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 BaronIveagh wrote:
I'm more concerned about the implied gutting of the armies like IG with the removal of templates. sounds like there will now be only one IG army: infantry swarm

Because those tanks with Small Blasts and the Hellhound were really effective to begin with.

It's likely many tanks will actually gain a BOOST from it. How many people remember that the Leman Russ Eradicator is a thing?

 BaronIveagh wrote:
I'm more concerned about the implied gutting of the armies like IG with the removal of templates. sounds like there will now be only one IG army: infantry swarm

I mean, the weapons still exist, we just dont know how they'll be translated. If a Battlecannon is S8 ASM-3, D6+2 hits that do D3 wounds each for 150pts that can fire other weapons at no penalty, well, Russ tanks will probably be pretty stronk. If it's ASM -2 with D3 single damage hits for 200pts with the same Ordnance restrictions, then we'll have issues.

 BaronIveagh wrote:
I'm more concerned about the implied gutting of the armies like IG with the removal of templates. sounds like there will now be only one IG army: infantry swarm

It's actually quite an improvement for things like Battle Cannons. Not to mention how much better our vehicles in general will be compared to now.

The most exciting part: free rules.

Looking at my bookshelf and adding up what I spent on 6th and 7th edition... do not want to pay that again.

 Galas wrote:
I'm really excited for playing with my soon to be stunted Dark Angels Armie in comparasion with the new Numarines.
I will rename then as Space Gobbos

Where do you think the "Watchers in the Dark" came from?
Marines from a long forgotten scale update.

 blackmage wrote:
problem is... who trust gw still, after the disaster they did with 7th? i m not one who trust them, gw is always highly capable to destroy anything they touch...

Really? I felt 7th was pretty good. 6th was the garbage one.

Random charge is in because the intention since the very first editions of WFB and 40k were that assault should be a risk. This is why we didn't have pre-measuring back then. But players quickly showed that guessing distance wasn't a huge imposition and we could entirely mitigate the risk with a keen eye. That is why guess range weapons went the way of the dodo. We were the commander of the army, not its gunner. The to-hit roll (or in some editions the scatter roll) was the "risk" in firing G-range weapons. So when pre-measuring became the norm, they could close that little meta-game loophole and make declaring a charge a risk again. I get why folks don't like it, but there is a reason for it to be there in the first place and it does its job.

I think the version we're getting in 8th has some upsides that will make it less potentially capricious. First the 1" bubble for engagement means that you can hit max charge range a bit more reliably. The second, if we are reading the article correctly, is that even if you fail, you still move.

Overwatch? If GW are moving back toward allowing high-speed assault armies getting stuck in sooner (not something we are certain of yet, but a lot of floating rumours about assaulting from various things that used to preclude it) then this is necessary (alongside disengaging) to keep the end game more than just a curb stomp once a close combat army gets stuck in. Hopefully there aren't a lot of ways to buff it so that it is basically a proper firing phase, but if the assault changes are aimed toward getting them in fast, then it stands to reason that there should be some way of popping a shot off before they get stuck in.

NuMarines? Depends entirely on the execution. It isn't like the 40k-verse has never had more-marine-than-marine things crop up in the fluff. Mysterious improved marines of the Cursed Founding, the Adeptus Custodes, Grey Knights (especially in their original incarnation), Thunder Warriors, hell even Pre-Heresy Marines can fit the bill (because most marines are actually mutated and lessened in this age, its part of the irony that despite their hate of mutation the Imperium's modern heroes are actually riddled with mutation).

And it isn't like they've never done stupid, over-the-top additions to the fluff. But most folks have internalized a lot of the older additions and retcons. You wont hear folks complaining about Orks being fungus and wielding guns that work on shared psychic delusion. Hell most folks have even come to accept Tau at this point. So while my kneejerk is to think they're lame, I have also been through so many fluff additions, retcons, and switches that it is hard to care that deeply anymore. GW has been messing with the fluff since '87. Marines have gone from press-ganged convicts ala Sardaukar to being inhuman murder engines. This is a game that once had Inquistor Obiwan Sherlock Clousseau in it. It is a game where the most famous Ork warboss is a dig at Margaret Thatcher. So sure, NuMarines, why not? The game is no stranger to lame fluff that we end up internalizing over the years and decades until it is part of the constant shark jumping the game has been doing for the last 30 years.

