind of answer to the question now is it? They needed the buff to be fieldable, and they only barely make the cut.

Let's look at Wraiths. Keep in mind these are my opinions, based on my experiences since they showed up the first time. I expect some disagreement and that's fine, this is a tactics thread. I'm fully aware of what their stats are, what they're capable of, and I'm not questioning what makes them good. I am questioning what you guys think makes them Top Tier? Not one soul has been able to give me an answer. My experience has shown me that there isn't anything they do, that can't be done better by the other options.

- With the exception of maybe the Ctan and Spyders (which have other purposes), the Wraiths are the most expensive per model out of the available options. Praetorians and Lychguard are a few points more per wound, but that gap narrows as units get larger, or when Wraiths waste points on Coils, and I'll come back to this.

- T5/2W/3+. Against the majority of non MEQ stuff, which is the majority of weapons out there, this is all Wraiths are. There seems to be a big deal made about the Invul, but that's only great against anti-MEQ stuff. My Plague Marine friend laughs at why people think that the Invul is great, as they are pretty easily dealt with by conventional weapons. Lychguard and Praetorians are also T5, have a 3+ save and come with RP. Flayed Ones get you 3W per Wraith, aren't as resilient but again, come with RP. Scarabs will give you twice the number of wounds, but I'll admit this is tricky with how common S7 is right now. For those that count Wounds, Toughness, and Saves, Wraiths aren't the Top Tier choice out of the available options.

- Fearless/Jump. Praetorians and Scarabs have the same move and are Fearless. Wraithflight is only an advantage here in that rare situation where you put yourself into a position to allow your opponent to get something in range that needs to be dealt with that the other units can't get to. Flayed Ones offset their move with Infiltrate, and played aggressively, should hit the enemy lines the same time as the Wraiths. Lychguard and Flayed Ones have enough damage output that LD10 is more than enough to keep them in a fight. With so many options available in the Dex to get Fearless, or abuse the LD10, Wraiths don't Top Tier here either.

- Attacks. This seems to be the big sticking point for me as people try to tell me this is a big selling point. At 3A per model, they have the lowest wound count potential of the options. Rending is nice, but with so few attacks it's not enough to be consistently reliable. Praetorians are the only ones that shoot, which alone puts the equal to Wraiths attacks per model, which is double the number of attacks per wound. Flayed Ones put out 4 Attacks per wound with Shred, with T8 being the only advantage that Wraiths have on them as far as Attacks are concerned, and only then if you're not taking enough other Necrons goodness to deal with T8. (Which I'm seeing is pretty common on Wraith dependent lists). Scarabs are the same Attacks per model, but fewer per wound. They can wound anything the Wraiths can, and still do fine against Armor. With other units providing more Attacks, or more Efficient Attacks than Wraiths, they don't Top Tier here by a long shot.

** I stand by what I said when I say that Whip Coils are a waste. The recent FAQ reverted Whip Coils back to being useful, but they dont increase the number of attacks. So you pay a small number of point to insure those attacks, but this also makes the cost of Praetorians/Lychguard a more attractive option.

- Tarpit. As a standalone unit, this is where Wraiths shine. Especially in low model count CAD based lists. In more average lists, not including Decurion, they don't have RP and Cron players will eventually find a balance where the damage output of the army as a whole, combined with RP to not need to rely on Tarpit tactics. There is one exception to this, but I'll get to that at the end. Regardless, Wraiths might Top Tier here, but as soon as a Cron player gets a handle on what the army does, or moves into a Decurion, they lose the seat here to other options, including non assault options.

- "Jack of all Trades, Master of None". The combination of having strengths is each of these categories combines to make their cost sufficient enough add to lists. This makes them a great learning tool for newer players to learn the strengths and weaknesses of the rest of the army. Particularly those who don't know which of the above units to fill the role that they are taking Wraiths for. Even I recommend them at this stage for quite a few players while they decide which direction they want to take their list, what their Meta is, and how Wraiths are being used to know which of the other units to replace them. In order to 'solidify' there position as Top Tier, they'd have to remain the best option or be irreplaceable. Which can happen on certain lists, but certainly not as a broad categorization.

- Harvests/Decurion. Harvest do grant additional options to Wraiths, which are great but they are also options that already exist on other units. Now, I don't agree with the TAX mentality, but I'll point out something that I find humorous. Those that take a Harvest, especially a Double, run the minimum Scarabs with no expectation of them doing much. The Spyder is required to give the bonus, which again, already exists on units that aren't dependent on its range or even on the board. Adding those points, and picking the bonus does nothing to change those 3 attacks per model, just that they get them. When you divvy up the cost of the tax among the Wraiths, you end up making the Praetorians, Flayed Ones, and even Lychguard MORE attractive options. So in the end, the Wraiths fail to Top Tier here.

