Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

You know so hard to find really good Game store now. I told my buddy the other day that he was one of kind in Game hobby shop biz. Great customer service and more. My buddy ran Hobby Kingdom in Detroit MI and went started his own shop which was Front Line and Fantasy in Macomb MI. Man nothing is forever.

The fun part about American business taxes is that major corporations don't pay anything close to that rate.

In 2010 (the most recent year I have numbers for at hand) corporate profits were a combined 2.1 trillion dollars. Now you'd think with a tax rate just shy of 40% the corporate taxes revenue would be in the vicinity of 800 billion dollars, right?

Corporate tax revenue in 2010 was 181 billion dollars, a mere 8.6% of profit.

Compare that to the average income tax rate that year of 22% (4.5 trillion in payroll vs. just over 1 trillion in income tax revenue) and you start to see why Americans get a bit riled up about cutting the business tax RATE. Personally, I'm fine with the rate being cut, so long as the massive loopholes that major corporations drive literal truckloads of cash through get cut too.

To be fair, small businesses have access to a lot of tax breaks as well. And if your company is making much of a profit (assuming you've already built up a bit of a buffer) you're probably doing it wrong.

 HunterEste wrote:

EDIT: Example:

He sells a $60 games workshop kit, the kit costs him $40 wholesale, he makes $20 profit, 38.5% of that is then taken away by the IRS, so he's left with $12.30 to divide up between operating costs, new stock, and whatever he can scrape together to pay himself.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I was a bit wrong on the tax rate, it's actually 39.1

Per wiki's entry on the US Corporate tax rates:

"In 2014 the United States had the third highest general top marginal corporate income tax rate in the world at 39.1 percent (consisting of the 35% federal rate plus a combined state rate), exceeded only by Chad and the United Arab Emirates."

There's a couple problems with your example.

First off, you are assuming he's a corporation. Most small stores aren't. The one I do the books for isn't (It was a sole proprietorship, now it's a partnership).

Until they make more than $10k in profit, they only pay about 15% taxes as a sole proprietorship. Then it goes up to about 30%, then 35% after a bit.

The second off, is that even if he is a corporation, he wouldn't be in the top tax bracket. Until you make over $50k in profit, it's only a 15% tax rate on corporations.

 HunterEste wrote:
I just heard that Trump is trying to get his new tax plan pushed through, it would reduce small business taxes from a staggering 38.5% down to a more reasonable 15%.

Too little, too late in this case. The US is very small-business unfriendly, sadly. I don't even know how the hell any of them stay open. Between that insane tax levels, plus paying tax on their personal income from the store, and the super low profit margin (I think most stuff he sold, only about 30% of the sale was actual "profit") so in order to JUST cover his montly rent for his small store (over $2000/month) he'd have to sell at least $6000 of product. That doesn't even cover his taxes, the utilities, or paying himself to keep a roof over his own head.


EDIT: Example:

He sells a $60 games workshop kit, the kit costs him $40 wholesale, he makes $20 profit, 38.5% of that is then taken away by the IRS, so he's left with $12.30 to divide up between operating costs, new stock, and whatever he can scrape together to pay himself.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I was a bit wrong on the tax rate, it's actually 39.1

Per wiki's entry on the US Corporate tax rates:

"In 2014 the United States had the third highest general top marginal corporate income tax rate in the world at 39.1 percent (consisting of the 35% federal rate plus a combined state rate), exceeded only by Chad and the United Arab Emirates."

That's not how it works at all.. I suggest not listening to Libertarian Propaganda.

You pay your tax rate on PROFITS (Not revenue) at end of your tax cycle not on every single sale you make. Business expenses (IE inventory, improvements, store costs) and salary of employees subtract from your profits. Taxes primarily effect the take home money of the owner of a LLC as smart business owners don't leave tens of thousands of profits laying around to be taxed.

It's always sad to see a FLGS go under. The one I frequent has a very healthy population of players from card games, board games, RPG gamers, Wargaming and historical games.

The owner is very active on facebook, advertising tournaments, magic releases etc. It also helps that he is a really great guy too. Had the sense to make each night of the week a theme night, where a player of said theme nights game had table priority. Not that table space is limited, 3 floors with 8 on the the 2nd and 3rd means there's loads of space! While you are charge to play, it's £2.50 for a day pass, so a once a week guy like me doesn't mind paying.
Also, every item in the shop is a minimum of 10% off RRP. I'm always looking to save a few bucks, but unless I'm buying £90+ models online, I'd rather buy from the FLGS as I don't get stung for shipping. I don't always buy from there, but I make sure to buy a drink and a snack, as I want to help keep the FLGS going, as it's the only one near me to be viable due to work/family commitments.

