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OgreChubbs wrote:

 Backspacehacker wrote:

OgreChubbs wrote:
Ah yes another good dakka thread. Three good comments, followed by a bunch of idiots chest punching on the internet picking on someone.

No where is your opnion asked for, so you should keep your opnion to yourself. This is him showing what he does if it is not worth it to you so be it. But no where does it say, get your gang bang inadequate comments off here. I know this is the Internet and people seem to think manner so onto apply here but grow up and shut up.

This is why it is harder and harder for people to post on here, serious lack of morals in the mods. Any forum that lets 30 comments of insults go on and on with out bumping in is imbarassing to say the least. This is internet bullying to say the least....... or u.s.a run forums not sure which.

And no where was your opinion asked for. This is not a thread about "hey guys look what i did what do you think I could improve on?" Someone paid for this and we are pointing out the flaws and the lack of detail that should be taken in a commission. This is not your flgs where people will hand hold and be supportive, this is the internet where filters are off. There is plenty of moral here. I have been painting for some 6 years now and guess what I have been trash talked and i have been compamented, and I have learned from people on here. Thing is this guy is coming off as if he is some pro painter and these are commission works that can't even pass basic painting techniques let alone be considered above table top.

If you want a hug box go else were, if critisizem offends you then for the love of god do not go into comp painting because you will be destroyed by the official judges. Which maybe you have not noticed but this guy has posted like 10 threads and ignores all the advice and only responds to complements.

What we are doing is called tough love, telling him to get better before doing commission lest he ruin his "studios rep.

I am looking for where he said pro...... Anywhere...... If you can find it, it would be nice to see. Because what I see is someone posting a model he painted to a level he describes it as.

So no people are not giving advise they are being rude, I am not sure where your lack of parenting comes from but allow me to fill in the missing gaps for you. Your opnion is not needed or wanted and what you think doesn't matte. If you have nothing nice to say, say nothing at all. Right now there is 2 posts about helping improving and the rest are just jack ..... posts jumping on the jerk train.

So no this is not tough love this is why people especially women avoid and mock table top games because there is a pissing contest among those who people already look down on the type. It is also the reason I do not bring models to a store or pretend I even know what they are, just incase I get lumped into a group that pick on someone for a little toy with paint on it. My god it is like a kindergarten fight. My picture is better nah nah nah.


Just adding this, I am involved in a lot of hobbies but this is the only one I have seen that pick on someone trying to enjoy the hobby with them. It is quite disturbing picking on someone for how well the do on a hobby.

sonny2dap wrote:

 MajorTom11 wrote:

 Muggami wrote:
Even professionals make mistakes, thanks for the feed back

Being 'professional' doesn't mean your work is high quality. There is no barrier of entry other than 'someone paid me once'. That someone could be your Nana.

Look, no one is trying to be mean to you, but for charging money, vs the market, your work is sub par for the professional level, rife with beginners mistakes and badly executed basics. You have a lot to learn, and I encourage you to do so, as you certainly have potential. I am not sure how old you are, but if you are a young guy trying to make a buck who is much better than your peers, I get that. But you are trying to come off as pro here, and though you may be 'pro' in the literal sense as someone paid you to paint, you are absolutely not pro in that there is no way you would place in any competition talent pros are involved in.

My advice; learn your basics. Learn to prime without it having sandpaper texture. Learn minimum QC. Learn minimum tabletop methods, washes, edge highlighting, minimum 3 tone per surface. At that level, you can't be messy, otherwise you will continue to get helpful lectures every time you post.

To the poster above, right here is your "pro" claim. and a decent response as most have been.

OgreChubbs, you didn't try very hard to find the pro claim, there are many threads of his where he indicates his desired status.

The reason this gentleman is receiving criticism is that he is advertising. Had it been just some young lad showing his first forays into model painting of course people here are very generally and consistently kind. Dakka may have a contentious reputation in some circles but the Painting and Modelling section in general is a very kind, helpful place. If you are looking to improve, people here are very willing to give you help and advice. Pretending otherwise is a big disservice to a kind hobbyist community here, and also shows you aren't paying much attention being honest.

You will note in many threads people gave constructive critiques and hints on how to improve, the reason why the tone is shifting towards harsher 'this isn't up to par for a professional' is because there is no acknowledgement from the OP that the issues exist. At which point people begin to get protective of potential customers getting a raw deal, giving expensive kits to someone who doesn't do the bare minimum of prep, and the bare minimum of paint. That may sound harsh to you at the outset, but think it through, the advice given, and the comments, whether put gently or not, are still aimed at getting the OP to a sustainable level of talent for a commision painter to succeed in the long term. The advice would help him get to the point where instead of getting criticism, he may get new customers.