So sure, they may be lame, GW my up the execution. Or they may not. Hard to tell, but the game wont be worse for them any more than it is worse for the other dozens of half-arsed ideas they've slung out over the game's history.

I'm excited.

I look forward to having 30 Repentia and 30 Vigilators charge out of transports on turn 2.

I also look forwards to running the Armoured Battlegroup again, hitting for D6 wounds with all my tanks.

I'm just hoping points cost doesn't decide to go up drastically.

Sorry, double posted...

Started off good...rapidly going in the opposite direction.

I enjoy AoS and 40k 8th is shaping up to being AoS but better. Having a game I would actually enjoy playing in this setting that I love would be great. I am a bit worried about close combat, but until I see more I can't make a verdict on whether or not it will be weakened. I am definitely still excited/hyped.

Yeah I'm looking forward to it. I had resigned myself to a future of GW tinkering at the edges of the rules. This top to bottom overhaul is very welcome in my book.

As for the NuMarines. The background could suck, but it could also be really cool(YMMV of course). But I'm confident the models will be good.

 Dr. Cheesesteak wrote:
where's the "not sure" option?

 Nosferatu71 wrote:
I have some reservations, but overall I'm excited. It helps that I've gotten older and have less time to play, so a simplified ruleset with faster play time is a godsend for me.

qft

Sorry.
My machine spirit doesn't speak "maybe".


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ronin_eX wrote:
Random charge is in because the intention since the very first editions of WFB and 40k were that assault should be a risk. This is why we didn't have pre-measuring back then. But players quickly showed that guessing distance wasn't a huge imposition and we could entirely mitigate the risk with a keen eye. That is why guess range weapons went the way of the dodo. We were the commander of the army, not its gunner. The to-hit roll (or in some editions the scatter roll) was the "risk" in firing G-range weapons. So when pre-measuring became the norm, they could close that little meta-game loophole and make declaring a charge a risk again. I get why folks don't like it, but there is a reason for it to be there in the first place and it does its job.

I think the version we're getting in 8th has some upsides that will make it less potentially capricious. First the 1" bubble for engagement means that you can hit max charge range a bit more reliably. The second, if we are reading the article correctly, is that even if you fail, you still move.

Overwatch? If GW are moving back toward allowing high-speed assault armies getting stuck in sooner (not something we are certain of yet, but a lot of floating rumours about assaulting from various things that used to preclude it) then this is necessary (alongside disengaging) to keep the end game more than just a curb stomp once a close combat army gets stuck in. Hopefully there aren't a lot of ways to buff it so that it is basically a proper firing phase, but if the assault changes are aimed toward getting them in fast, then it stands to reason that there should be some way of popping a shot off before they get stuck in.

NuMarines? Depends entirely on the execution. It isn't like the 40k-verse has never had more-marine-than-marine things crop up in the fluff. Mysterious improved marines of the Cursed Founding, the Adeptus Custodes, Grey Knights (especially in their original incarnation), Thunder Warriors, hell even Pre-Heresy Marines can fit the bill (because most marines are actually mutated and lessened in this age, its part of the irony that despite their hate of mutation the Imperium's modern heroes are actually riddled with mutation).

