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 megatrons2nd wrote:
Carmen needs to let his dream die, along with ours of getting RRT wave 2 stuff. He will never be a wild success with his endeavor because of the weight he's trying to bring with it.

Association with Palladium is actually one of the lesser issues he's dealing with. His Kickstarter was laughably half-baked. No videos of gameplay, no reviews, shoddy photography, zero useful information, badly priced game and add-ons ($5 one piece plastic minis?), no board for his boardgame, no rules to show off. It was amateur hour.

So... is it me, or do those new Primaris marines inceptors kinda sorta look like wingless SAMAS?


Because they kinda do ^^ (well, better designed ones, I'd say, but still).

Yup, they do.. but I'd argue that the chunky legs make it look more like the Predator personally but I see the resemblance to both.

 warboss wrote:
Yup, they do.. but I'd argue that the chunky legs make it look more like the Predator personally but I see the resemblance to both.

You're right, but I didn't know that one ^^

No worries. It's almost as old as it's from the very first splat book (the sourcebook) for rifts released after the original core rulebook. I can't verify though whether or not it got an ugly revision in the last 15 years like the SAMAS did once they got rid of their good artists at Palladium.

There's only so many ways you can present an armored, jet-packed person. SAMAS were more about horizontal thrust with wings for lift, the Primaris Marines look like they're for Rocketeering around, using their body for lift/braking.

 Albertorius wrote:
So... is it me, or do those new Primaris marines inceptors kinda sorta look like wingless SAMAS?

Spoiler:

Because they kinda do ^^ (well, better designed ones, I'd say, but still).

Look at those clear flight-stands. If they were in a mouth-wateringly(tm) epic(tm) solid plastic color like say tan or gray, I'd almost think they came from somewhere else.

 John Prins wrote:
There's only so many ways you can present an armored, jet-packed person. SAMAS were more about horizontal thrust with wings for lift, the Primaris Marines look like they're for Rocketeering around, using their body for lift/braking.

dunno, the more I look at them, the less they seem similar to regular 40k jet troopers and the more they remind me the above designs:


They even appear to have leg thrusters they could use to stop ^^

This is the image I associate with SAMAS, and the Primaris assault look nothing like that to me.

It's like saying they look like Clan Toads from Battletech, honestly.

It's not so much the actual looks as the design cues, tbh. Reading the 40k news thread, it appears that more people has got the same idea, so there's probably something to it?

I mean, they specifically call it "SAMAS Space Marines", so...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJMGeRfurG0

Dice Tower just did a video on "Things Designers Need to STOP Doing" and Rifts Board game designers need to stop.
Here are a few points Dice Tower mentioned that hit home with Rifts BG.

Poor Artwork / Layout - Poor presentation can be very off putting to customers.
The cards and boards they showed were very cluttered, look at other games like it and changing the layout for the better

Working backwards - Having Miniatures, then try to force a game for them.
The game seems to be made for the miniatures, not a game that uses miniatures.

Only play-testing with a Echo chamber - no one sees the game until its released.
Have other people try the game outside of your personal group. If they can not figure out the game with the instruction manual that is a big problem.

Holding back main components for expansions
When everyone saw the preview Glitter boy miniature most said it was a nice figure and a reason to get the game.. Then we found out it wasn't included
in the game and was a $30 add on.

Don't Start a Gaming Company
You can not be a Game producer and a Game Designer, There is a ton of things behind the scenes that need to be done. And it has nothing to do
with designing the game.. Manufacturing, Shipping, Editing..

I am sure this list could go longer.. but i just thought it was very funny they made a video that mentioned so many of their issues.

Carmen just sent out an update about the relaunch: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/rogueheroes/rifts-board-game/posts/1896578

The game will be relaunched for the simple reason that Carmen can't afford for it to fail. He has sunk $40,000 of his own money into it (even worse for him if that's in USD) and, right or wrong, his suicide attempt will have a negative effect on his career. I don't know the man's personal finances but I also don't know of too many people in his line of work who can just eat a $40,000 loss.