I understand you are interpreting this as a gang-up of bored neck-beards. But it isn't, I think if you take the time to consider the above, and also to re-read the comments with a more neutral tone in your mind, you may see what I am saying. Or not, it's up to you, but I wanted to take a moment to defend the overwhelmingly kind people in this section of Dakka, I have seen a thousand acts and words of help and kindness for every 1 of the kind of post you describe as pervasive.

 sonny2dap wrote:

 MajorTom11 wrote:

 Muggami wrote:
Even professionals make mistakes, thanks for the feed back

Being 'professional' doesn't mean your work is high quality. There is no barrier of entry other than 'someone paid me once'. That someone could be your Nana.

Look, no one is trying to be mean to you, but for charging money, vs the market, your work is sub par for the professional level, rife with beginners mistakes and badly executed basics. You have a lot to learn, and I encourage you to do so, as you certainly have potential. I am not sure how old you are, but if you are a young guy trying to make a buck who is much better than your peers, I get that. But you are trying to come off as pro here, and though you may be 'pro' in the literal sense as someone paid you to paint, you are absolutely not pro in that there is no way you would place in any competition talent pros are involved in.

My advice; learn your basics. Learn to prime without it having sandpaper texture. Learn minimum QC. Learn minimum tabletop methods, washes, edge highlighting, minimum 3 tone per surface. At that level, you can't be messy, otherwise you will continue to get helpful lectures every time you post.

To the poster above, right here is your "pro" claim. and a decent response as most have been.

Saying even pros make mistakes is not the same as I am a pro and made a mistake. But by the response I am getting here it is not hard to tell why you go to local stores to play...... Anyways I am off good luck with those evil people trying to play with your toys and not colouring in the lines like you. Later.

Lol drop the mic all you want, if you are too lazy to read his posts, all of which are at the top of this forum, to establish to yourself he is a 'pro' painter and instead prefer to insist your argument holds any kind of credibility that he isn't saying that all over the place somehow... well, you have established that the only person who came into this thread to attack people for no reason is you. Congrats, you are what you hate lol -

Moving on.

Comments should likely get back the OP's work at this point, though, I think it is a very valid discussion to have about the difference in standards that the community has for pro work vs personal work. The OP is putting his work on here as advertising, he is mentioning he does commissions, and he is giving his rates and also spread of 'level' options. As long as he is doing that, then it is fair game to involve the 'pro service' discussion of the shown miniatures, as the only thing that made it an issue is the OP himself.

My 2 cents.

Yes it is because he is referencing his work, someone said there was a mistake on HIS work and his response was "even professionals make mistakes" with reference to himself.

You are doing mental gymnastics to try and defend this guy. He is claiming to be a pro but he is not.

Just to put it to rest once and for all so OgreChubbs can go to the corner and think about what he has done, and maybe even do the right thing and apologize for popping off baselessly -

 Muggami wrote:

 sonny2dap wrote:
Now I'm confused, I've seen all your posts now and whilst I think you got a solid foundation and I thought maybe its just proper el'cheapio commissions that someones firing out at a rate of knots, but I don't get how you're determining quality levels now, your basing on this is arguably better than your level 2, and the mistakes present here are present on your level 2 as well. Peregrine as posted above is offering you some solid advice, don't be discouraged I think you have the potential to improve a lot.
In future though one thread, and when you're learning state you're learning and trying new things. When you post things as commission work people are going to hold it to a higher standard.

So my service is a Table Top Level Service, you get different levels of Table top, but it stays in the table top range, i dont really do display levels of miniatures or miniatures that you look at and are just lost in shock and awe at its detail, i do what the client asks of me then when they have approved of the model i return it to them, simple enough, only ever had one complaint and that was due to error during shipping

See the funny thing is, people buy my work, and like my work, they conpliment my work, they come.back to me for more work, i dont know any of you so why should i take your advice, all you do is complain about how you dont like it, well im not painting your model, im painting a model for a client who is satisfied with my pricing and work. And ill keep doing it the way they want it and poat it up here for more people to see it, thank you and have a wonderful day

 Muggami wrote:
See the funny thing is, people buy my work, and like my work, they conpliment my work, they come.back to me for more work, i dont know any of you so why should i take your advice, all you do is complain about how you dont like it, well im not painting your model, im painting a model for a client who is satisfied with my pricing and work. And ill keep doing it the way they want it and poat it up here for more people to see it, thank you and have a wonderful day

You know me, bud. I know you. Maybe not in person, but close enough. I saw all your posts on the NC 40k group where I was one of many trying to encourage you. I posted constructive criticism then and still do now, but it falls on deaf ears.