And it isn't like they've never done stupid, over-the-top additions to the fluff. But most folks have internalized a lot of the older additions and retcons. You wont hear folks complaining about Orks being fungus and wielding guns that work on shared psychic delusion. Hell most folks have even come to accept Tau at this point. So while my kneejerk is to think they're lame, I have also been through so many fluff additions, retcons, and switches that it is hard to care that deeply anymore. GW has been messing with the fluff since '87. Marines have gone from press-ganged convicts ala Sardaukar to being inhuman murder engines. This is a game that once had Inquistor Obiwan Sherlock Clousseau in it. It is a game where the most famous Ork warboss is a dig at Margaret Thatcher. So sure, NuMarines, why not? The game is no stranger to lame fluff that we end up internalizing over the years and decades until it is part of the constant shark jumping the game has been doing for the last 30 years.

So sure, they may be lame, GW my up the execution. Or they may not. Hard to tell, but the game wont be worse for them any more than it is worse for the other dozens of half-arsed ideas they've slung out over the game's history.

Guess range charge has nothing to do with pulsa rokkits.

Overwatch is a necessity but everyone hitting on 6s and as many times as possible, when in the shooting phases a unit can use the same guns only once?

The 1" bubble is going to be as big a headache as a flamer template - base to base contact was pretty cut and dried.

Who are the numarines a dig on? GW Bush? Trump, because they are "huge"?

I am punch as drunk excited!

As someone who prefers assault, the game would be too broken without overwatch and random assault.

As long as overwatch can't be modified below 6+ that is.

Another factor is the potential to charge out of transports, we need this information to be solid.

I am way beyond excited.

 Rippy wrote:
I am punch as drunk excited!

As someone who prefers assault, the game would be too broken without overwatch and random assault.

As long as overwatch can't be modified below 6+ that is.

Another factor is the potential to charge out of transports, we need this information to be solid.

Did you ever play under the rules that Overwatch must be declared during the player's turn and taken in lieu of shooting,
with the unit sitting in wait for a threat to cross its field of view?
Much better mechanic, imo...

Voted for 'yes', as I am still excited for the new edition.

Basically, I do not play competetively, not in tournaments anyways, so most of the 7th shenannigans of Riptide Swarms and Scatbike Spam went by me even. That leaves me with a bloated rules system where layer after layer of rules, universal special rules, army specific special rules, formation added special rules, and what not has made the game slower and tedious to play in anything but low points cost games. Fully knowing, and accepting, that a rules reset would invalidate all my codices, I still embraced the idea of massive changes, even Sigmarifying the rules.

A couple of specific opinions on the matters at hand:

Random Charge ranges? We don't know enough about this, except that it will be in there, to cry havoc ans let slip the dogs of war. Besides, It might be gone within a year, following GW's own admission that a yearly update might be a good idea. As long as everybody keeps sending in constructive criticism about it. I too have failed one or two charges by rolling 'snake eyes' and having a strong melee unit shot to pieces. Not being for a prize or (inter)national recognition, I just saw the fun of a full brood of Genestealers tripping over their own claws and hooves and, because of their greater independence from the Hive Mind, argue over which morsel looks the tastiest, all the while forgetting to even try and get there in the first place. Would I have liked to see the now returned Movement stat to have mattered? Yes, of course. Will it never? I don't know, but there is a chance, through customer feedback, that this full randomness might only last a year. Or two.

Numarines? I am excited about these, actually. They move the story forward. There is a new player in town, who actually got to see his 'father' get things done. It isn't such a giant leap for my brain to accept that Robby G might still remember OldMarines that weren't genetically degenerated so they could no longer use their Betcher's Gland to spit acid and burn ropes and other bonds. He might have seen his scouts crack open an Ork's skull, devouring brain matter and due to the Omophagea 'learn' or 'remember' the location of the Ork camps and the strength of their forces. No Red Thirst, no Canis Helix, but nineteen fully operational implants. Would I like to see these new models replace the old ones? No, of course not. But my guess is, that they will become a separate elite choice, something any chapter can take one or two of as 'reinforcements'. it also opens up the possibility to start all over again, with a new chapter of your own creation, with nice fluff about it having been lost and now reconstructed, but only better. Besides, in friendly games especially, who is going to stop you from contacting your gaming friends and saying you want to play a game of Warhammer 39K, where you play without publicized named characters (even those that would have been around at that time) and any of that new stuff that only now starts appearing in both lore and miniature form?

