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Made in ca
Fresh-Faced New User




Powerful aura characters are probably best balanced by missions IMO. The win condition for Guilliman-style armies that sit in a 6" bubble should be to effectively table your opponent. If you can't do that you should generally lose due to maelstrom/turn based objectives. Bubble armies "should" be the most powerful from a firepower perspective, and "should" be the weakest from a mobility/objective taking perspective. I think its an open debate on raw power vs objective play and depends entirely on how missions are designed. For example, Guilliman might be worth 600+ points in an eternal war or kill point mission, but may even be over-costed in a spread out maelstrom mission.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 daedalus wrote:
I'm going to be contrary and say that the problem isn't necessarily all the auras. It is though kind of, but it is from the approach that there's not a more reasonable way of getting rid of them.

There's snipers, which are adequate (but admittedly not utterly stunningly amazing) against things like commissars, but they're almost utterly ineffective against anything.else. If they were 2+ to wound anything (and made more expensive for certain armies to limit spam) then I think the problem would evaporate.

As an addendum to this: I think just about every army should also get some sort of sniper weapon as well.


The problem with this in regards to special characters is some just will not die. Celestine with her body guards and Robby are two good examples, not to mention Morty and the other DG characters once we see all of them (they can ignore even mortal wounds).

I think anti character options are limited by the huge difference in power between them. You can shoot Robby all game with the same snipers that kill two commissars a turn and he might still make it.
   
Made in us
Kid_Kyoto






Probably work

Sure, I won't argue that. That was kind of why I was suggesting the '2+ to wound' mechanic. It still doesn't REALLY balance it out, but it would at least help.

Assume all my mathhammer comes from here: https://github.com/daed/mathhammer 
   
Made in us
War Walker Pilot with Withering Fire




 daedalus wrote:
Sure, I won't argue that. That was kind of why I was suggesting the '2+ to wound' mechanic. It still doesn't REALLY balance it out, but it would at least help.


Giving them something like "2+ to wound against models with the Character keyword" wouldn't be a half-bad idea, at all.
   
Made in us
Rough Rider with Boomstick





One possibility would be making snipers much more generous about generating mortal wounds when targeting a character.

After all, a Commissar wouldn't care very much about a mortal wound being put on him. He was probably going to fail his saves anyway. Reboot and Celestine on the other hand...
   
Made in us
Screaming Shining Spear





USA

the bubble buffs were the hardest part of learning 8th. So many re rolls and saves to keep track of. I need more tracking for buffs than I do for wounds!

I am thinking about printing out buff cards to place next to the units so I can recall quickly everything that is effected.

Same with psychic buffs and vehicle wargear upgrades.

Need more cards (wait is this 2nd edition?)

 koooaei wrote:
We are rolling so many dice to have less time to realise that there is not much else to the game other than rolling so many dice.
 
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User





Could they do it so that a selecting a character would allow you to buy the buffs for the affected units?
For example taking RG would allow you to purchase those buffs for your ultras at a sensible point cost, essentially meaning he would unlock more expensive but more powerful versions of units.
That way the more units you buff, the more you pay, which seems to be one of the main issues with pricing buffs.


I do commissions! PM me if you're interested for prices and details, I am happy to paint a small group group of models first at a different price so that you can see my painting first hand, before making a big decision.
Again, PM me if interested. 
   
Made in us
Mounted Kroot Tracker







I really liked the idea of auras on characters that could then be sniped as a strategy to the game, but a lot of characters are simply too tough to go down to sniping.

Would a generic psychic power, like Smite, that allowed any psyker to target an enemy unit and prevent all auras from working for a turn be too simple a solution?

   
Made in us
Focused Fire Warrior




NY

My guess here would be to have different characters have different hindrances associated with their buffs. That way you'd pick the right character to go with the unit that synergies with it in terms of your list. It could be challenging on more potent SM buffs like reroll all failed hit or wound rolls all the time at 6', but that kind of huge buff could use some toning down.

