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Made in us
Douglas Bader






First impressions:

PS 5 generic: trash. An additional 2 points gets you Guri and a good pilot ability, and if you're committing to a Starviper you're going to have to be willing to spend some points. I can't think of any situation where I want this in my list.

Dalan Oberos: mediocre at best. It's a neat trick, but at only PS 6 I think he's going to join the list of mid-PS pilots with special maneuvering abilities, all of them crippled by having their special tricks too easily countered by higher-PS ships with repositioning actions. Adding VI only gets you to PS 8, and at the cost of action economy. And when you're taking stress to use his pilot ability you need to be getting some action economy somewhere. A fancy maneuver doesn't help much if your unmodified dice fail to do anything with it.

Thweek: finally, something good. Yeah, he's dead weight against a low-PS swarm (if one ever becomes viable in the current meta), but if your opponent is skewing their list that much to counter Thweek then you've probably already won. Most of the time you're going to have at least a decent pilot ability to copy, and against many lists you're going to get a really powerful one. Alternatively, throw in a decent bid and Thweek guarantees you the ability to have the last activation, great for instantly countering those PS 11 aces. On the downside you do have to choose between having a pilot ability and having the PS to handle repositioning aces. Vader/Dengar/Corran/etc are much less threatening at PS 4 than at PS 8+, and a PS 11 ship is much less scary when it has little or no action economy to prevent you from just turtling up and winning on time. But overall I think he's going to be at least solid, you're getting a lot for 25 points base.

Ion dischargers: trash. It's just way too situational. Unless you're planning to take something that ionizes your own ship you're paying 2 points and a relevant upgrade slot for a card that is literally useless unless your opponent brings one of the few ion threats (none of them very popular in the current meta). So you're pretty much talking about pulsed ray shield, and only when you can manage to get to range 1 of someone and don't want the 1-straight maneuver (something that is often desirable when you don't have it on your dial). And getting more than a minor benefit out of it pretty much requires you to be in a situation where your opponent isn't willing to just take the 1-straight and strip your upgrade. That's a lot of stuff that has to go right, and not an incredibly game-changing effect. I don't see this having much appeal over the raw power of glitterstim.

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in ca
Huge Hierodule






Outflanking

 Peregrine wrote:


Thweek: finally, something good. Yeah, he's dead weight against a low-PS swarm (if one ever becomes viable in the current meta), but if your opponent is skewing their list that much to counter Thweek then you've probably already won. Most of the time you're going to have at least a decent pilot ability to copy, and against many lists you're going to get a really powerful one. Alternatively, throw in a decent bid and Thweek guarantees you the ability to have the last activation, great for instantly countering those PS 11 aces. On the downside you do have to choose between having a pilot ability and having the PS to handle repositioning aces. Vader/Dengar/Corran/etc are much less threatening at PS 4 than at PS 8+, and a PS 11 ship is much less scary when it has little or no action economy to prevent you from just turtling up and winning on time. But overall I think he's going to be at least solid, you're getting a lot for 25 points base.


I think the PS-copying ability will mainly see use to counter the PS10+ guys, in a list based around another ace or two. Idea being that if my opponent barrel rolls/boosts out of Fen Rau's arc, then they aren't going to stack all their tokens. Glitterstims/FCS gives Thweek just enough action economy to threaten an ace that doesn't have a full token load, and may at least force them to be defensive with their one focus token. It exists to counter a counter to my PS9 Aces, and most of the time I will be stealing a pilot ability.

Q: What do you call a Dinosaur Handpuppet?

A: A Maniraptor 
   
Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

Few more previewed today, I'm surprised nobody has beaten me to this!






We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

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Barnstaple Slayers Club 
   
Made in gb
[MOD]
Villanous Scum







Looks those Harpoons are designed to mess with the Biggs/Wookie lists that are top of the rebels at the moment.

On parle toujours mal quand on n'a rien à dire. 
   
Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

Too many moving parts for my taste.

