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Dakka Veteran





Also everyone seems to forget, there will be MULTIPLE weapons that do D6 wounds. Melta migh be even better than d6! Also they are introducing the MORTAL WOUND concept.

How can you listen to gw say "everything will kill/die a lot faster!" , read the rules, then watch gw up wounds to 18 and not see why.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 CrownAxe wrote:
Pancakey wrote:
Always wound on 6 totally changes the way units interact.

Yeah its like how all of those FMC die all the time while swooping becauase everything hits them on a 6 and they only have 4-5 wounds

oh wait
.

Oh wait. Everything wounds on 6's. Oh. Wait.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/07 16:55:13


 
   
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Norfolk, VA

It does change how they interact some, but i would not waste 300 lasgun shots to try to take down a Morkanaut when they will be way more effective against other units. Yes some things weren't able to damage others before, but then again even if it could most of the time we didn't rely on the 6's wounding in the previous edition much, unless it has an instant death mechanic. Tell me the last time you saw 7 squads of Guardsmen in double tap range focusing on a single Daemon Prince (without upgrades besides armor) instead of the daemons around them that are easier to kill. It mattered mostly when it worked with vehicles with low HP, but now that has been mitigated.

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Pancakey wrote:
Also everyone seems to forget, there will be MULTIPLE weapons that do D6 wounds. Melta migh be even better than d6! Also they are introducing the MORTAL WOUND concept.

How can you listen to gw say "everything will kill/die a lot faster!" , read the rules, then watch gw up wounds to 18 and not see why.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 CrownAxe wrote:
Pancakey wrote:
Always wound on 6 totally changes the way units interact.

Yeah its like how all of those FMC die all the time while swooping becauase everything hits them on a 6 and they only have 4-5 wounds

oh wait
.

Oh wait. Everything wounds on 6's. Oh. Wait.

It doesn't change how the math works. Hitting on 6s and wounding 4s has the same effect as hitting on 4s and wounding on 6s
   
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Math aside. It will now be possible for a grot to kill an imperial knight.
   
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 Vitali Advenil wrote:
Pancakey wrote:
Always wound on 6 totally changes the way units interact.


I just proved that it would take more than 200 bolter marines to take down the naut. People aren't going to go naut hunting with squads of marines, that's just stupid. Anyone who charges a bunch of tac marines at a naut thinking they can hurt it with bolter fire clearly don't know how to play the game. It won't change anything. People are still going to prioritize shooting heavy weapons at heavy things because it's the most efficient way to kill it.


It's not that you are going to kill them fully with bolters. It's that you can even cause couple wounds and destroy them that way is completely silly. You simply cannot penetrate armour of that kind of vehicle with lasgun, bolter, autogun etc.

Go ahead and try to stop M1A2 abrams with AK-47. They won't even bother to kill you for a long time as you pose zero threat. Irrelevant whether you shoot them second or 1000 years you ain't going to cause a dent.

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Pancakey wrote:
Math aside. It will now be possible for a grot to kill an imperial knight.

And ?

I fail to see the issue with this

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/07 17:22:05


 
   
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Blood-Raging Khorne Berserker





I'm both excited for ork players getting to use their m/gorkanaughts, but vey afraid for my nids. They will have (likely tfex and tervigon) approaching 12 wounds. Which probably means 10 or 11. Which means one or two decent rolls on dmg from lascannon/melta means dead bug. Because I have no expectation of TMC toughness going up.

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I'm excited. Vehicles and the like will be usefully again
   
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Mutilatin' Mad Dok





Georgia

Pancakey wrote:
Also everyone seems to forget, there will be MULTIPLE weapons that do D6 wounds. Melta migh be even better than d6! Also they are introducing the MORTAL WOUND concept.

How can you listen to gw say "everything will kill/die a lot faster!" , read the rules, then watch gw up wounds to 18 and not see why.



Yes, and those weapons are supposed to do more damage to vehicles. I don't understand what you want. Do you just want an invincible morkanaut? Are you seriously complaining that someone can kill your vehicle with a weapon that is designed to kill vehicles?