 Kirasu wrote:

 HunterEste wrote:
I just heard that Trump is trying to get his new tax plan pushed through, it would reduce small business taxes from a staggering 38.5% down to a more reasonable 15%.

Too little, too late in this case. The US is very small-business unfriendly, sadly. I don't even know how the hell any of them stay open. Between that insane tax levels, plus paying tax on their personal income from the store, and the super low profit margin (I think most stuff he sold, only about 30% of the sale was actual "profit") so in order to JUST cover his montly rent for his small store (over $2000/month) he'd have to sell at least $6000 of product. That doesn't even cover his taxes, the utilities, or paying himself to keep a roof over his own head.


EDIT: Example:

He sells a $60 games workshop kit, the kit costs him $40 wholesale, he makes $20 profit, 38.5% of that is then taken away by the IRS, so he's left with $12.30 to divide up between operating costs, new stock, and whatever he can scrape together to pay himself.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I was a bit wrong on the tax rate, it's actually 39.1

Per wiki's entry on the US Corporate tax rates:

"In 2014 the United States had the third highest general top marginal corporate income tax rate in the world at 39.1 percent (consisting of the 35% federal rate plus a combined state rate), exceeded only by Chad and the United Arab Emirates."

That's not how it works at all.. I suggest not listening to Libertarian Propaganda.

You pay your tax rate on PROFITS (Not revenue) at end of your tax cycle not on every single sale you make. Business expenses (IE inventory, improvements, store costs) and salary of employees subtract from your profits. Taxes primarily effect the take home money of the owner of a LLC as smart business owners don't leave tens of thousands of profits laying around to be taxed.

actually you pay all taxs you collect, the state takes their tax on product sold, you the business also pay taxs based on product sold with deduction for various things, then there is the city taxs and federal taxs and so forth.

Asterios wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:

 HunterEste wrote:
I just heard that Trump is trying to get his new tax plan pushed through, it would reduce small business taxes from a staggering 38.5% down to a more reasonable 15%.

Too little, too late in this case. The US is very small-business unfriendly, sadly. I don't even know how the hell any of them stay open. Between that insane tax levels, plus paying tax on their personal income from the store, and the super low profit margin (I think most stuff he sold, only about 30% of the sale was actual "profit") so in order to JUST cover his montly rent for his small store (over $2000/month) he'd have to sell at least $6000 of product. That doesn't even cover his taxes, the utilities, or paying himself to keep a roof over his own head.


EDIT: Example:

He sells a $60 games workshop kit, the kit costs him $40 wholesale, he makes $20 profit, 38.5% of that is then taken away by the IRS, so he's left with $12.30 to divide up between operating costs, new stock, and whatever he can scrape together to pay himself.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I was a bit wrong on the tax rate, it's actually 39.1

Per wiki's entry on the US Corporate tax rates:

"In 2014 the United States had the third highest general top marginal corporate income tax rate in the world at 39.1 percent (consisting of the 35% federal rate plus a combined state rate), exceeded only by Chad and the United Arab Emirates."

That's not how it works at all.. I suggest not listening to Libertarian Propaganda.

You pay your tax rate on PROFITS (Not revenue) at end of your tax cycle not on every single sale you make. Business expenses (IE inventory, improvements, store costs) and salary of employees subtract from your profits. Taxes primarily effect the take home money of the owner of a LLC as smart business owners don't leave tens of thousands of profits laying around to be taxed.

actually you pay all taxs you collect, the state takes their tax on product sold, you the business also pay taxs based on product sold with deduction for various things, then there is the city taxs and federal taxs and so forth.

Those are sales taxes. Income taxes are paid purely on profits.

There are no taxes on product sold that the business pays. There's sales tax that the purchaser pays and the business collects for the government (and gets a cut of).

Asterios wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:

 HunterEste wrote:
I just heard that Trump is trying to get his new tax plan pushed through, it would reduce small business taxes from a staggering 38.5% down to a more reasonable 15%.

Too little, too late in this case. The US is very small-business unfriendly, sadly. I don't even know how the hell any of them stay open. Between that insane tax levels, plus paying tax on their personal income from the store, and the super low profit margin (I think most stuff he sold, only about 30% of the sale was actual "profit") so in order to JUST cover his montly rent for his small store (over $2000/month) he'd have to sell at least $6000 of product. That doesn't even cover his taxes, the utilities, or paying himself to keep a roof over his own head.


