Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Luciferian wrote:


-Rhinos more expensive than Razorbacks

An unarmed box with 10 transport capacity is more expensive than an unarmed box with 6 transport capacity. Then you buy the guns.

 BlaxicanX wrote:

 EnTyme wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:

 McGibs wrote:
But then the russ has 3 other heavy weapons

It *can* have three more weapons.

For a price.

And the Predator comes standard with an Autocannon and two Heavy Bolters, needing to pay to upgrade to Lascannons. Your point?

The point is that pre-8th a tri-las predator was 10 points less then a stock BC Russ, and if that ends up being the case again then the Russ is in trouble. If you're still having trouble grasping this, I can try to whip something up in MS Paint for you.

Edit- Also, lel, the stock autocannon+HB sponsons does comparable or better damage then the battlecannon on average to most targets.

Points increases across the board seem pretty promising. The predator has a defacto 27 point increase- extrapolating from that, if lascannons end up costing around 30 points you're looking at a ballpark of 190 for the quad-las configuration.

Okay. So you're assuming points haven't changed . . . for some reason . . . in an edition that was supposedly playtested by multiple outside sources. Got it.

Well, based on the info we have so far, a laserboat predator should be 202 points (102 for the hull, 50 for the twin lascannon turret, 50 for two lascannon sponsons). The 102 hull is particularly interesting because that means that it's impossible to have any Predator variant be 75 points anymore.

Also interesting is the "Predator Autocannon" entry. 49 points for 48" Heavy 2d3 S7 AP-1 D1d3. So, an autocannon variant that fires d3-sized blasts and seems to be associated with the Predator. Stock predator getting bumped up to 151 points in exchange for a bigger stock gun?

So a battle cannon is probably also going to be somewhere around the 50 point range too. That autocannon should have a slightly higher average number of shots (because they have the same max, but 2d3 has a minimum of 2), but the battle cannon has 72" of range, S8, and AP-2 on its side. So overall it'll probably have a slightly higher cost. So a stock LRBT might be around 170-180 points. It'd be gaining a couple points on the hull for its extra toughness and wound, probably a couple points on the battle cannon, and then 10 points for a heavy bolter.

Looks like vehicles in general are getting more expensive, both on the cost of their hull and the cost of their weapons. Land Raiders are already close to their old price of 250 without weapons (generally in the 230-240 range), by the time you've stuck four lascannons and a fistful of heavy bolters on there they'll go rocketing past that.

Especially since heavy weapons seem to be getting bumped up across the board, HBs and lascannons have both seen a 5 point increase, and missile launchers got bumped up to the same price as lascannons (presumably to reflect their similar performance against a majority of targets now, with their dip at T9 being made up for by frag missiles' anti-infantry ability).

Now if only someone would leak the entire Imperial Guard codex, that'd be great. But it does look like they're trying to encourage people to go light on vehicles and heavy on infantry with basic weapons.

For someone who isn't quite in the loop. What do Mortal Wounds do exactly?

 Grey Templar wrote:
For someone who isn't quite in the loop. What do Mortal Wounds do exactly?

Ignores the toughness roll and the saving throws.

 BlaxicanX wrote:

 EnTyme wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:

 McGibs wrote:
But then the russ has 3 other heavy weapons

It *can* have three more weapons.

For a price.

And the Predator comes standard with an Autocannon and two Heavy Bolters, needing to pay to upgrade to Lascannons. Your point?

The point is that pre-8th a tri-las predator was 10 points less then a stock BC Russ, and if that ends up being the case again then the Russ is in trouble. If you're still having trouble grasping this, I can try to whip something up in MS Paint for you.

Edit- Also, lel, the stock autocannon+HB sponsons does comparable or better damage then the battlecannon on average to most targets.

Points increases across the board seem pretty promising. The predator has a defacto 27 point increase- extrapolating from that, if lascannons end up costing around 30 points you're looking at a ballpark of 190 for the quad-las configuration.

I converted a quad lascannon predator from the old GW mail-order landraider conversion kit that they cobbled together before they had an actual land raider model ... Maybe twenty three years ago. Happy to hear that I can play it without waiting for more vehicle design rules to show up in a new white dwarf.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I am happy with the points increases. Infantry are spotlit. The table should also feel bigger with fewer models unless facing hordes which is a good thing... Now if they could just do the terrain cover and unit casualties from shooting right and fix charging then the game would be almost there.

So a librarian Dreadnought is a character with only 8 wounds. Meaning it can hide within units. Hmm :|

Arson Fire wrote:
So a librarian Dreadnought is a character with only 8 wounds. Meaning it can hide within units. Hmm :|

Vehicle keyword.

