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Made in us
Dakka Veteran





You can continue to make up whatever you want and twist words to try and prove yourself right. I'm going by what the book states. I've made one error in rules and it doesn't even apply to anything we've been arguing about.

That said, you can continue to pass over information in the book and be wrong. It really just puts you at a disadvantage when it comes to your army. RAW I'm right. The book and wording agrees with me. The whole two page entry on artefacts agrees with me. If they intended it differently they would have separated Endrinworks into their own catagory.

Sisters and Wolves 4000
~4000 points of Skaven
~2000 Kaptain Gitklaw's Grots
~2400 Kharadron Overlords
4x Imperial Knights
 
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






 mmzero252 wrote:
You can continue to make up whatever you want and twist words to try and prove yourself right. I'm going by what the book states. I've made one error in rules and it doesn't even apply to anything we've been arguing about.

That said, you can continue to pass over information in the book and be wrong. It really just puts you at a disadvantage when it comes to your army. RAW I'm right. The book and wording agrees with me. The whole two page entry on artefacts agrees with me. If they intended it differently they would have separated Endrinworks into their own catagory.
This is downright false. I have quoted rules every step of the way and you have gotten them plainly, undeniably wrong even when it is right in front of you. You said duplicate artifacts can't be taken. They can. You said the first thing under artifacts is the endrinwork table. It isn't. You said the description of artifacts for heroes does not call out the two tables on the opposite page. It does. You said that an army doesn't get an extra endrinwork per battalion. It does. This is right there in black and white. The ONLY place an endrinwork is categorized as an "artifact" is in a fluff snippet, and if we want to be that pedantic it is being described as an "artifact" and not an "artifact of power" so from a strict RAW that does not even work. Every argument you have made has been to say I am wrong and only once have you provided a specific piece of evidence to support that they are the same.

It's not even that big a deal wether they are or not, but when you make false claims about the rules, deny it, then make false claims about me in response that pisses me off.

Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page

I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.

I try to view Warhammer as more of a toolbox with examples than fully complete games. 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





I stated my piece and pointed out everything that proves I'm correct. You're pointing out irrelevant and entirely false claims about what I've said and twisting my words to try and discredit me.
As I said before, misread the pages all you want. All it does is put your side at a disadvantage in the long run. I'm done with this argument and your lying.

Sisters and Wolves 4000
~4000 points of Skaven
~2000 Kaptain Gitklaw's Grots
~2400 Kharadron Overlords
4x Imperial Knights
 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
-






-

RULE #1 is BE POLITE.

RULE #2 is STAY ON TOPIC.

If you see a post that you think breaks the rules of the site?

Just report it - do not try to 'fight fire with fire'.

This will be the first and last in thread warning here - from this point forward, it will be warnings and/or suspension...

   
Made in us
Confident Halberdier




Los Angeles, CA

Back to the topic in hand, It seems that until recently Duradin had a theme of being slow but sturdy, Kharadron is kinda breaking that with their playstyle, You think it would blend in well in a Duradin army? like if we had included Fyreslayers or Dispossessed? I'm asking because I'm wondering what to expand on after I get a fleet together, I was going for Free Company because Aesthetically they go well together. But I'm wondering if there is some form of Synergy between the Duradin Factions?
   
Made in gb
Master Engineer with a Brace of Pistols






Spoiler:
 IronDerp wrote:
Back to the topic in hand, It seems that until recently Duradin had a theme of being slow but sturdy, Kharadron is kinda breaking that with their playstyle, You think it would blend in well in a Duradin army? like if we had included Fyreslayers or Dispossessed? I'm asking because I'm wondering what to expand on after I get a fleet together, I was going for Free Company because Aesthetically they go well together. But I'm wondering if there is some form of Synergy between the Duradin Factions?


A multiple Duardin faction army would be pretty cool. I'm no expert but aren't the Fyreslayers more of a foot slogging hoard type army? They seem like they'd be kinda slow. Too slow to keep up with the Overlords. Unless they have some sort of boost I don't know about.