Currently Tau are like that. If I want to reroll 1s from an ethereal's buff only units that don't move in the movement/psychic phase are buffed. Reroll misses in the shooting phase is once per GAME and wholly disallows the entire bubble from moving for any reason all turn. These are huge tradeoffs that make potent buffs tactical choices rather than permanent efficiency mods that can't be assigned a proper cost.

You could have a psych denial character give up that denial attempt in order to activate an aura, or a high wound count character injure itself to provide an aura, or have the situation where the character must be able to attack in melee and forfeit the attack to buff its comrades against that foe. All more interesting than permanent flat bonuses.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut







I'm a fan of "sidegrade" auras to an extent. One thing I experimented with in Forgehammer was classifying Auras as their own type of Psychic Power, that were not necessarily blessings or maledictions. Since the system used "Degrees of success" for determining if powers could pass or fail, the amoubt of successes for an Aura determined its radius, and not its strength.

Notable examples included:
-Telekine Dome: Ranged attacks shooting into or outside of the Telekine Dome are at -1 to wound/penetrate. So you could use it as a defensive ability, or an offensive one.
-Warp Quake: Units may not Deep Strike(Teleport) into this area. If a unit using Deep Strike (Teleport) scatters into a Warp Quake, place it in the closest area outside of the Warp Quake instead. Thus, you could use Warp Quake both defensively (prevent the enemy from getting too close to you), or offensively (set up a few Warp Quakes to act as an ersatz Inertial Guidance system).

And so on, so forth. The game should provide an open "toolbox" of powers, each power should have less explicit uses like "Free rerolls for your biggest guns. U is so smart synergist", and should allow for unconventional tricks. This one thing I feel Mat Ward "almost" got with his 5e codexes, for although they did have fluff that read akin to Eye of Argon, there were all sorts of tiny shenanigans you could pull off with them! From the comical (Plopping a Death Ray over your Lychguard, so their Dispersion Shields would reflect into a Knight), to the surprisingly utilitarian (Using "The Conjuring" to reposition your armor onto an opposing flank), his options at least encouraged more in-game decision-making besides "How do I optimize mah buff auras" (though he was guilty of that with Blood Angels).
   
Made in gb
Killer Klaivex




The dark behind the eyes.

Recently, chaps over on TheDarkCity were discussing the Archon (who's Aura is one of the worst in the game) and how it could be improved. One of the issues was that, even if he had a good aura, he and a lot of his army are going to be in transports for most of the game (so he'll be affecting few - if any - units).

Anyway, someone suggested an interesting solution to this:

What if, instead of being an aura, these abilities instead allowed you to select a single unit at the beginning of the game to apply the buff to. That unit (along with the HQ) gains that buff for the duration of the game.

So, to take the example of an Autarch, instead of giving a reroll 1s buff to all units within 6" you'd instead choose a unit at the beginning of the game (let's say some Dark Reapers). Those Dark Reapers would then reroll 1s for the remainder of the game, regardless of distance to the Autarch or whether he's even still alive.

Now obviously some tweaking may be necessary, but the idea is that auras wouldn't scale with how many models you can fit near your HQ. What's more, you also wouldn't have the issue of predominantly melee HQs wanting to stick near ranged units because of their auras.

A slight variation would be to make auras like MWBD - wherein the HQ chooses a single unit to buff within 6" each turn. This is the same sort of thing, with the advantage that you can choose the most appropriate unit each turn, but of course you have to be within 6" of them.

Any thoughts?

 blood reaper wrote:
I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.



 the_scotsman wrote:
Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"

 Argive wrote:
GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.


 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"


Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.


 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Another big thing is that there is a rather huge disparity between factions with the benefits of their auras.

Girlyman gives +1 to advance/charge rolls. He also lets all IoM units reroll 1s when rolling to hit and morale tests.

For Ultramarines he lets them all reroll all failed hits/wounds.

Beyond that regular Marines also have Captains who allow rerolls of 1s to hit, Chaplains who let you reroll to hit in combat and a leadership buff, and Primaris Lieutenants who let you reroll wound rolls of 1.