First you need a TL
Second the priority target has to not move into R1/out of R3 before you get the shot
Third you need to land a hit (which is admittedly not too tough on some of the big whales you're likely going after, but if you're against an aces list it'll still be somewhat down to dice.)
Fourth you need another ship to land an uncancelled crit to trigger the condition.

Plus it's all ships at R1 take the splash damage, so you want to try and avoid your own ships being in range too.

If you built a list that focused on exploiting the Harpooned conditioned with supplementary ships that were outfitted to generate crit results I can see it being effective against certain lists, but it would equally struggle against others too much to be considered a viable TAC strategy. Plus 4 points probably isn't overcosted, but it's probably the most I'd want to pay, especially as you're likely wanting to pair it with Extra Munitions at an extra 2pts.

I will qualify this by saying I'm a bit rusty and haven't played in a couple of months, so I may have missed something!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/16 16:30:25


We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club 
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch





Pretty much my take on it too, Ruthlessness more or less did the same, albeit it using up a EPT, and it never really saw play, 4pts for a 4 dice plus maybe some splash damage seems about right but the whole condition idea isn't a fav

The Capt might be passable with bombs and/or feedback array just the PS is a tad low

"AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED." 
   
Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

I'm going to need to ponder Jostero, there's no limit on phase for his ability, which means that if you've a way of reliably triggering it that mitigates the lower PS. It's more the issue that he's going to push 30 points just with a few upgrades and require other ships to be rocking upgrades to facilitate him, possibly over 30 points if you want to give him ordnance to be somewhat self enabling. I'm not sure he's worth that.

We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club 
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut




 Azreal13 wrote:
Too many moving parts for my taste.

First you need a TL
Second the priority target has to not move into R1/out of R3 before you get the shot
Third you need to land a hit (which is admittedly not too tough on some of the big whales you're likely going after, but if you're against an aces list it'll still be somewhat down to dice.)
Fourth you need another ship to land an uncancelled crit to trigger the condition.

Plus it's all ships at R1 take the splash damage, so you want to try and avoid your own ships being in range too.

If you built a list that focused on exploiting the Harpooned conditioned with supplementary ships that were outfitted to generate crit results I can see it being effective against certain lists, but it would equally struggle against others too much to be considered a viable TAC strategy. Plus 4 points probably isn't overcosted, but it's probably the most I'd want to pay, especially as you're likely wanting to pair it with Extra Munitions at an extra 2pts.

I will qualify this by saying I'm a bit rusty and haven't played in a couple of months, so I may have missed something!


Points 1,2 & 3 apply to all the useful missiles. Ordnance is good and incredibly reliable.

Point 4 isn't that tough to plan for, think palpatine, advanced targeting computer, a score to settle, guidance chips on 3 attack ships etc.

It's well priced at 4 points. Not having to spend the target lock makes it as good as concussion missiles even without the ability. It's also more straightforward than a cruise missile.

It's good.


 
   
Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

The point is about 4 is you're not planning for it, if you're going to make reliable use of it you're going to have to build for it, and I just don't see this as strong enough to warrant the opportunity cost when you can just chuck Cruise Missles or even Proton Rockets on any appropriate platform for fewer points and not have to worry about bringing other support cards to maximize their output.

I suppose one could chuck it on and just trust that it'll fire off once in a while if the dice are in your favor, but then why not use some of the cheaper good missles instead that work alone?

While I'll concede 1,2 and 3 apply to pretty much all the good stuff, it's still applies as a criticism of ordinance, whether it be torps or missles, because they require greater investment to ensure they have maximum impact, then Harpoons need an extra step beyond that.

The only reason ordinance can be argued reliable now is because it was a waste for so long we now have support cards making it so, and if one is using those cards, there is an opportunity cost of taking something else. If this were a cannon or turret, or an EPT even, with a similar effect, then the issues with ordinance (i.e. its a limited resource that requires investment in setup which an opponent can disrupt) wouldn't figure in my assessment for it.

It's not horrible, and it's clearly a good solution if you're competing in a Biggs heavy meta where it's worth putting some effort into countering it, but I think it's a bit too niche to be considered flat out "good."