 Luciferian wrote:

Arson Fire wrote:
So a librarian Dreadnought is a character with only 8 wounds. Meaning it can hide within units. Hmm :|

Vehicle keyword.

Oh. Does that matter?
There has been a lot of info showing up, so maybe I missed it. The panel for characters in the shooting phase section doesn't mention the vehicle keyword, so I figured it would work the same.

Arson Fire wrote:

Oh. Does that matter?
There has been a lot of info showing up, so maybe I missed it. The panel for characters in the shooting phase section doesn't mention the vehicle keyword, so I figured it would work the same.

Hmm, I don't see anything that mentions it either. So it would appear that you can hide the Librarian Dread behind dudes

 Talamare wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
For someone who isn't quite in the loop. What do Mortal Wounds do exactly?

Ignores the toughness roll and the saving throws.

So basically old old D weapons without the instant death bit.

Posted this is news and rumors but this is a better place for it:


Interesting bits from leaks, not sure if mentioned yet:

"Predator Autocannon" has it's own profile - 2D3 shots.

Storm Bolter is Rapid Fire 24, so 4 shots at half range.

Assault Cannon is now Heavy 6. Nice.

Whirlwind Castellan S6 AP0 Heavy 2D6 ouuuuuch

What is a Land Raider Excelsior?

"Imperial Space Marine" Elite choice, 60 points. I think that's the collectible guy. Hah!

Rapid Fire 24? Seems a bit excessive...

 Venerable Ironclad wrote:
I was most interested in the "keep an Apothecary nearby" statement. Does this mean that the Apothecary is no longer tided down to a single unit almost no one takes and will instead be a character that can be used however you see fit.

No saw somewhere in the recent leaks that they will be able heal/res models. Charcters like Apotho will be operate independent.

 Insectum7 wrote:
"Predator Autocannon" has it's own profile - 2D3 shots.

Nice. Too bad my only Pred is all lascannons, but I can always get another at some point, especially if they are good now!

Storm Bolter is Rapid Fire 24, so 4 shots at half range.

Rapid Fire 24?! Holy crap, Termies must be absolutely fearsome now! JK, we all know what you mean. Still an improvement over the current Storm Bolter.

Assault Cannon is now Heavy 6. Nice.

BRRRRRT! I love this one, as I've got a couple of Razorbacks with TL Assault Cannons. 12 shots? Yes please!

Whirlwind Castellan S6 AP0 Heavy 2D6 ouuuuuch

I wonder how much a Whirlwind is going to cost now? Looks like they'll be good at least. I don't think I've ever seen one on a table in 7th.

What is a Land Raider Excelsior?

I think it's one of the Command tanks from that special set they did a while back.

"Imperial Space Marine" Elite choice, 60 points. I think that's the collectible guy. Hah!

Luckily I've got one, but his gun better be pretty damn good or he'd better be a character or something at that price.

This definitely looks like the edition of mass causalities, but I don't have a problem with that so long as it's fast and exciting.

I wouldn't mind rapid fire 24 with my grey knights spam

 JNAProductions wrote:
Rapid Fire 24? Seems a bit excessive...

Haha. Oops. Yes, Rapid Fire 2, 24 inch range.

 ZergSmasher wrote:

I wonder how much a Whirlwind is going to cost now? Looks like they'll be good at least. I don't think I've ever seen one on a table in 7th.

Unless I'm mistaken, The vehicle appears to be 90, and the Castellan Launcher 25. So 115

I had 3 for a few games in 7th, and with buffs they were actually pretty nasty with Rend/Shred/re-roll to hit. But those days are now gone. Now 3 Whirlwinds will be 6D6 shots, which sounds awful for troops in the open.

Freman Bloodglaive wrote:
This definitely looks like the edition of mass causalities, but I don't have a problem with that so long as it's fast and exciting.

Yes. . . but maybe no, depending on terrain. If infantry are not moving in ruins, they get a +2 to their save, and the wound method means even a S6 or S7 weapon only wounds a marine on 3+. So even with an average of 14 shots with the Whirlwind vs. Marines, they still have to hit (9ish), Wound (6ish) and save (on a 2+ in Ruins) so 1 casualty.

Vs. unmoved Guard in Ruins, presumably 9ish hits, 8ish wounds, saving on 3+ so 2-3 dead.

From what's been revealed so far, a Terminator in a Ruin can have a 3+ vs a Lascannon (+2, -3). So "massed casualties" seem pretty preventable if you're playing your cards right. But I'm eager to see how all it shakes out on the table top.