These are all REALLY good buffs for units and are relatively cheap. They are actually a lot better when you consider the BS and Strength of SM weapons. SMs hit on 3s so rerolling 1s means you have a 1/6 chance to miss, a 1/6 chance to reroll where you get a 2/3rd passing chance and a 2/3rd chance to it. For other factions who hit on 4s and 5s this is less advantageous, To wound is just as important since most everyone is T3-4 in the game so anytime you can reroll to wound rolls your golden. I see a lot of Marine players stacking Dev Squads with a Primaris Lt and a Captain to get to hit and wound rerolls on Heavy Weapons. Lascannons will wound just about everything on a 2 or 3+ so rerolling 1s means you almost can't fail.

SM players also have apothecaries who re really important when used to support multi wound models.

Orks on the other hand basically have the Warboss and Ghaz. They have the same ability, Charge after advancing, except Ghaz has +1 to attack on the charge which is better.

We also have the Painboy who gives a 6+ FNP and heals/kills wounded characters.

So there is a fair bit of a power disparity between these auras that causes a lot of problems with external balance.

 Tomsug wrote:
Semper krumps under the radar

 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Springfield, VA

 vipoid wrote:
Recently, chaps over on TheDarkCity were discussing the Archon (who's Aura is one of the worst in the game) and how it could be improved. One of the issues was that, even if he had a good aura, he and a lot of his army are going to be in transports for most of the game (so he'll be affecting few - if any - units).

Anyway, someone suggested an interesting solution to this:

What if, instead of being an aura, these abilities instead allowed you to select a single unit at the beginning of the game to apply the buff to. That unit (along with the HQ) gains that buff for the duration of the game.

So, to take the example of an Autarch, instead of giving a reroll 1s buff to all units within 6" you'd instead choose a unit at the beginning of the game (let's say some Dark Reapers). Those Dark Reapers would then reroll 1s for the remainder of the game, regardless of distance to the Autarch or whether he's even still alive.

Now obviously some tweaking may be necessary, but the idea is that auras wouldn't scale with how many models you can fit near your HQ. What's more, you also wouldn't have the issue of predominantly melee HQs wanting to stick near ranged units because of their auras.

A slight variation would be to make auras like MWBD - wherein the HQ chooses a single unit to buff within 6" each turn. This is the same sort of thing, with the advantage that you can choose the most appropriate unit each turn, but of course you have to be within 6" of them.

Any thoughts?


The problem with that is then you just find 'the best unit' for them to buff, and either you price him and/or that unit accordingly, making literally any other combo overpriced (because they are not 'the best unit' but he is still paying as if he was buffing 'the best unit!') or you price him and/or that unit just like anyone else, and that makes him and 'the best unit' the most efficient way to run them and you'll still never see anything else.

It's a different problem than auras, but it's still essentially 'do you cost him or the unit appropriately for the most efficient combo? Or do you price him as an average of his buff applied to a variety of units, therefore making him over-efficient if he's buffing said unit?'

Forge World has this problem with the Trojan and Salamander Command Vehicle. They both make one <Regiment> vehicle hit better (re-rolls and +1 respectively) but they're priced as if they're doing it to Baneblades - this makes them way over-priced for buffing, say, a Leman Russ or Chimera, even if that would be fluffy to have around. If you price them as if they were buffing a Leman Russ or Chimera, however, then they'd be ridiculously good as buff-bots for a Baneblade.
   
Made in fi
Courageous Space Marine Captain






I actually like that the characters are now something more than just beatsticks.

Sure, there might be some balancing problems (cough... Guilliman...) but that's not an issue with the concept itself.

   
Made in us
Death-Dealing Devastator




Arkansas (Not Canada)

I think characters should be treated almost like psykers, each one has a set number of buffs they can hand out to a unit per turn, from a faction specific list like IG orders.

For example, a space marine lieutenant can make one unit within 6" Reroll 1s to hit, Reroll 1s to Wound, Fire after advancing, ect.