But the dwarf units from the ironweld arsenal would work really well with them. The artillery can hang back with some mortar equipped thunders whilst the gyrocopters can help escort the ships.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





Overlords can be a fairly slow army as well, but seem to be able to break free of the mold by using their skyriggers and skyvessels. But despite their speed, a lot of things the overlords have seem to prefer being charged instead of charging. So it ends up being a game of chicken kind of. You want them to charge your skyvessels. Once they do you follow up with the units you want in combat after.
I feel like having a strong back line of regular duardin could be useful with that style of play. Overlords keeping them distracted and regular guys gunning away.

Edit: Or you could have the big skyvessels stay back and let fyreslayers charge up the board as a distraction. I think it would work out either way.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/21 22:30:16


Sisters and Wolves 4000
~4000 points of Skaven
~2000 Kaptain Gitklaw's Grots
~2400 Kharadron Overlords
4x Imperial Knights
 
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






 IronDerp wrote:
Back to the topic in hand, It seems that until recently Duradin had a theme of being slow but sturdy, Kharadron is kinda breaking that with their playstyle, You think it would blend in well in a Duradin army? like if we had included Fyreslayers or Dispossessed? I'm asking because I'm wondering what to expand on after I get a fleet together, I was going for Free Company because Aesthetically they go well together. But I'm wondering if there is some form of Synergy between the Duradin Factions?
On a theoretical level, yes. The most glaring hole in the Kharadron army is a lack of basic infantry that can line up in front to add numbers, wounds count, and decent melee hitting power. Arkanaught company are generally too expensive for this, and are pretty crummy in melee overall. Skyroggers are solid melee options but are way on the elite/specialist end of things. But both Dispossessed and Fyrelsayers have melee infantry in abundance, with a diverse range going from common to semi-competitive, anvil to hammer.

The problem is in the points. Dispossessed suck right now, their infantry cost way too much. Fyreslayers aren't much better (and the models are way too expensive). Which means the combined arms duardin isn't very good right now. It can make fun lists with some alright synergy, but there isn't any benefit there that's worth breaking allegiance/losing a hurricanum to get.

Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page

I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.

I try to view Warhammer as more of a toolbox with examples than fully complete games. 
   
Made in gb
Master Engineer with a Brace of Pistols






I hope the Fyreslayers get some love from GW soon. A new up to date battletome and a start collecting box would be nice.
   
Made in us
Confident Halberdier




Los Angeles, CA

There's only so much that can be done about half-naked dwarves that nail gold into their arms... Though it would be interesting if Fyreslayers can get something like the old Anvil of Doom... Kinda imagine a Runesmith angrily channeling fire while Honored attendants carry the thing...

That or they have duradin shield bearers... in which the leader is carried by two dwarves on a platform... One of the things I loved about dwarves was how crazy some of the stuff got. Like the Grudgethrower, which was just a rock that was infused with dwarven anger that it would make things easier to hit...

Granted dwarves riding giant flaming salamanders and steampunk dwarves that shoot lasers from their eyes and guns from their mustaches is pretty awesome in itself.
   
Made in gb
Master Engineer with a Brace of Pistols






Spoiler:
 IronDerp wrote:
There's only so much that can be done about half-naked dwarves that nail gold into their arms... Though it would be interesting if Fyreslayers can get something like the old Anvil of Doom... Kinda imagine a Runesmith angrily channeling fire while Honored attendants carry the thing...

That or they have duradin shield bearers... in which the leader is carried by two dwarves on a platform... One of the things I loved about dwarves was how crazy some of the stuff got. Like the Grudgethrower, which was just a rock that was infused with dwarven anger that it would make things easier to hit...

Granted dwarves riding giant flaming salamanders and steampunk dwarves that shoot lasers from their eyes and guns from their mustaches is pretty awesome in itself.


Funny that you should mention the Anvil of Doom, because I think the whole rune smiting thing the Fyreslayers do could be expanded upon. Maybe they could write up a series of runes that function similar to the prayers or spells of other factions, and they're activated by the Runesmiters. This would be in addition to the usual artifacts of power every faction deserves.

Actually, could somebody explain the differences between the Runesmitters and Runemasters? What's the role of each one?
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






Fluff wise a runesmiter is one rank below the runemaster in experience and skill. They also tend to be younger and more combat-oriented in attitude.

Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page

I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.

I try to view Warhammer as more of a toolbox with examples than fully complete games. 
   
Made in us
Confident Halberdier




Los Angeles, CA

And for some reason you lose your Mustache... which is weird... or does the entire priesthood just shave that part off? no wonder the younger ones wear a mask...
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






 IronDerp wrote:
And for some reason you lose your Mustache... which is weird... or does the entire priesthood just shave that part off? no wonder the younger ones wear a mask...
I assume that the facial hair styling is indicative of a common look rather than a universal one. Suffice it to say that runemasters with shaved mustaches were likely once runesmiters with shaved mustaches.

Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page

I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.

I try to view Warhammer as more of a toolbox with examples than fully complete games. 
   
Made in dk
Sneaky Sniper Drone




 mmzero252 wrote:
Plus I don't run any of the battalions because I find Frigates are a terrible unit for their cost. I tend to take Settle The Grudges, Always Take What You Are Owed, and There's No Trading With Some People. For a command trait I've been simply taking Stickler for the Code to also have Surrender is Rarely Profitable.

The combination there allows me to finish off a key unit if I need to, keep a squad of company men alive after a devastating attack, reroll ALL THE MINIGUN 1's EVER, and bring two artifacts for my gunhaulers to have.

It's all been working out fairly well in my experience.


I'm very suprised to hear this. I thought frigates where the most viable of all the skyvessels and the gunhaulers where a really subpar option. Could you tell me how the gunhaulers are working out for you?
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






Gunhaulers are solid because they can absorb wounds for more expensive skyvessels, and because they benefit from the ironclad's AOE vessel buff. Frigates are also solid, but they can seem bad because they aren't particularly good at any one thing. But their flexibility and adaptibility is extremely high, though that comes with a steeper learning curve than most units. Kharadrons in general have a steepish learning curve for that matter, barring someone using mortar/khemist cheese.

Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page

I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.

I try to view Warhammer as more of a toolbox with examples than fully complete games. 
   
Made in gb
Master Engineer with a Brace of Pistols






I suppose it's because frigates sit firmly in the middle. Such units always seem lack lustre. But I still think it's solid.

And are you guys telling me that the guy on the back of the big magma monster is the junior rune smith? I wasn't expecting that.

   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






 Future War Cultist wrote:
I suppose it's because frigates sit firmly in the middle. Such units always seem lack lustre. But I still think it's solid.

And are you guys telling me that the guy on the back of the big magma monster is the junior rune smith? I wasn't expecting that.
For some reason there is no 'Runemaster on Magmadroth' warscroll, even though they exist in the fluff and are even listed as an option to include in a battalion warscroll! I think its because there is no explicit model for it, but GW could easily include instructions for 'converting' (literally assemble exactly like a runesmiter on 'droth but put a runemaster model on top instead) and call it a day. Though the runemaster warscroll needs work anyways, because as-is the ur-gold rule works far more to the enemies' advantage than anything else.

Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page

I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.

I try to view Warhammer as more of a toolbox with examples than fully complete games. 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





 Future War Cultist wrote:
I suppose it's because frigates sit firmly in the middle. Such units always seem lack lustre. But I still think it's solid.

And are you guys telling me that the guy on the back of the big magma monster is the junior rune smith? I wasn't expecting that.



Frigates are an okay distraction for the enemy. I would just prefer to have an extra gunhauler than a frigate. Certainly an ironclad is great too, but it costs a lot more. Frigates just perform fairly terribly when objectives aren't the focus. It's only good for transporting units and 280 points is way too much for that when most games people play around my area are just freeform kill games.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/24 21:23:37


Sisters and Wolves 4000
~4000 points of Skaven
~2000 Kaptain Gitklaw's Grots
~2400 Kharadron Overlords
4x Imperial Knights
 
   
Made in us
Confident Halberdier




Los Angeles, CA

I'm hoping GW expands the Kharadron ships with something like an actual Gunship, using the Frigate as a base and removing the transport capacity in favor of things like a torpedo bay and an full on broadside.

