Iron_Captain wrote:

 Formosa wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
First Captains would be much much more experienced than a mere chapter master when it comes to large scale warfare and logistics, a legion is made up of many chapter/companies, each having a chapter master, the best of these chapter masters would then become the first captain or legion master, if your talking combat power, then i would put my money on pretty much all of the named first captains or legion master, Corswain, Sigismund and Kharn can easy beat chapter masters (fluff).

A 40k-era Chapter Master is going to have more experience. Chapter Masters like Dante, Grimnar and Calgar have many hundreds of years of experience. Considering their greater experience and feats, I'd actually put my money on those guys over the likes of 30k Sigismund or Kharn. Also, when talking not just about combat prowess (which isn't the purpose of Chapter Masters or First Captains) but rather about skill in commanding forces, none of the First Captains in the Heresy was even close to being as old and experienced as the named Chapter Masters of 40k. And what is more, a First Captain will have had no real experience of bearing the full responsibility. Certainly, they conducted independent operations, but their Primarch was always making the big calls and final decisions. They could always fall back on their Primarchs. Chapter Masters in 40k have no such luxury. They have to do things all on their own, and with much more limited resources.


Really, it depends on the individual, but if the individuals we are talking about are Dante, Calgar and Grimnar vs Sigismund, Corswain and Kharn, my money is solidly on the 40k guys. The vast difference in experience is insurmountable, I feel.
In terms of combat prowess, just look at their feats. Dante once cut a freaking Bloodthirster in two. Calgar punched an Avatar of Khaine knockout. Grimnar has defeated daemon princes in single combat and even bested Magnus the Red.
Some of the first captains, like Sigismund, Sevatar or Kharn, also have some pretty crazy feats, but nothing on that level.

Thats simply not true, a legion master leads a legion and has seen more fighting in those 200 years than any current chapter master would have,

That is really about the amount of experience that one needs to have to be even considered for the position of Chapter Master in 40k. Even the least experienced of Chapter Masters is going to be at least as experienced as the most experienced of First Captains that had been with the Great Crusade since the beginning. And most First Captains weren't, they joined at a much later date. Dante and Grimnar between the two of them have more experience and have faced more foes than all First Captains of all legions put together.

 Formosa wrote:
not to mention that a legion is by orders of magnitude larger than a chapter, the logistics alone would be staggering, then moving all those units to the relative warzones, making sure they are up to fighting strength against enemies that the imperium had no concept on how to fight and still overcoming them, the 40k ones have live on the shoulders of giants,

The First Captains had virtually unlimited resources, and a huge support staff to help them take care of logistics and everything. Chapter Masters have to win their victories with highly limited resources and without all the aid and support structures the Legions got. That is much more impressive.

 Formosa wrote:
The idea that any 40k character is on par with sigismund is laughable to say the least, both in crunch and fluff, Sigismund eats them all for breakfast, but he is an extreme example,

Fluffwise, definitely not. Crunchwise they are in different systems, so it is hard to compare. And even if it weren't, it'd be irrelevant as rules and stats are created for game balance and do not represent the actual fluff.

 Formosa wrote:
Corswain, Sevatar, Kharn, Amit, Amon, and more are all (fluff wise) stupidly more powerful than any of the 40k chapter masters, Kharn has clearly beaten bloodthirsters in his time, killing an avatar is hardly an achievement these days and multiple characters have beaten deamon prince.

Yes, multiple characters have beaten daemon princes and killed Avatars, and many of them were Chapter Masters, but none of them were First Captains. No First Captain of a legion has ever managed that. Kharn did, but Kharn hasn't been First Captain for millennia. His most impressive feats are all from long after the World Eaters legion was destroyed.
Meanwhile, virtually every well-known Chapter Master can boast of such feats.

As a whole, the Legions were vastly more powerful than the 40k Chapters. But individually, the Space Marines of 40k are better warriors. 40k Space Marines are highly experienced and have ridiculously high recruitment standards. The average 30k Space Marine on the other hand is mere mass production They had relatively low recruitment standards because they had to churn out massive numbers of new Space Marines, and new Space Marines got little in the way of training before being sent to die on the battlefields of the Horus Heresy. Most of the Great Crusade era Space Marines died early in the Heresy. The average Space Marine back in the HH had only a few months of experience, if he was lucky.