Captains pick two units, Chapter Masters get three, RG gets four, or maybe 3 on an upgraded list.



7500+
4000+
3000+
1500+
1000+
1000+
1000+ 
   
Made in es
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain




Vigo. Spain.

 Crimson wrote:
I actually like that the characters are now something more than just beatsticks.

Sure, there might be some balancing problems (cough... Guilliman...) but that's not an issue with the concept itself.


This is the problem with warhammer. Theres a good concept, that has some OP units like in this case Guilliman or in the case of Morale the Conscript+Commisar combo, but people make of it as if it was a generic problem of the core rules. No, is just a problem of some units being undercosted or overpowered.

 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Springfield, VA

 Galas wrote:
 Crimson wrote:
I actually like that the characters are now something more than just beatsticks.

Sure, there might be some balancing problems (cough... Guilliman...) but that's not an issue with the concept itself.


This is the problem with warhammer. Theres a good concept, that has some OP units like in this case Guilliman or in the case of Morale the Conscript+Commisar combo, but people make of it as if it was a generic problem of the core rules. No, is just a problem of some units being undercosted or overpowered.


So you don't think it's an issue where the points for the buff are going, exactly?

Because buffs cost points, and some characters (like the Autarch mentioned earlier) clearly pay for the buff in their points cost... is that a good thing? Should the character be an awful choice if he is doing anything other than being a buff-bot?
   
Made in es
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain




Vigo. Spain.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 Galas wrote:
 Crimson wrote:
I actually like that the characters are now something more than just beatsticks.

Sure, there might be some balancing problems (cough... Guilliman...) but that's not an issue with the concept itself.


This is the problem with warhammer. Theres a good concept, that has some OP units like in this case Guilliman or in the case of Morale the Conscript+Commisar combo, but people make of it as if it was a generic problem of the core rules. No, is just a problem of some units being undercosted or overpowered.


So you don't think it's an issue where the points for the buff are going, exactly?

Because buffs cost points, and some characters (like the Autarch mentioned earlier) clearly pay for the buff in their points cost... is that a good thing? Should the character be an awful choice if he is doing anything other than being a buff-bot?


Yes. If you buy a Psyker and you don't use Psyquic powers you are overpaying for a useless character. You should use a unit to their intended purpose. The buffers should have the buff costs in their cost.

 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




what if they made buffs an upgrade for certain characters and then they tack on a points cost for each buff? Some characters can't select some buffs and vice versa?

 Tomsug wrote:
Semper krumps under the radar

 
   
Made in es
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain




Vigo. Spain.

SemperMortis wrote:
what if they made buffs an upgrade for certain characters and then they tack on a points cost for each buff? Some characters can't select some buffs and vice versa?


Thats other option. Like "Honour aura: This units allow ally units of the same <Chapter> to rerroll to hits rolls of 1 in 6"" for X points for a captain, for example.

 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Springfield, VA

 Galas wrote:
 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 Galas wrote:
 Crimson wrote:
I actually like that the characters are now something more than just beatsticks.

Sure, there might be some balancing problems (cough... Guilliman...) but that's not an issue with the concept itself.


This is the problem with warhammer. Theres a good concept, that has some OP units like in this case Guilliman or in the case of Morale the Conscript+Commisar combo, but people make of it as if it was a generic problem of the core rules. No, is just a problem of some units being undercosted or overpowered.


So you don't think it's an issue where the points for the buff are going, exactly?

Because buffs cost points, and some characters (like the Autarch mentioned earlier) clearly pay for the buff in their points cost... is that a good thing? Should the character be an awful choice if he is doing anything other than being a buff-bot?


Yes. If you buy a Psyker and you don't use Psyquic powers you are overpaying for a useless character. You should use a unit to their intended purpose. The buffers should have the buff costs in their cost.


So you're willing to sacrifice fluff (Black Templar captains charging into melee) on the altar of efficiency? (The most efficient place for a Black Templars captain is milling around in the back with TLAC razorbacks)
   
Made in es
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain




Vigo. Spain.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 Galas wrote:
 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 Galas wrote:
 Crimson wrote:
I actually like that the characters are now something more than just beatsticks.