Loss of templates? No big deal. While I did enjoy the occasional placement, and counting models hit, and accounting for scatter, I would not miss, nor enjoy, long drawn arguements about whether or not I have moved the template in the correct angle as indicated by the scatter die, thus possibly missing my own little plastic dudes there. "But a random die roll to see how many models are hit is yet another random die roll!" Yep, you're right. So is a scatter die roll, but then with three dice instead of one, or maybe two (we still don't know what the difference will be between a blast marker and a large blast marker in the new system, which I might guess to be 1d6 hits and 2d6 hits respectively). "But now my one Dreadnought might be hit 6 times from a flamer/blast marker (or even 12 times from a large blast, still just guessing)". indeed. But remember, that Dreadnought is a very big target. It has two weaponized arms, two stout legs, and a big torso on top of a tiny waist/hip section. That's six locations to be hit. Now imagine that blast top be super hot, a true explosion where heat, shockwave, and shrapnel conspire to not just hit that dreadnought, but also fry rubber wire tubes, penetrate drive systems, and do whatever damage it will do to all those insides. That's six hit locations on the outside, but also six locations on the inside, for a total of 12 possible locations to destroy something vital. This is, of course, ut a simple example of how one can right wrongs, or just extrapolate from what very little info we actually have on some matters such as the weapons (four profiles, one of which shows that the flamer template will no longer be used). I think I will just wait and see. What I have seen up till now, still gets me excited.

Cover adding to the Armour Saving Throw? I will admit that I would have liked cover to detract from the firer's Ballistic Skill. In my opinion, all stuff that makes you harder to be hit, such as not being completely visible due to standing behind a bush or peering around a corner, should lower your chances of being hit, and therefor affect the attack rolls. Stuff that makes you harder to drop, such as Nurgle marks, extra armour, combat drugs, etc., now that might affect your chances of survival, and through that, your Toughness value or your Armour Saving Throw. But again, once we have the full rules in our hands, we might see nuances that aren't visible right now. And those nuances might be things that make or break our perception of what little rules snippets we have seen now. And who knows, perhaps GW gets so much constructive feedback from people all over the world, that their yearly update of the rules might even change the cover rule from an Armour Saving Throw bonus to a Ballistic Skill penalty again. For that matter, I wonder what they'll do to the rules for Camo Cloaks and the likes?

Weapon Skill hitting on a specific target number? Sure, why not. Ballistic Skill has done so from the very beginning. It had fixed to hit numbers and modifiers way back in Rogue Trader, and it gets modifiers in 8th. With all the rules snippets we have seen, there isn't a single modifier to to hit rolls in combat, but this might just as well be on a model-by-model basis. Perhaps the Howling banshee masks will cause opponents a -2 or -3 to hit in melee and the banshees wail. Perhaps the Harlequins might have a special rule replacing their invulnerable save with a modifier to the opponent's ability to attack. Though I find the table (and the underlying base calculation) for rolling to hit in melee easy to remember, it is just as easy to see a number on a dataslate/warscroll/datasheet/whatchamacallin'it. Like I said above about cover, I think a defensive ability such as "Dodge 1; subtract 1 from your opponent's to hit rolls in melee against a model with this rule" is quite viable. You might even change it into "Dodge 3; subtract 3........" for real close combat monsters such as Lelith Hesperax or The Swarmlord that now has a close combat invulnerable save due to his Bonesabers. We will just have to wait and see.

 techsoldaten wrote:
The most exciting part: free rules.

Looking at my bookshelf and adding up what I spent on 6th and 7th edition... do not want to pay that again.

2nd edition rules are also free

And regardless, rules won't be 'free'... you will be buying books again, under a new name, and maybe two a year per army by design.
One a BRB and two for your end of the grand alliances set in the current and ever advancing story arc with modified points, abilities, and so on.