As someone else mentioned I would not be surprised if his license is strictly for a "board game", it might not be possible for him to launch a campaign just for miniatures but even if it was I don't think Carmen would go that route. Whatever the shortcomings and shenanigans he seems to really be passionate about creating a Rifts board game.

Personally I think the "Palladium shell corporation" thing is a bit overblown. It makes sense to set up an LLC in the US, it doesn't make sense to set it up in Florida just because Palladium also happens to be in the closest metropolitan area across the border. There is nothing Carmen can do to distance himself "enough" from Palladium in the eyes of those with an ax to grind. I'm sure the licensing agreement allows Kevin to retain quite a bit of control over the final product but I doubt he's going to pocket any of the money from the KS campaign (other than getting paid for whatever Palladium books people get as add-ons). Granted it would help if the collaborators list on the campaign wasn't full of Palladium employees but no one outside of the RRT debacle is going to make that connection.

Of course that was the biggest problem with the campaign, Carmen expected fan-friends to insta-fund it and as a result he made no attempt to draw in people unfamiliar with Rifts and had no contingency plan for when it became apparent the project was in trouble. The campaign was obviously not ready in any sense. The presentation was trash, the stretch goals were a dumpster fire and communication was atrocious, bordering on negligent. If Carmen is serious about this succeeding he needs bring in professionals to help run this campaign. He needs someone in charge of graphic design for the campaign page and he needs someone with PR experience to handle to comments section. He also needs to do a TON more research about how to use add-ons and stretch goals effectively (hint: don't offer a miniature add-on that's going to run you thousands of dollars just for the molds when you have 600 backers).

He also needs to get someone other then he and Wyll to do the videos. I'm sorry but two middle aged, obese men with no personality, one of whom barely makes a sound other then grunting, playing on a kitchen table is not going to hook potential backers.

Kevin & Co will get licensing and/or royalties, at the least. As desperate as that jackal is for money, I'm sure it's a fair hunk of cash.

Sadly, I think Carmen suffers from the same overall faults that plagues PB. Easily excited, but quick to drop out of the game when the real work needs to begin. Notice there was no time frame on when a new KS might come out? Also notice the 19 day delay between announcing the KS was cancelled the "we're working on it" Kevinsque update?

I don't think we'll actually see the KS again - and if we somehow do, it will be plagued with the same problems as the previous one, if not inundated with OVERBLOWN promises of too many minis to count.

Screw the boardgame and make it a big line of figures for use with either of the RPG games. There are already too many boardgames on the market in the same niche.

Glitterboys in different poses with alternate weapons for their off hand, DB's would also be great as nearly all of the main ones have no really good analogues from other companies, etc. Hell, even the smaller Robot Armor would be really cool.

 Stormonu wrote:
Kevin & Co will get licensing and/or royalties, at the least. As desperate as that jackal is for money, I'm sure it's a fair hunk of cash.

Sadly, I think Carmen suffers from the same overall faults that plagues PB. Easily excited, but quick to drop out of the game when the real work needs to begin. Notice there was no time frame on when a new KS might come out? Also notice the 19 day delay between announcing the KS was cancelled the "we're working on it" Kevinsque update?

I don't think we'll actually see the KS again - and if we somehow do, it will be plagued with the same problems as the previous one, if not inundated with OVERBLOWN promises of too many minis to count.

Yeah Carmen's update did seem reminiscent of one of Kevin's RRT updates

Has Carmen done any update on when this will supposedly manifest? It appears the failed KS page is gone, so I can't check for updates/comments there.

The kickstarter page still works for me although the last update was back in late May. On a peripherally related note, the guy who did the last Rifts board game (iirc that was the one accused of being a talisman clone) as well as sweeping the floor and cleaning the bathroom for Kevin (in addition to his more recent experience) has been rewarded/hired as the day to day business manager/next transit speed bump according to Palladium's weekly newsletter.

This weeks version: http://palladiumbooks.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=915:palladium-booksr-weekly-update-june-16-2017&catid=52:weekly-updates&Itemid=183

His previous Palladium experience: https://palladium-store.com/press/openhousereport2010.html

Kevin is as optimistic as ever that this hiring of yet another fan friend will lead to great things!