EDIT: Example:

He sells a $60 games workshop kit, the kit costs him $40 wholesale, he makes $20 profit, 38.5% of that is then taken away by the IRS, so he's left with $12.30 to divide up between operating costs, new stock, and whatever he can scrape together to pay himself.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I was a bit wrong on the tax rate, it's actually 39.1

Per wiki's entry on the US Corporate tax rates:

"In 2014 the United States had the third highest general top marginal corporate income tax rate in the world at 39.1 percent (consisting of the 35% federal rate plus a combined state rate), exceeded only by Chad and the United Arab Emirates."

That's not how it works at all.. I suggest not listening to Libertarian Propaganda.

You pay your tax rate on PROFITS (Not revenue) at end of your tax cycle not on every single sale you make. Business expenses (IE inventory, improvements, store costs) and salary of employees subtract from your profits. Taxes primarily effect the take home money of the owner of a LLC as smart business owners don't leave tens of thousands of profits laying around to be taxed.

actually you pay all taxs you collect, the state takes their tax on product sold, you the business also pay taxs based on product sold with deduction for various things, then there is the city taxs and federal taxs and so forth.

Incredible amount of wrong info in just a single sentence.

Asterios wrote:
actually you pay all taxs you collect, the state takes their tax on product sold, you the business also pay taxs based on product sold with deduction for various things, then there is the city taxs and federal taxs and so forth.

Yes, you do pay as a business 100% of the sales tax you collect... because it isn't your money. It's money paid to the state by the customer for taxes on that product. It isn't income for the business, and is effectively as pass-through payment from the customer to the state. At least as far as federal taxes go, business taxes are only paid on profit, so in effect a lower rate just incentives profit taking and reduces the incentive to reinvest or pay employees-- exactly what you don't want to encourage if you want a working economy. Money taken in through sales taxes would not be taxed as income at a federal level. It sucks when businesses aren't smart enough to segregate sales tax money out from the rest so that they can pay the state, but failure to do so is their lack of competence, not something to be angry at the state over.

If you're just going to be a poor punctuation version of Peter Molyneux, I'd suggest maybe getting a bit of an education first before you go talking about things.

You actually don't give the state all the sales tax you collect. You get to keep a small portion. It's why a lot of places illegally charge you sales tax on coupons when they shouldn't.

How about running a crowdfunding campaign?

I haven't seen any to pay taxes (and he'd have to pay taxes for money raised through KS), but I've seen them for other projects, such as theater renovations, and store expansions.

Beer is an expansion, right?

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1231288602/the-portland-game-room

 HunterEste wrote:
Just found out some awful news, our FLGS is closing on the 30th. The owner had been in operation for 3 years and it had been such an amazing place to hang out, meet people, and play games. We're in a city of about 200,000 people with about another 200,000 in neighboring areas (less than 40 minutes in any direction). This was the only location that really supported wargaming, board games, and RPGs. Our only other option is a generic MTG-centered store. It sounds like he got stuck in a bad tax situation and thanks to a miscalculation, he owed a significantly larger sum than he was originally anticipating...

Guess it's time to box up the models/games and hope a new store shows up soon? Anyone else had their only LGS just close on them? What did you end up doing to scratch your hobby itch once there wasn't really a place to go to anymore?

Yeah, I've been there. Sorry to hear it. My only real FLGS within 25 miiles closed 2 years ago (there is a nearby crappy comics and card store run by an donkey-cave who only treats pokemon/magic kids well) and my hobby definitely suffered. It was already in a decline due to a drop off in RPG interest amongst friends and acquaintences along with an intense dislike of 6th and then especially 7th edition 40k on our parts. I busied myself with painting up most of my remaining unpainted models that I intended to keep, selling most of what I had that I suspected I'd never use (painted or unpainted), and played more videogames. I'd occasionally make the trek to the next good store (about 55 miles away directly across a major metro area 1million+ population and all the traffic that entails) but only twice a year at most.

My advice is to just wait it out and if you're in contact with other gamers from there try to do a monthly get together somewhere and game (like a rotation of folks houses). Otherwise, try to meet up in a public place with available tables and reasonable management like a restaurant/coffee shop on a not so busy day and do some small format gaming there while ALSO patronizing the establishment. Some folks here would RPG for years at a local family restaurant that wasn't busy on a weeknight. As long as they all ordered food initially and occasionally a snack latter for the table (and chipped in for a tip while also being relatively respectful in their speech volume), they were allowed to RPG in a very atypical location. Other than that, just wait. In my case, it took almost two years but there is another FLGS owned and staffed by customers of the previous store not far from its location. I've only visited once since it opened up a few months ago but I hope that this new edition of 40k won't disgust me as much as the last two and that I'll be interested in making the trek out for monthly gaming sometime soon. Good luck regardless.