Yes, because I'll actually be able to start playing. And really the biggest reason I want to play 40k is because of aesthetics, as I hear Warmachine currently has a better ruleset. Haven't actually played that yet either though, because I hate painting. But I don't like Warmachine's setting/models nearly as much. I would like something that's rules heavy and is more of a simulation but I guess that's what historicals and (some) computer games are for. As long as I don't feel like I'm buying models and victory isn't dependent entirely on what you bring I'll probably have fun with it.

 Lord Xcapobl wrote:
Voted for 'yes', as I am still excited for the new edition.

Basically, I do not play competetively, not in tournaments anyways, so most of the 7th shenannigans of Riptide Swarms and Scatbike Spam went by me even. That leaves me with a bloated rules system where layer after layer of rules, universal special rules, army specific special rules, formation added special rules, and what not has made the game slower and tedious to play in anything but low points cost games. Fully knowing, and accepting, that a rules reset would invalidate all my codices, I still embraced the idea of massive changes, even Sigmarifying the rules.

A couple of specific opinions on the matters at hand:

Random Charge ranges? We don't know enough about this, except that it will be in there, to cry havoc ans let slip the dogs of war. Besides, It might be gone within a year, following GW's own admission that a yearly update might be a good idea. As long as everybody keeps sending in constructive criticism about it. I too have failed one or two charges by rolling 'snake eyes' and having a strong melee unit shot to pieces. Not being for a prize or (inter)national recognition, I just saw the fun of a full brood of Genestealers tripping over their own claws and hooves and, because of their greater independence from the Hive Mind, argue over which morsel looks the tastiest, all the while forgetting to even try and get there in the first place. Would I have liked to see the now returned Movement stat to have mattered? Yes, of course. Will it never? I don't know, but there is a chance, through customer feedback, that this full randomness might only last a year. Or two.

Numarines? I am excited about these, actually. They move the story forward. There is a new player in town, who actually got to see his 'father' get things done. It isn't such a giant leap for my brain to accept that Robby G might still remember OldMarines that weren't genetically degenerated so they could no longer use their Betcher's Gland to spit acid and burn ropes and other bonds. He might have seen his scouts crack open an Ork's skull, devouring brain matter and due to the Omophagea 'learn' or 'remember' the location of the Ork camps and the strength of their forces. No Red Thirst, no Canis Helix, but nineteen fully operational implants. Would I like to see these new models replace the old ones? No, of course not. But my guess is, that they will become a separate elite choice, something any chapter can take one or two of as 'reinforcements'. it also opens up the possibility to start all over again, with a new chapter of your own creation, with nice fluff about it having been lost and now reconstructed, but only better. Besides, in friendly games especially, who is going to stop you from contacting your gaming friends and saying you want to play a game of Warhammer 39K, where you play without publicized named characters (even those that would have been around at that time) and any of that new stuff that only now starts appearing in both lore and miniature form?

Loss of templates? No big deal. While I did enjoy the occasional placement, and counting models hit, and accounting for scatter, I would not miss, nor enjoy, long drawn arguements about whether or not I have moved the template in the correct angle as indicated by the scatter die, thus possibly missing my own little plastic dudes there. "But a random die roll to see how many models are hit is yet another random die roll!" Yep, you're right. So is a scatter die roll, but then with three dice instead of one, or maybe two (we still don't know what the difference will be between a blast marker and a large blast marker in the new system, which I might guess to be 1d6 hits and 2d6 hits respectively). "But now my one Dreadnought might be hit 6 times from a flamer/blast marker (or even 12 times from a large blast, still just guessing)". indeed. But remember, that Dreadnought is a very big target. It has two weaponized arms, two stout legs, and a big torso on top of a tiny waist/hip section. That's six locations to be hit. Now imagine that blast top be super hot, a true explosion where heat, shockwave, and shrapnel conspire to not just hit that dreadnought, but also fry rubber wire tubes, penetrate drive systems, and do whatever damage it will do to all those insides. That's six hit locations on the outside, but also six locations on the inside, for a total of 12 possible locations to destroy something vital. This is, of course, ut a simple example of how one can right wrongs, or just extrapolate from what very little info we actually have on some matters such as the weapons (four profiles, one of which shows that the flamer template will no longer be used). I think I will just wait and see. What I have seen up till now, still gets me excited.