-----

So where do they Top Tier? "Competetive" play is usually the best answer that someone gives as if that is supposed to change anything above. I'm going to try to keep my rant on what a joke "Competetive" play has become to a minimum, but it is a valid place where Wraiths Top Tier and for good reason. I mainly play Maelstrom missions with none of that Discard crap that is common, or I play Eternal War missions for smaller games. I occasionally play an ITC scenario when asked, and it's usually with one of the lists found online and not my own.

These events alter the Scenarios, change the mission objectives, don't play Maelstrom, include FAQs to restrict certain rules, limit the number of times a formation can be taken, reward Deathstars, and have still refused to allow Unbound. In an environment like this, the shift on which units become useful extend beyond the reasons listed above, and threats to Wraiths are reduced on non existent. Wraiths Top Tier here because they do things that aren't normally required in Maelstrom/EW missions, where threats to them are reduced, and taking units that outperform them don't score the points needed to win.

So Wraiths are Top Tier, in an environment where they thrive, by players who prefer to play by a group of rules and a set of scenarios, where they feel the game is playable. A group, that according to the survey not too long ago, shows that they are the minority of the community as a whole. I deal with this a lot where I currently live, and run into these "Competetive" players often. When they step up, and start playing the missions, especially Maelstrom, the Wraiths simply don't hold up. It's too easy to either deal with them, ignore them, or throw something at them to eat through until it's too late to have an impact on the game.

So yeah, I have NO IDEA why Wraiths are considered Top Tier.

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I can't wait to get to a computer and go point by point why you're stupidly wrong.

Unless someone else does it first.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in jp
Proud Triarch Praetorian





Oi, just remember to keep it civil.

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Wraiths are the best tarpitters in all of 40k and they are the perfect tactical counterpart to Necron's other top-tier units: Tomb Blades and Destroyers.

   
Made in us
Deranged Necron Destroyer




Out of my Mind

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I can't wait to get to a computer and go point by point why you're stupidly wrong.

Challenge Accepted! If it will show me something that I haven't been told, that is practical enough to take to a game and see a difference, then I welcome the attempt! Anything is better than the 'Because they are!' response.
col_impact wrote:
Wraiths are the best tarpitters in all of 40k and they are the perfect tactical counterpart to Necron's other top-tier units: Tomb Blades and Destroyers.

When comparing Tarpit units to other Tarpit units based purely off their unit entry, then I have no disagreement with the first part of this statement. As players start paying points for combos however, several units in the game become just as effective if not more effective than Wraiths. In our own Codex, a Fearless Zahndrekh leading a Core Decurion unit of 20 Warriors has been a better use of points when needing a Tarpit. As opposed to Wraiths who are dependent on the Spyder being around, meeting up with the unit they need to Tarpit, and avoiding everything that could stop them from getting to that unit. Even Tomb Blades in a Decurion have worked as a late game Tarpit in a pinch.

It rests entirely on requiring or expecting the need for a Tarpit unit. Because a Tarpit tactic isn't needed in every Necron list, there is no need for them to be a Top Tier units, which is what we're discussing. I don't mean to give the impression that they're bad. They're a great unit, and work well in quite a few lists. When they are outperformed in specific areas by the other units in our dex, then taking them for that specific purpose keeps them a mid-tier choice.

Out of curiosity, why do you think that Destroyers are Top Tier?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/01/23 18:08:29


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col_impact wrote:
Wraiths are the best tarpitters in all of 40k



That's a really strange way to spell Flesh Hounds of Khorne.
   
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Akar,

in your opinion what are the three units that define the Necron top tier?
   
Made in us
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Out of my Mind

col_impact wrote:
Akar,
in your opinion what are the three units that define the Necron top tier?
Honestly, it's hard to tell what the criteria is. Is it cost efficiency? Performance? Things that should be an Auto Include? Is it based on just their entry, it's role in a formation, or interaction with other units? Do we base it off of its intended use or format? It's hard to say. A Top Tier unit for me would have to be units that are on a list, and would be really difficult to cut out.

I'm happy with my current list that I haven't really needed to put them into tiers. I gave it some thought, so here is my list on how I would rank them, and why.

Top Tier
- Warriors. THE backbone of the Necron army, and one of the most efficient and effective models in the game. For a mere 13pts, you get an I2 Space Marine Scout that has improved FnP, and a weapon that can't be ignored by anything in the game. Anyone who started when they were our only Troop choice knows that they have been and are still the best unit in our codex. No other unit in our codex has as many combo options as these guys. We have a Dedicated Transport BUILT for them. They make a really good case for that transport cap on Nightscyhes. No other unit benefits more from Buffs, like Stalkers, Destroyer Lords, Szeras, or the variety of WL traits that we have extreme control over with Zahndrekh. No other unit will increase the value of having a Cryptek in there with or without a Chrono. The Reclamation Legion is built to really favor them, even as a standalone. The Retribution Phalanx is pretty lethal because of these guys.

