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However, the question I still have is why no Black Widow stand-alone? I mean the genre is right there staring everyone in the face. Clearly they can just make it a genre film like they do with all the others. Antman was a Heist flick. Cap was a War movie. Etc.
Black Widow's stand alone should obviously be..... a Romantic Comedy!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/17 13:32:12
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Easy E wrote: I have a feeling this will do huge box office.
However, the question I still have is why no Black Widow stand-alone? I mean the genre is right there staring everyone in the face. Clearly they can just make it a genre film like they do with all the others. Antman was a Heist flick. Cap was a War movie. Etc.
Black Widow's stand alone should obviously be..... a Romantic Comedy!
Probably execs still worried about female lead - even after Wonder Woman or SJ is not available / too expensive - though I doubt that compared to RDJ?
Maybe Black Widow will pop up in Black Panther.
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
I think the widow film is being made by someone else, watch this trailer ;
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
Looks a little standard super hero story, but Marvel generally does a good job of surprising people. Mildly worried it will be similar to Dr. Strange though, where the movie is overall solid but doesn't really do anything to make it memorable in the increasingly crowded genre.
LunarSol wrote: Looks a little standard super hero story, but Marvel generally does a good job of surprising people. Mildly worried it will be similar to Dr. Strange though, where the movie is overall solid but doesn't really do anything to make it memorable in the increasingly crowded genre.
Strange fell flat for me on a number of levels, and suffered from being the 6th or 7th time that Marvel have made the exact same film (and without, say, the sheer brilliant script of Ant-Man to elevate it above that) but I think BP will do much, much better. Visually, it's got a totally new aesthetic which they look to be really taking in a cool direction, some of the hints of action scenes we've seen look highly inventive, and it's got a very charismatic lead in Boseman.
It's also not really an origin story, so they're not so constrained by the standard Marvel Formula of Get Powers>Train>Lose To Bad Guy> Learn New Thing>Beat Bad Guy (not necessarily anything wrong with that formula, but as I say Marvel have done it to death and their truly standout films are the ones that break away from it like TWS, Civil War and Guardians 2). I expect a lot of political intrigue, but with plenty of badass action sequences and what looks like a bit of globetrotting to break it up, and at the centre of it a very powerful story. T'Challa is a fascinating character dealing with a kind of responsibility and history that doesn't really compare to anything we've seen in the MCU so far.
I have high hopes, and that trailer does a lot to cement them.
Don't get me wrong; I'm almost certainly going opening night. My expectations are just currently a little tapered. I'll be interested to see how much of the style of the trailers translates to the final film at the very least.
Weird - Civil War and Guardians 2 are the ones that fell flat for me, while I really enjoyed Strange. I guess I'm still not at the stage where I need them to be anything more than a superhero movie.
"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal
Yodhrin wrote: Weird - Civil War and Guardians 2 are the ones that fell flat for me, while I really enjoyed Strange. I guess I'm still not at the stage where I need them to be anything more than a superhero movie.
Ha!
Same here - and I usually find myself enjoying them quite a bit too!
Yodhrin wrote: Weird - Civil War and Guardians 2 are the ones that fell flat for me, while I really enjoyed Strange. I guess I'm still not at the stage where I need them to be anything more than a superhero movie.
Ha!
Same here - and I usually find myself enjoying them quite a bit too!
Aye. I mean, don't get me wrong, I like the ones where they "shake up the formula" as well - Ant Man is one of my favourite MCU films - but when I go to see an MCU superhero movie I expect to see, well, an MCU superhero movie. I enjoyed the "formula" when I first saw it in Iron Man, and I still like it well enough now; it's not "high art" or cerebral sci-fi, but there are other IPs and genres for that, and it remains good entertainment, for my money.
"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal
Fair enough. I just find that some of Marvel's output has become a bit predictable and bland. Take Strange for example, if you've seen Iron Man/Thor 1/Ant-Man then it's clear from the start exactly where the plot it going, exactly which character archetypes various people are going to fall into, and ultimately how it's all going to play out in the end. This doesn't automatically make it boring, but I find I need something to elevate it a bit beyond that 'paint by numbers' storyline. A charismatic lead like Rudd in Ant-Man or a stunning script like GotG1, and for me, Strange lacked anything like that. Its USP was, I guess, the visual style, but that did nothing for me at all, I really would have liked it to go less Inception, more Harry Potter when it came to magic. All the folding planes and angles and distorted dimensions just didn't work for me as a set of visual motifs.
To move forward, I think Marvel just need to start making more films that are actually about something. Doesn't have to be grandiose, but my favourites are the ones that have a central theme and work that into the narrative. TWS is about trust and responsibility versus abuse of power, GOTG2 is about family, and to go outside the MCU, the best X-men films are the ones that really deal with the concepts of otherness and prejudice, like First Class and X2. Logan is one of the best comic book movies ever because you could take away the claws and the robot hands and the psychic and that story would still be one that is unique, moving and powerful.
Fortunately, BP looks to be more in this vein, inventive visually and hopefully quite original narratively.
I understand your point, it's just not a view I share. My feelings on this are similar to my feelings on 40K and on Star Trek - I like those things for what they are and because they are that, I neither need nor want them to be anything else because if I want something different, I watch/play something different. I'd rather 40K remain 40K, Star Trek remain Star Trek, and MCU films remain MCU films so that when my interest swings back around in their direction in the future they still exist in the form I enjoyed them.