Sure, there might be some balancing problems (cough... Guilliman...) but that's not an issue with the concept itself.


This is the problem with warhammer. Theres a good concept, that has some OP units like in this case Guilliman or in the case of Morale the Conscript+Commisar combo, but people make of it as if it was a generic problem of the core rules. No, is just a problem of some units being undercosted or overpowered.


So you don't think it's an issue where the points for the buff are going, exactly?

Because buffs cost points, and some characters (like the Autarch mentioned earlier) clearly pay for the buff in their points cost... is that a good thing? Should the character be an awful choice if he is doing anything other than being a buff-bot?


Yes. If you buy a Psyker and you don't use Psyquic powers you are overpaying for a useless character. You should use a unit to their intended purpose. The buffers should have the buff costs in their cost.


So you're willing to sacrifice fluff (Black Templar captains charging into melee) on the altar of efficiency? (The most efficient place for a Black Templars captain is milling around in the back with TLAC razorbacks)

The rerrols to hit apply in meele too. Maybe they aren't as efficient, I can agree with that. I find in that case is because the TLAC razorbacks are undercosted.
Other option is to give as said before, buffs for points, and making a differentiation in rerrols to meele with rerrols to shooting with general rerrols, making the meele ones cheaper and the generic ones more expensive.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/28 16:29:26


 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in fi
Courageous Space Marine Captain






 Unit1126PLL wrote:

So you're willing to sacrifice fluff (Black Templar captains charging into melee) on the altar of efficiency? (The most efficient place for a Black Templars captain is milling around in the back with TLAC razorbacks)

Hiss buff works just as well for melee units than for shooting units. If it is still much more beneficial to buff shooting than melee units, then the issue is the cost/effectiveness-ratio of melee versus shooting units, not the buff itself. In this specific case the issue might be that the Razorback is undercosted.

   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Springfield, VA

 Crimson wrote:
 Unit1126PLL wrote:

So you're willing to sacrifice fluff (Black Templar captains charging into melee) on the altar of efficiency? (The most efficient place for a Black Templars captain is milling around in the back with TLAC razorbacks)

Hiss buff works just as well for melee units than for shooting units. If it is still much more beneficial to buff shooting than melee units, then the issue is the cost/effectiveness-ratio of melee versus shooting units, not the buff itself. In this specific case the issue might be that the Razorback is undercosted.


There will always be a 'most efficient unit(s)' to run the buff with, and that 'most efficient unit' will not line up with someone or another's fluff for their captain to stand near. So making the captain pay points for a buff in the 'most efficient' situation makes anyone else following the fluff and not making the captain stand next to said unit is hurting themselves.
   
Made in es
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain




Vigo. Spain.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 Crimson wrote:
 Unit1126PLL wrote:

So you're willing to sacrifice fluff (Black Templar captains charging into melee) on the altar of efficiency? (The most efficient place for a Black Templars captain is milling around in the back with TLAC razorbacks)

Hiss buff works just as well for melee units than for shooting units. If it is still much more beneficial to buff shooting than melee units, then the issue is the cost/effectiveness-ratio of melee versus shooting units, not the buff itself. In this specific case the issue might be that the Razorback is undercosted.


There will always be a 'most efficient unit(s)' to run the buff with, and that 'most efficient unit' will not line up with someone or another's fluff for their captain to stand near. So making the captain pay points for a buff in the 'most efficient' situation makes anyone else following the fluff and not making the captain stand next to said unit is hurting themselves.

Thats fixed with letting characters selects aura buffs as a wargear choice with associated point costs.

 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Springfield, VA

 Galas wrote:
 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 Crimson wrote:
 Unit1126PLL wrote:

So you're willing to sacrifice fluff (Black Templar captains charging into melee) on the altar of efficiency? (The most efficient place for a Black Templars captain is milling around in the back with TLAC razorbacks)

Hiss buff works just as well for melee units than for shooting units. If it is still much more beneficial to buff shooting than melee units, then the issue is the cost/effectiveness-ratio of melee versus shooting units, not the buff itself. In this specific case the issue might be that the Razorback is undercosted.