Cover adding to the Armour Saving Throw? I will admit that I would have liked cover to detract from the firer's Ballistic Skill. In my opinion, all stuff that makes you harder to be hit, such as not being completely visible due to standing behind a bush or peering around a corner, should lower your chances of being hit, and therefor affect the attack rolls. Stuff that makes you harder to drop, such as Nurgle marks, extra armour, combat drugs, etc., now that might affect your chances of survival, and through that, your Toughness value or your Armour Saving Throw. But again, once we have the full rules in our hands, we might see nuances that aren't visible right now. And those nuances might be things that make or break our perception of what little rules snippets we have seen now. And who knows, perhaps GW gets so much constructive feedback from people all over the world, that their yearly update of the rules might even change the cover rule from an Armour Saving Throw bonus to a Ballistic Skill penalty again. For that matter, I wonder what they'll do to the rules for Camo Cloaks and the likes?

Weapon Skill hitting on a specific target number? Sure, why not. Ballistic Skill has done so from the very beginning. It had fixed to hit numbers and modifiers way back in Rogue Trader, and it gets modifiers in 8th. With all the rules snippets we have seen, there isn't a single modifier to to hit rolls in combat, but this might just as well be on a model-by-model basis. Perhaps the Howling banshee masks will cause opponents a -2 or -3 to hit in melee and the banshees wail. Perhaps the Harlequins might have a special rule replacing their invulnerable save with a modifier to the opponent's ability to attack. Though I find the table (and the underlying base calculation) for rolling to hit in melee easy to remember, it is just as easy to see a number on a dataslate/warscroll/datasheet/whatchamacallin'it. Like I said above about cover, I think a defensive ability such as "Dodge 1; subtract 1 from your opponent's to hit rolls in melee against a model with this rule" is quite viable. You might even change it into "Dodge 3; subtract 3........" for real close combat monsters such as Lelith Hesperax or The Swarmlord that now has a close combat invulnerable save due to his Bonesabers. We will just have to wait and see.

Thanks for that ...
I always enjoy reading your posts.
Always thoughtful, and respectful.
I especially appreciate your optimism re changing from random charge distances after constructive criticism in a year.
That helps assuage my anxiety.
What about multiple overwatch shooting? Hitting on 6s across the board, as seems to have been clearly indicated?
I suspect that the trouble is that none of the play testers (mostly tourney types from what I could see) were playing during the early days of Overwatch counters.
This and charge distances, and the 1" bubble, these are the big problems.
The loss of templates - OK, let's see how it goes.
The rest, numarines and so on, yes, OK - sigmarines it is then, we all were expecting as much since all the AoSifying 40k talk started.
Vehicles without AV - OK, I can see the upside, let's see how it goes.
Some of the changes are positive out of the box, too - pistols, for example, seem like they are being handled better.
And I have hope that psychic and warlord stuff will no longer be random, but rather paid for in points.
Anyways, thanks for the well reasoned and encouraging post.
Bravo.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Elbows wrote:
Started off good...rapidly going in the opposite direction.

Exactly.

 Talizvar wrote:

 Galas wrote:
I'm really excited for playing with my soon to be stunted Dark Angels Armie in comparasion with the new Numarines.
I will rename then as Space Gobbos

Where do you think the "Watchers in the Dark" came from?
Marines from a long forgotten scale update.

Sir, you have open my eyes. Exalted.

 jeff white wrote:

 Rippy wrote:
I am punch as drunk excited!

As someone who prefers assault, the game would be too broken without overwatch and random assault.

As long as overwatch can't be modified below 6+ that is.