Also, sure, a grot could kill a knight on an extremely lucky shot, but only after every other wound has been taken off the night which will still require a lot of anti-tank rounds. You're acting like this is going to make vehicles even more fragile than before.

"The undead ogre believes the sack of pies is your parrot, and proceeds to eat them. The pies explode, and so does his head. The way is clear." - Me, DMing what was supposed to be a serious Pathfinder campaign.

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Pancakey wrote:
While 18 wounds seems like a lot, the ability to do damage in the new edition will make you wish the gork had 30 wounds.


Well either you just broke an NDA or you have no idea if that's true or not.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
StarHunter25 wrote:
I'm both excited for ork players getting to use their m/gorkanaughts, but vey afraid for my nids. They will have (likely tfex and tervigon) approaching 12 wounds. Which probably means 10 or 11. Which means one or two decent rolls on dmg from lascannon/melta means dead bug. Because I have no expectation of TMC toughness going up.


You mean 2 PERFECT rolls on lascannons. You have a 1/36 chance of rolling 2 6s on 2 dice and that's after to hit, to wound, and saves. Statistical average is what, 9 shots? 2 dev squads and change. Doesn't seem too unfair.

Don't let yourself fall into the worst case scenario trap.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/07 17:45:49


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 oldzoggy wrote:
So GW ave us the new stat line.M8 W18 T8 Sv3+, we still have no point cost nor any special rules but we do have some weapon profiles.
Just how durable do we expect them to be and is this M8 enough or are they still too slow ?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Morkanaut rules stats are here -> https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/07/new-warhammer-40000-big-stuff-may7gw-homepage-post-4/

Weapon profiles are here -> https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/04/26/warhammer-40000-weaponsgw-homepage-post-4/



I was posting in reply to the thread. No I do think they will fare well.

Reason#1 - not enough wounds
Reason#2 - fixed to hit rolls
Reason#3 - every weapon wounds on 6

NDA? come at me bro!

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/05/07 17:50:41


 
   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins




tneva82 wrote:
 Vitali Advenil wrote:
Pancakey wrote:
Always wound on 6 totally changes the way units interact.


I just proved that it would take more than 200 bolter marines to take down the naut. People aren't going to go naut hunting with squads of marines, that's just stupid. Anyone who charges a bunch of tac marines at a naut thinking they can hurt it with bolter fire clearly don't know how to play the game. It won't change anything. People are still going to prioritize shooting heavy weapons at heavy things because it's the most efficient way to kill it.


It's not that you are going to kill them fully with bolters. It's that you can even cause couple wounds and destroy them that way is completely silly. You simply cannot penetrate armour of that kind of vehicle with lasgun, bolter, autogun etc.

Go ahead and try to stop M1A2 abrams with AK-47. They won't even bother to kill you for a long time as you pose zero threat. Irrelevant whether you shoot them second or 1000 years you ain't going to cause a dent.


but punching them to death was okay? You only have to be S7 to be able to hurt a knight. Or S1 if you had armourbane and rolled boxcars.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Pancakey wrote:
 oldzoggy wrote:
So GW ave us the new stat line.M8 W18 T8 Sv3+, we still have no point cost nor any special rules but we do have some weapon profiles.
Just how durable do we expect them to be and is this M8 enough or are they still too slow ?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Morkanaut rules stats are here -> https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/07/new-warhammer-40000-big-stuff-may7gw-homepage-post-4/

Weapon profiles are here -> https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/04/26/warhammer-40000-weaponsgw-homepage-post-4/



I was posting in reply to the thread. No I do think they will fare well.

Reason#1 - not enough wounds
Reason#2 - fixed to hit rolls
Reason#3 - every weapon wounds on 6

NDA? com at me bro!


1 how do you know? 2. wat? 3. So?

Just about every weapon in the game wounds a riptide and just about every model in the game hits a riptide on a 3+ and they only have 6 wounds; yet you don't see people talking about how fragile and weak a riptide is do you?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/07 17:52:39


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Just about is not the same as all.
   
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Pancakey wrote:
Just about is not the same as all.
in order to not be able to wound t6 you need to be s2. How many s2 weapons are there?
   
