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 ChazSexington wrote:

Without having played a game, I think 8th will make for bloodier games with a lot less survivors (if that was even possible for anyone bar Necrons in 7th).

I always used to have two-three grots left at the end of the battle. Now there might be one.

 Klowny wrote:

Or they can deepstrike without scatter (granted 9" away) but they need an 8" charge on 2D6, with command points allowing a re roll.

It was confirmed by GW that you need a 9 to get into charge from deepstrike. The way it is worded is that you must be deployed "more than 9" away", meaning 9.0000000001", given the 1" buffer for CC now, that'd still leave you .0000000001" out of range, therefore a 9 is required. Still get a reroll but still, not an 8.

How is everyone pulling off models faster than before? Every weapon in the game just lost most of it's armor penetrating abilities.

Hello, in order to drop Caracas armor completely now you need a lascannon.

Think about that for a bit.

You will have 1/3 guardsmen surviving pulse rifles now AND said rifles (and other strength 5 weapons) now need a 3 to wound.

Lots more shots in some instances, but 6 heavy bolters shots won't kill more than 2 dire avengers on average.

Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:
How is everyone pulling off models faster than before? Every weapon in the game just lost most of it's armor penetrating abilities.

Hello, in order to drop Caracas armor completely now you need a lascannon.

Think about that for a bit.

You will have 1/3 guardsmen surviving pulse rifles now AND said rifles (and other strength 5 weapons) now need a 3 to wound.

Lots more shots in some instances, but 6 heavy bolters shots won't kill more than 2 dire avengers on average.

GW themselves said one of the big reasons the game is so sped up is because everything is more lethal in general, and models will die much faster than before.

Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:
How is everyone pulling off models faster than before? Every weapon in the game just lost most of it's armor penetrating abilities.

That's not true. Against marines with a 3+, most weapons in the game gained armour pen. Any weapon AP4 or higher might as well have been AP - . Now, those weapons will strip off a little armour. So while the values may have dropped a little, the usefulness has gone up by a lot

And psychologically, moving from "your armor works perfectly, or not at all" to "you nearly always get some kind of save" makes a fair bit of difference.

Well... I suppose is time...

It just seems like the best solution is to have an army that isn't all shooty, and isn't all melee.

Put your assault units in front of your shooty units to protect against first turn charges. Yeah they'll get a bonus attack, but you can fall back with your assault units on your turn, and then open fire with a fully surviving force.

I'm not arguing first turn charges aren't inherently very, very strong. I don't see how someone could deny that a first turn charge isn't a powerful thing.

But there are tactical deployment options to reduce the pain.

Of course, we're assuming shooting isn't a total joke. I personally haven't seen any meaningful buffs to shooting armies. Thus far the save mod concept has hurt everything i'd run, from a shooting perspective, in 8th edition, against these horde charge armies.

I think the best way to describe the current feeling is to use the old Orky saying "Chop da shooty wunz, shoot da choppy wunz."

Except for the last few editions its been

"Shoot the choppy wunz, and shoot the shooty wunz too cuz they'll shoot da choppy wunz before they get there"

And now its like

"Don't chop the shooty wunz cuz they'll shoot ya to bitz, and you can't shoot the choppy wunz before they get there. And don't get into a firefight with the shooty wunz cuz they shoot better than you, and don't scrap with the choppy wunz cuz they're choppier than you."



I'd also like to point out I don't think this edition is going to be like the previous ones, where one side will win out on the other. It's not going to be a case of Tau gunlines blowing away a horde of Tyranids with little casualties, or the reverse, a Genestealer horde just ploughing through whole armies of Space Marines. I think bothh shooting and assaults will be super killy and the game will end in either massacre or a few models left on each side.

 Deadshot wrote:
I'd also like to point out I don't think this edition is going to be like the previous ones, where one side will win out on the other. It's not going to be a case of Tau gunlines blowing away a horde of Tyranids with little casualties, or the reverse, a Genestealer horde just ploughing through whole armies of Space Marines. I think bothh shooting and assaults will be super killy and the game will end in either massacre or a few models left on each side.

Which aren't those the best games anyways? Lots of stuff dead on each side and laughs had by all? Nearly every one of my games of Age of Sigmar has ended up like this over th epast few months, and every one has been great fun.

 BunkhouseBuster wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:
I'd also like to point out I don't think this edition is going to be like the previous ones, where one side will win out on the other. It's not going to be a case of Tau gunlines blowing away a horde of Tyranids with little casualties, or the reverse, a Genestealer horde just ploughing through whole armies of Space Marines. I think bothh shooting and assaults will be super killy and the game will end in either massacre or a few models left on each side.

Which aren't those the best games anyways? Lots of stuff dead on each side and laughs had by all? Nearly every one of my games of Age of Sigmar has ended up like this over th epast few months, and every one has been great fun.

I agree, one of my favourite games ever was a 3k a side game between Orks, Nids, Space Marines and more marines. By end of the game there was about 12 marines left on the board from various squads and a few scattered Xenos critters running in terror.

 Lance845 wrote:
I do agree that random charge ranges are BS. We have a M attribute. Everyone could just charge M. In fact, it's easy enough to just house rule that if you are all so inclined. ( I am). I am also inclined to say advance is 1/2 M (rounded up) instead of roll a d6. I think it would work much smoother and cut down all the random crap.

at first I agreed with you. On first impulse I wanted charge to be move+d6 as well. I would hate to see bikers get a 3" charge and the grots next to them get 10" ...seems dumb.


But in previous editions you KNEW that the enemy could run 8" or 12" or 6" or whatever the charge mechanic was for that edition. So you could place your units just outside their charge range. In the heat of the battle most troops would not or should not be able to precisely calculate a safe distance unless it is really far away just to be sure.

So I am TOTALLY against any type of SET charge range.

If totally random charge distance bothers you, then agree with your opponent 4+1d6"

We've already seen that some melee units will​ get into combat faster than even their speed would normally allow, so this just removed some of the random chance.

 admironheart wrote:
But in previous editions you KNEW that the enemy could run 8" or 12" or 6" or whatever the charge mechanic was for that edition. So you could place your units just outside their charge range. In the heat of the battle most troops would not or should not be able to precisely calculate a safe distance unless it is really far away just to be sure.

And yet they're totally capable of figuring out precisely where they need to be to be out of shooting range... If you're going to allow that level of precision for shooting, there is little reason to not also allow it for charging.

I would rather see a charge range that is set by the unit's Movement stat, and have other factors that affect whether or not the enemy unit can just move out of the way (require a Ld test to move if the enemy is within a certain distance, introduce a Suppression mechanic, or bring back 2nd edition-style Overwatch - which would have been particularly cinematic combined with a fixed charge range and casualties from the front...)

I'll believe it when I see it.
Shooting in melee is a thing.
Stepping out of melee and still being able to shoot is a thing.
Being able to kill anything with enough shots regardless of toughness is a thing.
There's still also the matter of cost. Traditionally melee units cost high end specialist prices and are the first things to die in any given game.