"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal
Yodhrin wrote: I understand your point, it's just not a view I share. My feelings on this are similar to my feelings on 40K and on Star Trek - I like those things for what they are and because they are that, I neither need nor want them to be anything else because if I want something different, I watch/play something different. I'd rather 40K remain 40K, Star Trek remain Star Trek, and MCU films remain MCU films so that when my interest swings back around in their direction in the future they still exist in the form I enjoyed them.
Agreed - and I feel that all of the marvel films have had themes - they may not have jumped down your throat but they are better films for that.
@ Paradigm - I thought Ant Man was just ok and the script nothing special, the main lead was quite good but not in the same league as the say the cast of Avengers (in my eye THE superhero team movie) or Iron Man. E Lily was not great and there was simply little chemistry between them - unlike say Pepper and Tony in IM.
Strange was a bit of a throwaway movie that was only tied into the rest by the Infinity Stone, the Inception scenes (itself I feel is a massively overrated dog of a movie) were ok but just pretty to look at. I don't get the excitement for Guardians - it was always a second tier Marvel movie for me - behind Iron Man, Avengers, Cap A 2 and the Thor films - it was really enjoyable but nothing special but again subjective views. Logan is not bad, some great character work but the end is very weak and the whole "oh look nice black family that will die but don't matter" is poor.
IMO Marvel excels at making seemingly simple action movies that actually have a lot of humanity and heart, comedy and drama - they make films about people who do extraordinary things, not just superheroes. Its something DC have only just understood and IMO finally got it right with Wonder Woman.
Any discussion about whether the movies are good/bad is also highly subjective and dependant on what you actually enjoy/expect from a film.
Still excited about Black Panther! He was perhaps the best thing in Civil War which I did not think was as good as Avengers 1 or 2 or Winter Soldier.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/18 10:05:00
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
Of all the MCU heroes yet, Black Panther has a very unique take on what it means to be a "hero". Partially because he is also a King, partially because of his Wakandian culture, and partially because of his outsider status as a not-actually an Avenger super-hero.
I am interested in how they portray this in the movie.
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Very much agree with Paradigm about Doctor Strange.
At this point, the Marvel and DC movies are very much like the comics for me inasmuch as I will only check out one that features a character I care about. That's why I went to see Doctor Strange. I also figured Doctor Strange would be a good opportunity for Marvel Studios to break out of the ubiquitous "Avengers look" (similar to the "Snyder look" of DC movies). The kaleidoscopic effects seemed very promising in theory. In practice, however, they were largely pointless fluff. For better or worse, Doctor Strange is another rank-and-file entry to the MCU.
I also like Black Panther so I will probably go see this film. Given the Wakandan setting, I am pretty excited about the possibility of a high science fiction aesthetic - something similar to the fantastical Kryptonian scenes in MoS. But, yes, Black Panther needs to be about something rather than just being another origin story/character introduction that will eventually support the main event, i.e., Infinity War.
Manchu wrote: Very much agree with Paradigm about Doctor Strange.
At this point, the Marvel and DC movies are very much like the comics for me inasmuch as I will only check out one that features a character I care about. That's why I went to see Doctor Strange. I also figured Doctor Strange would be a good opportunity for Marvel Studios to break out of the ubiquitous "Avengers look" (similar to the "Snyder look" of DC movies). The kaleidoscopic effects seemed very promising in theory. In practice, however, they were largely pointless fluff. For better or worse, Doctor Strange is another rank-and-file entry to the MCU.
I also like Black Panther so I will probably go see this film. Given the Wakandan setting, I am pretty excited about the possibility of a high science fiction aesthetic - something similar to the fantastical Kryptonian scenes in MoS. But, yes, Black Panther needs to be about something rather than just being another origin story/character introduction that will eventually support the main event, i.e., Infinity War.
I don't know if they can go with a straight origin story because Civil War did that. However, I don't expect it to step too far away from those origin story beats. I for one am getting sick of origin stories.
I wonder if Cap or Winter Soldier will make a cameo? Cap makes a delightful cameo in the old MTV Black Panther anime. Anyone see that thing?
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I never followed Black Panther back when I was into comics, I always thought he was a Spiderman villian(Was a DC/Image/Dark Horse guy) . I know a bit more about him now, but I’m curious:
Why is Wakanda so reclusive and how are they so advanced?
Are they guarding something? Is that something what gives them the technical know-whats?
"Sometimes the only victory possible is to keep your opponent from winning." - The Emperor, from The Outcast Dead.
"Tell your gods we are coming for them, and that their realms will burn as ours did." -Thostos Bladestorm
nels1031 wrote: Why is Wakanda so reclusive and how are they so advanced?
As I understand it;
Wakanda has near sole access to the world's Vibranium supply (what Vibranium exists outside their borders is usually smuggled out of the country) via a meteor that landed within the country in the ancient past. They remain reclusive because while powerful and technologically advanced they are a very small country and cannot take on the world eager to seize control of their vibranium supply.
Vibranium meteor/crashed alien spaceship is generally the source of their super tech, and their desire not to lose out on it causes their reclusiveness.
Said Serkis and the villains were the best MCU villains yet.
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