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A forest

 Vitali Advenil wrote:
Pancakey wrote:
Also everyone seems to forget, there will be MULTIPLE weapons that do D6 wounds. Melta migh be even better than d6! Also they are introducing the MORTAL WOUND concept.

How can you listen to gw say "everything will kill/die a lot faster!" , read the rules, then watch gw up wounds to 18 and not see why.



Yes, and those weapons are supposed to do more damage to vehicles. I don't understand what you want. Do you just want an invincible morkanaut? Are you seriously complaining that someone can kill your vehicle with a weapon that is designed to kill vehicles?

Also, sure, a grot could kill a knight on an extremely lucky shot, but only after every other wound has been taken off the night which will still require a lot of anti-tank rounds. You're acting like this is going to make vehicles even more fragile than before.


Yeah I don't understand why some people are upset. Do people want to be able to kill all vehicles easily with small arms fire?
   
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 CrownAxe wrote:
Pancakey wrote:
Just about is not the same as all.
in order to not be able to wound t6 you need to be s2. How many s2 weapons are there?

That's actually an excellent question.

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If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
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Pancakey wrote:
Just about is not the same as all.


Oh i'm sorry a grot in melee. So 1, let me rephrase; Every weapon in the game except for 1 wounds a riptide and you don't see people complaining about how frail and fragile riptides are do you?

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Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 CrownAxe wrote:
Pancakey wrote:
Just about is not the same as all.
in order to not be able to wound t6 you need to be s2. How many s2 weapons are there?

That's actually an excellent question.


Well, the bubblechucka is S2 if you roll a 2 for the D6, and grots are S2 in CC.

"The undead ogre believes the sack of pies is your parrot, and proceeds to eat them. The pies explode, and so does his head. The way is clear." - Me, DMing what was supposed to be a serious Pathfinder campaign.

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Flechette blasters. S2, 5 shots, with Shred.

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Why Aye Ya Canny Dakkanaughts!

 Vitali Advenil wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 CrownAxe wrote:
Pancakey wrote:
Just about is not the same as all.
in order to not be able to wound t6 you need to be s2. How many s2 weapons are there?

That's actually an excellent question.


Well, the bubblechucka is S2 if you roll a 2 for the D6, and grots are S2 in CC.

I suppose this would mean that Pink Horrors, Blue Horrors and Brimstones would be able to throw psychic bs at a big monster and then still be able to do a couple more wounds in cc... Before being stomped to death, splitting and repeat.

Ghorros wrote:
The moral of the story: Don't park your Imperial Knight in a field of Gretchin carrying power tools.
 Marmatag wrote:
All the while, my opponent is furious, throwing his codex on the floor, trying to slash his wrists with safety scissors.
"It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so f***ing what." - Stephen Fry
 
   
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 JNAProductions wrote:
Flechette blasters. S2, 5 shots, with Shred.


Funnily enough they come on a unit that could potentially wreck a riptide in CC.

But the point still stands. Just because you can wound it on a 6 doesn't mean it's suddenly made of paper.

"The undead ogre believes the sack of pies is your parrot, and proceeds to eat them. The pies explode, and so does his head. The way is clear." - Me, DMing what was supposed to be a serious Pathfinder campaign.

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Longtime Dakkanaut




Wish they had actually just repeated the whole stat line as they seem to in AoS for the different steps.

WHFB suffered when they brought in "a six wounds anything" because they didn't up the number of wounds, here glad to see it as they have upped the number, if you get truly desperate you have an option, who knows maybe the dice gods will smile this one time, but otherwise don't worry.

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Isn't the Morkanaut the Ranged/Quirky version? I'm more curious how speedy the Gorkanaut will be.
   
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 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Isn't the Morkanaut the Ranged/Quirky version? I'm more curious how speedy the Gorkanaut will be.


Probably the same statline.

   
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Didn't the vehicle damage chart in older editions have a chance to destroy the vehicles on a glancing hit? My only source is TSOALR, so obviously not reliable :V but I don't think the concept of a tank getting destoryed by small arms fires is new to 40k.