A friend sent me a link to some of the updates since this was cancelled; this stuff is basically on their facebook page from a few weeks ago. The info is a bit old so sorry if folks already know but they've now got my favorite power armor from back in the day, the Ulti Max, modelled. I wish they would have had the gun held in both hands but I think it might not be possible due to the chest. As for Robotech, the new guy Scott is paying lip service to updating us but basically just repeating the same things we've heard sporadically from Palladium over the past two years with no end effect. They're waiting for quotes... more info when it's final... and a promise of some throwaway digital product in the near future. I suspect that his tenure at palladium will end shortly after the reboot of the Rifts Board Game and he's just there to temporarily pour a token dixie cup's worth of water of the dumpster fire that is the palladium product schedule.

Damn, those look really good.

If we'd seen stuff like this earlier on that Kickstarter might have had better legs.

Hopefully they will get their ducks all in a row and give it another shot.

Jefffar wrote:
If we'd seen stuff like this earlier on that Kickstarter might have had better legs.

Hopefully they will get their ducks all in a row and give it another shot.

From the sound of it, it doesn't seem like they were ready back when the kickstarter was cancelled. Heck, they didn't even bother to preview the stuff they did have done like the glitterboy at the start because they apparently thought they'd breeze through the fake low goal to the real goal without much effort required on their part (like having a gameplay video for instance). That trend seems to be continuing as they haven't seemingly bothered updating their kickstarter either with this but rather only post it on their facebook safespace (even though I suspect the response would be overwhelmingly postive on kickstarter). You'd think that even the most stubborn game designer would see that his circle of pure fan friend feedback did NOT adequately prepare him for a real crowdfunding effort but I guess not. I can't stand palladium and I think Carmen has absorbed too many bad habits from his mentor but even I think that Ultimax and Coalition Enforcer look cool.

If they ended up with a T-31 as an add on, even my cold and cynical heart might have been warmed enough to pledge.

And I say this as someone who has been actively engaged in PB's bullgak for 3.5 years (the duration of the RRT KS campaign).

That suit served me (well, my character) well for a very, very long time.

 Forar wrote:
If they ended up with a T-31 as an add on, even my cold and cynical heart might have been warmed enough to pledge.

And I say this as someone who has been actively engaged in PB's bullgak for 3.5 years (the duration of the RRT KS campaign).

That suit served me (well, my character) well for a very, very long time.

Some of that stuff interests me.

...whenever it actually exists and I can buy it at a store, that is.

That's probably a better idea.

Thanks for talking me off the ledge there.

Pretty renders, but I've been around the KS bend enough times to know it's really easy to make renders look nice. Computer design and physical production are two different things so it does seem more prudent to wait until at least 3D prints are made. I think we've seen enough companies show flashy renders with heavy detail and then deliver barely recognizable lumps of plastic.

Also, yeah...retail definitely is the thing to wait for unless the cost falls below the "money you'd piss away on a normal night out" threshold.

The problem of power level disparity is going to really rear its ugly head in Carmen's game if he's bringing Glitter Boys, Enforcers and Ultimax to the table. The Rifts board game will turn into Glitter Boys and Combat Borgs vs Enforcers and SAMAS rather than an infantry skirmishing board game.

Whether or not that's desirable is a matter of taste, but when you're putting Ley Line Walkers and Dog Boys and Dead Boys down on the table, they're going to be outclassed, or the big stuff has to be nerfed down to stupid levels.

WOW!! I see no new updates from Carmen. I wonder if there going to be part 2 of this KS. Later

Still no new about this relaunch Kickstarter. Maybe after GenCON.

If I were them I'd roll out some simple skirmish rules and resin models. If that does OK then think about the complications of a board game.

Cause these are nice and (but for the Robotech KS) I'd think about picking them up.

You don't do "simple" if you've trained at the feet of Master Wordsmith and Game Designer Siembieda. You either (claim to) do mouthwatering genre redefining masterpiece or go home.