There will always be a 'most efficient unit(s)' to run the buff with, and that 'most efficient unit' will not line up with someone or another's fluff for their captain to stand near. So making the captain pay points for a buff in the 'most efficient' situation makes anyone else following the fluff and not making the captain stand next to said unit is hurting themselves.

Thats fixed with letting characters selects aura buffs as a wargear choice with associated point costs.


That's not a bad idea, imo. Tell GW!
   
Made in fi
Courageous Space Marine Captain






 Unit1126PLL wrote:

There will always be a 'most efficient unit(s)' to run the buff with, and that 'most efficient unit' will not line up with someone or another's fluff for their captain to stand near. So making the captain pay points for a buff in the 'most efficient' situation makes anyone else following the fluff and not making the captain stand next to said unit is hurting themselves.

And there will always be the most efficient relic to equip a character with (solution: axe relics,) there will always be the most efficient unit to put into transports (solution: axe transports.) This is just silly.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut







 Crimson wrote:
 Unit1126PLL wrote:

There will always be a 'most efficient unit(s)' to run the buff with, and that 'most efficient unit' will not line up with someone or another's fluff for their captain to stand near. So making the captain pay points for a buff in the 'most efficient' situation makes anyone else following the fluff and not making the captain stand next to said unit is hurting themselves.

And there will always be the most efficient relic to equip a character with (solution: axe relics,) there will always be the most efficient unit to put into transports (solution: axe transports.) This is just silly.


I miss Fire Points and the Scrolls of Magnus.
   
Made in us
Tzeentch Veteran Marine with Psychic Potential





Character buffs or auras aren't so much the problem. They're a tool like having a flying gunship that wrecks your enemy's tanks, or bringing a squad of lascannon devastators to wipe out any big stompy things. But whereas these units can be countered themselves, Characters cannot.

Gone are the duel mechanics. Gone are the squad joining rules that rolled over wounds to them by average toughness. Characters are now protected by their armies all too well and nearly impossible to remove from the table due to enemies choosing what models die first, allowing screening units to stay screening to the last model. Even if you have line of sight on the character with no intervening units, you aren't allow to shoot it if there's a helicopter near you.

We definitely need some sort of anti-character answer. Only armies that have snipers have any sort of exception to this rule and those snipers tend to be very weak. Even the assassins can't handle your average beefcake of a character with its 4++ invulns and command point rerolls. I think to solve the "aura problem" we need more ways to defeat characters. Maybe give Sniper Rifles as a troop choice special weapon. Or more powers like Infernal Gaze that let you psychic target a character. Or bring back that duel mechanics so two characters can face off without needing to clear their intervening blobs first.

It's called a thick skin. The Jersey born have it innately. 
   
Made in us
Rough Rider with Boomstick





A lot of armies that have snipers do also have the ability to give sniper rifles to their troop choices. It's just that the sniper rifles do still tend to do a poor job of removing beefcake characters.

I think a big part of the problem with sniper rifles is that they don't have any rules specifically for characters, other than just being able to target them. So if you had a sniper rifle that could do a good job of flooring something like Papa Smurf, well... it would also be a mighty fine anti-tank weapon and cost quite a few points.

The Vindicare's exitus rifle is kind of already in "are you sure this isn't an anti-tank weapon?" territory (though it does have an excuse to be there). The only thing that really skews it toward murdering characters in particular is its 2+ auto-wound on Infantry, which of course means it doesn't work on non-Infantry characters like, say, Wolf Lord on Thunderwolf (he's Cavalry, and with 7 wounds he'll still get character shooting protection).

With the immense proliferation of characters in this edition and so many armies being re-tooled to pretty much force you to build around them (because characters are pricey single-model kits, and GW wants the money), I do think it would be a good idea to tune sniper rifles to absolutely wreck characters in particular.
   
 
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