For the morkanut itself, seeing it have M 8 does make me think that GW is going to make an effort to make each stat line it's own thing, rather than just lazily porting stuff over to this new system. and 18 wounds? Dang, sounds like I could actually get a 'naugt into melee now.

I think it also confirms orks will have WS +3, which was something I was worried about that we'd get stuck with 4+ to make the space marines more special.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/05/07 19:57:16


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Pancakey wrote:
Always wound on 6 totally changes the way units interact. Also everyone seems to forget, there will be MULTIPLE weapons that do D6 wounds. Melta migh be even better than d6! Also they are introducing the MORTAL WOUND concept.

How can you listen to gw say "everything will kill/die a lot faster!" , read the rules, then watch gw up wounds to 18 and not see why.


Yeah, they will be so much easier to kill now that they can't be one-shot by scatter lasers

 
   
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Armageddon

Even if there are a lot of multiple damage weapons and the 'always wounds on 6' rule, we still have no idea what other special rules there are, how the actual game plays out, and how long in general the naut actual survives on the battlefield with all these variables and rules.

Bottom line is we don't know. These are only previews that we shouldn't make rash judgements on.

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Pancakey wrote:
Math aside. It will now be possible for a grot to kill an imperial knight.


Yeah. It's totally unrealistic that a grot could wriggle in to a battle-damaged hole and gleefully begin tearing out wiring.

Why, it would only take... Lessee... Hitting on 4s, wounding on 6s, 3+ save... 36 Gretchin in 12 inches to cause a single wound.

There are 20 wounds for an Imperial Knight as they said, so a mere 720 Gretchin packed in like sardines within 12 inches shooting at it..

Lessee... Gretchin are 1 square inch in diameter with the base, so assuming the Gretchin are over top of the Knight and circled all the way around mashed together in a dome over the Imperial Knight, you could fit roughly 18^2 Gretchin within 12 inches of the Knight, or roughly 324 Gretchin.

So it takes 3 rounds of concentrated damage by an Imperial Knight literally swarmed by Gretchin like bees in a dome shape as closely packed as possible within range. And the Knight can't move or shoot in that time for the Gretchin to be able to take it down.

So here is how I would explain it:

Imperial Knight commander goes for a coffee and leaves his Knight in the middle of a field of literally nothing but Gretchin. They all swear that they won't touch his Knight and it'll be safe. He wanders off for a few minutes while literally hundreds of Gretchin swarm the thing with hammers, drills and screwdrivers.

Imperial Knight commander comes back to see his Knight has been robbed like a rich man's car left alone in Compton.

The moral of the story: Don't park your Imperial Knight in a field of Gretchin carrying power tools.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/07 21:17:05


 
   
Made in gb
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Why Aye Ya Canny Dakkanaughts!

Ghorros wrote:
The moral of the story: Don't park your Imperial Knight in a field of Gretchin carrying power tools.

Exalted and quoted!

Ghorros wrote:
The moral of the story: Don't park your Imperial Knight in a field of Gretchin carrying power tools.
 Marmatag wrote:
All the while, my opponent is furious, throwing his codex on the floor, trying to slash his wrists with safety scissors.
"It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so f***ing what." - Stephen Fry
 
   
Made in us
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Pancakey wrote:
 oldzoggy wrote:
So GW ave us the new stat line.M8 W18 T8 Sv3+, we still have no point cost nor any special rules but we do have some weapon profiles.
Just how durable do we expect them to be and is this M8 enough or are they still too slow ?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Morkanaut rules stats are here -> https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/07/new-warhammer-40000-big-stuff-may7gw-homepage-post-4/

Weapon profiles are here -> https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/04/26/warhammer-40000-weaponsgw-homepage-post-4/



I was posting in reply to the thread. No I do think they will fare well.

Reason#1 - not enough wounds
Reason#2 - fixed to hit rolls
Reason#3 - every weapon wounds on 6

NDA? come at me bro!


Rolls to hit were always fixed. They are exactly the same. Are you sure you're on the forums for the right game?

 
   
 
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