- Tomb Blades. With the decline of Immortals with each Codex, these guys picked up the mantle and elevated it. The T5, 3+ 2 shots are not only back, but are faster, cheaper, and more lethal with access to 'Ignore Cover'. They filled the void left by Classic Destroyers by being one of the few units than can threaten units over 30" away, and with a Blast option, can match the insane number of hits that Classic Destroyers used to put out. Works well in large or small unit sizes to meet any players style. The amount of freedom the get from being run in a Rec. Legion, and Decurion comes close to rivaling what Warriors get out. These guys really should be on most lists, Decurion or not.

- Zahndrekh. An Overlord kitted out to get close to what he does costs more. The 2+/4i alone is worth the cost. Starting out with Zealot, then having the tactical flexibility to adapt to virtually any situation outweighs anything that his lack of a Warscythe brings. The ability to copy a handful of USRs is just sprinkles on this Frosted Cupcake of goodness. He can fill the Overlord requirement in the Rec Legion, but is an excellent choice for a CAD as well. While he can be dropped if needed, there are games where I have missed having him.

** Noteworthy Mention. Szeras and Orikan are both Top Tier worthy. The requirements to non CAD lists is really the only thing holding either of these guys back from being Top Tier.

Mid Tier
- This is the highest Wraiths go for me, and really only when taken outside of a Harvest. They are really great for new players who play against people that already know their army. Once you get a handle on what Necrons are good at, they swing pretty fast to being a backup unit. Since the builds on Necron shooting can vary greatly between players, it takes a bit longer to figure out which Assault units to actually take, so these guys retain their usefulness longer than trying to learn how Necrons work without them. After that, though, the above statement apply, and you can find better performing units to do the job. Even in lists where I do have them, they're usually the first to get cut if I need to shave points.

- Immortals/Destoyers. While these are both VERY good units, they're a bit more specialized in their performance and what their role should are in a list. They suffer from the same 30" restriction on their shooting as the Warriors do, and if you're running Warriors, that kill zone can get crowded. Destoyers have the advantage of ensuring kills, but the limit on how much they'd can kill is easier to overcome than players realize. The Assault move is handy, but takes some skill to get use done to. Gauss Immortals are really effective at being a threat to non MEQ armies as the Destroyers are, with a NS option making up for lost ground. I've grown to love my Tesla Immortals now more than before. This is because both Immortals and Destroyers are really dependent on what they are supporting. As mainstay units, they remain powerful, but one of the weaker options wen compared to the other combinations we have available. This is why they won't be Top Tier.

- Flayed Ones, Praetorians, Scarabs. Pretty much the same as Immortals/Destroyers. They're a bit more specialized, and dependent on what's they are supporting, and what they're being used for. Unlike Wraiths, these units will have harder counters which should only be an issue while you narrow it down to dealing with those threats through other means.

Low Tier
- Deathmarks. Again, not a bad unit but one that I think chose to eat as much nerf bat as it could. They perform well when certain conditions are met. Does the enemy have anything in Deep Strike that's going to hurt? Is there anything that he is bringing that can't really be dealt with by the rest of your list? Is their target even going to be on the board? Is your opponent going first? Admittedly, my experience is limited, as I proxied them when trying to decide if I wanted to get them. Didn't take any of my opponents to just say 'Go first' and watch them arrive on Turn 2 with limited options to kill.

- Harvests. Mainly just putting it here because of the LENGTHS that players will go to just to get it. When you're trying to squeeze them in at really low point games, you're really just putting the cart in front of the horse, and not taking advantage of the real strengths of the Army. The other reason I place harvests here is the Scarab Tax mentality. A harvest only gets better when you use the Scarabs to their strengths, and not just some place n forget unit.

- Lychguard. While it is one of the units I have never fielded, their limited mobility, lack of any special deployment, and investment and playstyle to make them a threat keep them here for me. Like the above, they're not bad and can be quite powerful. In light of all the other options, I'll probably never use them.

- Destroyer Lords/ CCBs. These guys are so odd that it's impossible to place them somewhere or use them to where they can't really use their full abilities. I.e., When you do one thing with them, they aren't really using something else you paid for them to do. They're not incredibly difficult to deal with. Its also easier to spend their points on something that is more worthwhile.

** Everything else not listed is because I have limited experience, haven't ever fielded them, or just really don't fit my playstyle. I'd put all of them mid tier, since we don't really have bad units. All of the Vehicles and the CTan are mid tier. They just require a specialized list to perform really well, and often times those lists come at the cost of Top Tier units.

These are my opinions, so I'm sure most will disagree. That's fine, I'm just trying offer my reasons behind my decisions since they vary from the mainstream. If new players read this thread, it helps if they're informed about why they should be spending money. The number of players I run into that put stuff down, based on what they read online, is disheartening to me as a hobbyist. They have no idea why a unit is good, and because they never took the time to ask, they don't know what to do when those units don't do what they thought it would.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/01/24 04:00:57


Current Armies
(40k) Necron - On Hiatus
Shadowblades - Working on it

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Akar,

can you adjust your tiers so HQ are not included? I should have been clearer. I meant the top 3 units, not including HQ.
   
 
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