We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club 
   
Made in ca
Huge Hierodule






Outflanking

Honestly, Assault Missiles seem to just be a simpler, more reliable way of doing the same thing, for a point more.

As for the captain, he could be decent if you have some job for a Black Sun Ace that doesn't care about losing a point of PS.

Q: What do you call a Dinosaur Handpuppet?

A: A Maniraptor 
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut




 Crazy_Carnifex wrote:
Honestly, Assault Missiles seem to just be a simpler, more reliable way of doing the same thing, for a point more.

As for the captain, he could be decent if you have some job for a Black Sun Ace that doesn't care about losing a point of PS.


The key difference is the requirement to spend the target lock to fire it. That makes the assault missile a 5 point gamble.

 
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






IMO:

Captain Jostero: Niche role ship, but a pretty good piece for that niche. Bombs and Nym are really good right now, so having synergy with a dominant list is a pretty good starting point. Hit them with a bomb, then a 4-dice attack with focus + re-roll, and if it's an action bomb they probably have no defensive tokens. Or take feedback array and pay 1 HP to deliver 1 HP of damage and a 4-die primary attack. And as a nice bonus it bypasses Biggs entirely, unless you want to bomb him. The downside is that I'm not sure it's really necessary when Nym/Dengar is already so good, and may end up a "win more" type of ship that's only good when your list is already working. So will he actually see some play, or be limited to the "fun, but not enough raw power" tier?

Harpoon missiles: bad. As has been said it's just way too much effort to set up a good result, and not even a spectacular result when it works. A few waves ago they might have been decent simply because it's a 4-die missile with a good chance of adding an extra hit, and it even lets you keep your target lock for dice modification. But in the same game as cruise missiles? That's a much harder argument to make. You're paying an extra point for 4+1 damage and some possible action denial, while the cruise missile just gets 5 dice and removes a ship in one turn. And I'm not sold as a counter to Biggs. You still have the problem of needing to set everything up, and you can't afford to tailor against Biggs that specifically and make your list worse against the rest of the meta.

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

IDK, Harpoon missiles seem ok. A point too expensive maybe, but not awful.

You don't spend the target lock to fire them, so you can fire them the same turn you get the lock and have some dice modification. They can still do full normal damage, and with 4 attack that itself could be nasty.

The Condition itself seems to be mostly a nuisance. If you suffer another Crit, you'll take another point of damage and everyone at range 1 will suffer a point of damage as well. Note that this damage is a facedown damage card, so it will go through shields. So for example if you Harpoon the Ghost and only do 1 point of damage with the actual missile it will take a shield and get harpooned. Then later on, if you do a crit to the Ghost, it will also take a facedown damage card through the shield.

Or you can ditch the condition card at a 50% chance of taking a point of damage.

So no, I don't think its bad. It's not amazing either for 4 points. It should probably just be 3 points.

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

A 3pt missile with 4 dice and the ability to fire and use its TL would be approaching broken without any other effects.

There's nothing egregiously wrong with it as it stands, it simply joins the ranks of dozens of other upgrades where they're not useless but are never likely going to see table time if your primary concern when building your list is winning games against opponents whose primary concern is stopping you.

We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club 
   
Made in gb
[MOD]
Villanous Scum







Has this been seen in the wild yet? or is a date known? our local distributor apparently has no idea when its supposed to be out.

On parle toujours mal quand on n'a rien à dire. 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Bathing in elitist French expats fumes

I think Spikey Bits did an unboxing video, so I'm guessing it's going to be soon. Maybe that is the Force Friday II item at 39USD that has been hinted at on the FFG website.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think Spikey Bits did an unboxing video, so I'm guessing it's going to be soon. Maybe that is the Force Friday II item at 39USD that has been hinted at on the FFG website.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/30 12:18:37


 GamesWorkshop wrote:
And I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling kids!

 
   
Made in gb
[MOD]
Villanous Scum







Seems to have got lost in the general FAQ fun, but this is finally out! Copy arrived today just in time for nationals.

On parle toujours mal quand on n'a rien à dire. 
   
 
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