Another factor is the potential to charge out of transports, we need this information to be solid.

Did you ever play under the rules that Overwatch must be declared during the player's turn and taken in lieu of shooting,
with the unit sitting in wait for a threat to cross its field of view?
Much better mechanic, imo...

Yeah that does sound good jeff, but then in its current iteration it sounds too weak for 8th edition. Maybe if you chose overwatch instead of shooting, but then had full ballistic skill?

 Rippy wrote:

 jeff white wrote:

 Rippy wrote:
I am punch as drunk excited!

As someone who prefers assault, the game would be too broken without overwatch and random assault.

As long as overwatch can't be modified below 6+ that is.

Another factor is the potential to charge out of transports, we need this information to be solid.

Did you ever play under the rules that Overwatch must be declared during the player's turn and taken in lieu of shooting,
with the unit sitting in wait for a threat to cross its field of view?
Much better mechanic, imo...

Yeah that does sound good jeff, but then in its current iteration it sounds too weak for 8th edition. Maybe if you chose overwatch instead of shooting, but then had full ballistic skill?

That is how it worked, if recall correctly with a -1 to hit modifier for OW shooting that could have been removed...

 Talamare wrote:

 blackmage wrote:
problem is... who trust gw still, after the disaster they did with 7th? i m not one who trust them, gw is always highly capable to destroy anything they touch...

Really? I felt 7th was pretty good. 6th was the garbage one.

if you think 7th was pretty good you should change your pusher quickly....

 blackmage wrote:

 Talamare wrote:

 blackmage wrote:
problem is... who trust gw still, after the disaster they did with 7th? i m not one who trust them, gw is always highly capable to destroy anything they touch...

Really? I felt 7th was pretty good. 6th was the garbage one.

if you think 7th was pretty good you should change your pusher quickly....

Umm what? What does it matter if someone enjoys playing 7th? I liked this editions core rules, they were fun, the problem was the power bloat on everything new coming in (especially Eldar)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
"Here's a great set of rules! Now here is your faction's special rules which lets you ignore them all!!"

Cautiously optimistic.

As usual, I'll pretty much have to echo Vaktathi. Some reasonable changes so far, and I'm loving that the tournament community was actually engaged in the design and testing process. I don't much care for anything other than matched play (or the narrative one if it comes with awesome campaign rules that can work with matched points), and I'll have to wait and see what the Guard 'codex' will look like.

But the Marines+ seems like a poor addition. I'll wait and see before I judge too harshly, but I can't say I'm excited for more power armour.

I loathe the term "Numarines" cuz it sounds jarring to me. (I call them Ultra Marines instead. Made by ultramarines, but +1. Whatever.)

I'm keenish for the new edition, though I'm not keen anymore for Death Guard. Thought they'd be out by now or pre-orders by this week, so I'm gonna go with Dark Eldar and pick up the Gangs box, SC! and the troops+transport box to kick it off.

It sounds like charging isn't going to be too much of an issue if movement is faster- you maneuver to within say 7" then attempt a charge. Sure, overwatch is still a thing but I'm liking the look of the changes so far. Gonna miss the templates but I get why they need to go.

 SpinCycleDreadnought wrote:
I loathe the term "Numarines" cuz it sounds jarring to me. (I call them Ultra Marines instead. Made by ultramarines, but +1. Whatever.)

I loathe nu-marines too, mainly because someone on 4chan said I have a nu-male haircut I don't really know what that means, but I don't like it!

 SpinCycleDreadnought wrote:
I'm keenish for the new edition, though I'm not keen anymore for Death Guard. Thought they'd be out by now or pre-orders by this week.

>being this impatient
I don't think the Slow Advance of the Death Guard suits you!! (TIC)

I am entirely excited. This edition looks the most reasonable since 5th.

I'm very excited. With voluntary withdrawal from CC and slightly buffed Overwatch, my Tau can finally perform the sort of Kauyon maneuvers that I've always wanted them to be able to do.