One thing that irks me is that the Endrinmaster costs the same amount of points as the Admiral despite having worse stats and no command ability
   
Made in dk
Sneaky Sniper Drone




 IronDerp wrote:
I'm hoping GW expands the Kharadron ships with something like an actual Gunship, using the Frigate as a base and removing the transport capacity in favor of things like a torpedo bay and an full on broadside.


That would be awesome! Though I doubt that will happen. But like you said they should have made the frigate like a destroyer type of ship. The ironclad as the troop carrier and buffer and the gunhauler as it is, maybe just 20 point cheaper
   
Made in gb
Master Engineer with a Brace of Pistols






We know that ships bigger than ironclads exist. They're just very rare. But they deserve to be included in the game. How do we get forgeworld onto it? They built the tau manta so I think they could handle this.
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






 IronDerp wrote:
I'm hoping GW expands the Kharadron ships with something like an actual Gunship, using the Frigate as a base and removing the transport capacity in favor of things like a torpedo bay and an full on broadside.

One thing that irks me is that the Endrinmaster costs the same amount of points as the Admiral despite having worse stats and no command ability
It's the d3 repair. He also has an extra wound, for some reason.

Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page

I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.

I try to view Warhammer as more of a toolbox with examples than fully complete games. 
   
Made in us
Booming Thunderer





Anybody running Gyrocopters or Gyrobombers with Kharodron Overlords? I kind of like the models and as long as they've got a common paint scheme they should fit in with the sky vessels. Just wondering how well they fit play wise. I'm not a super optimizing kind of player, so they don't need to be top notch, but I don't want to get something that just doesn't really work at all.
   
Made in us
Confident Halberdier




Los Angeles, CA

Well the thing about the Gyrocopters and Gyrobombers is they don't really bring anything useful to the Kharadron nor do they help them out, endrinriggers/skywardens can do the same job but better. It seems fun to include them in a narrative story though,
   
Made in au
Prospector with Steamdrill






australia

You could combine a force of Fyreslayers that utilize magmic tunneling along with Kharadron Overlords. There would be duardin going every which way, all in your opponents deployment zone by turn 2.

AOS
- Kharadron Overlords
- Fyreslayers
- Dispossessed
- Death
- Bloodbound 
   
Made in es
Brutal Black Orc




Barcelona, Spain

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
 IronDerp wrote:
Back to the topic in hand, It seems that until recently Duradin had a theme of being slow but sturdy, Kharadron is kinda breaking that with their playstyle, You think it would blend in well in a Duradin army? like if we had included Fyreslayers or Dispossessed? I'm asking because I'm wondering what to expand on after I get a fleet together, I was going for Free Company because Aesthetically they go well together. But I'm wondering if there is some form of Synergy between the Duradin Factions?
On a theoretical level, yes. The most glaring hole in the Kharadron army is a lack of basic infantry that can line up in front to add numbers, wounds count, and decent melee hitting power. Arkanaught company are generally too expensive for this, and are pretty crummy in melee overall. Skyroggers are solid melee options but are way on the elite/specialist end of things. But both Dispossessed and Fyrelsayers have melee infantry in abundance, with a diverse range going from common to semi-competitive, anvil to hammer.

The problem is in the points. Dispossessed suck right now, their infantry cost way too much. Fyreslayers aren't much better (and the models are way too expensive). Which means the combined arms duardin isn't very good right now. It can make fun lists with some alright synergy, but there isn't any benefit there that's worth breaking allegiance/losing a hurricanum to get.


I think that, should they do a bit of reduction on dwarf warriors, they'd make a nasty combo come GHB II:

-Main battleline masses of dwarf warriors.

-One mob of grundstokk thunderers with a khemyst.

The rest season to test with magmadroths and some fyreslayer meelee goodness.
   
Made in gb
Master Engineer with a Brace of Pistols






Which artifact weapon would you guys recommend for an Admiral? Fluff wise I favour the Hammer of Aethermatic Might but I'm thinking that the Aethershock Bludgeon is better overall.
   
Made in es
Brutal Black Orc




Barcelona, Spain



New stuff for your stunties' lovers.
   
Made in au
Prospector with Steamdrill






australia

cool, when is that coming out?

AOS
- Kharadron Overlords
- Fyreslayers
- Dispossessed
- Death
- Bloodbound 
   
 
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