You can look at the work of the posters here, as we all have a breadth of work under our belts and many of us are professional painters. Just because people come to you for your work and pay you doesn't mean this is up to what the community considers the base quality for commission work, as we have all expounded on at length.

Your attitude is maddening. You are the first painter I have encountered who is just like "Eff it, I get paid for this so it is good enough" and doesn't seem to want to push themselves. It is baffling that you are content with this very subpar work and even more baffling that your clients are satisfied.

I highly recommend you take the advice given and improve your skills up to the what most consider tabletop, at the least. You will likely get more clients that way. As it is, I can't imagine anyone here is going to see these threads (and the critique within them) and come to you for commission work.

You've had 2 high level pro painters, award winning, offer you helpful comments. There are some reasons to not dismiss it out of hand, but ultimately, it is entirely up to you. And you know what if your model is succeeding good for you, the proof is in the pudding and if you are busy and getting more business then you are doing something right.

As has been mentioned though, a lot of the comments are actually trying to help you, believe it or not. The fact there is a pretty significant consensus on many points... well, as you said, you can take it or leave it. But you will continue to receive comments of this nature I suspect, if it doesn't bother you, then carry on. If you would prefer more appreciative and complementary posts though, again, perhaps considering what is being said would help.

Good luck to you either way!

Generally you should take advice when it's correct, regardless of source. It's how we improve. You've had all this before though. Fair warning though, it does appear you're getting a bit of a reputation for spamming low quality work and proposing that it's 'epic'. It's not, honestly. I said to you before there's a niche for fast, basic work, but you have to present it as such. Trying to sell on quality when it's time/cost savings you're providing is misleading and will lead to the kind of flak you're getting.

 Muggami wrote:
See the funny thing is, people buy my work, and like my work, they conpliment my work, they come.back to me for more work, i dont know any of you so why should i take your advice, all you do is complain about how you dont like it, well im not painting your model, im painting a model for a client who is satisfied with my pricing and work. And ill keep doing it the way they want it and poat it up here for more people to see it, thank you and have a wonderful day

That attitude is what kills businesses. You better hope no one you sell to sees any of the vids by Duncan and sees how simple and easy it is, with a little practice, to achieve high quality "Table top".

Good luck in your endeavors.

 Muggami wrote:
See the funny thing is, people buy my work, and like my work, they conpliment my work, they come.back to me for more work, i dont know any of you so why should i take your advice, all you do is complain about how you dont like it, well im not painting your model, im painting a model for a client who is satisfied with my pricing and work. And ill keep doing it the way they want it and poat it up here for more people to see it, thank you and have a wonderful day

People buying your work or from white metal games where according to their website you are a member off, do they know your posting pictures with your own studios logo over it?

OgreChubbs wrote:
I am looking for where he said pro...... Anywhere...... If you can find it, it would be nice to see. Because what I see is someone posting a model he painted to a level he describes it as.

It's actually here:

 Muggami wrote:
Even professionals make mistakes, thanks for the feed back

As much as this can seem like attacking, I really feel people are trying to help. Judging from the 3 star review on his facebook page, this harsh criticism might be helpful. Quite frankly, someone has to say it.

 Backspacehacker wrote:

 Muggami wrote:
See the funny thing is, people buy my work, and like my work, they conpliment my work, they come.back to me for more work, i dont know any of you so why should i take your advice, all you do is complain about how you dont like it, well im not painting your model, im painting a model for a client who is satisfied with my pricing and work. And ill keep doing it the way they want it and poat it up here for more people to see it, thank you and have a wonderful day

People buying your work or from white metal games where according to their website you are a member off, do they know your posting pictures with your own studios logo over it?

That is him. He has changed his name, hence his avatar and stuff. Its a mess.

Exactly that's a heavy conflict of interest

 Muggami wrote:
See the funny thing is, people buy my work, and like my work, they conpliment my work, they come.back to me for more work, i dont know any of you so why should i take your advice, all you do is complain about how you dont like it, well im not painting your model, im painting a model for a client who is satisfied with my pricing and work. And ill keep doing it the way they want it and poat it up here for more people to see it, thank you and have a wonderful day

Sorry, but that's a terrible attitude. People started off constructive and even offered you pictorial examples of what they were saying could use improvement (and they were right). You're ignoring winterdyne and em_en_oh_pee for goodness' sake... just delve a little into who they are and the work they can produce, even if you ignore everyone else pay attention to them

Ultimately if people are paying you for your work, then fair enough. However, I suspect you'll struggle to expand your client base and get stuck at a fairly low price ceiling unless you take on board at least some of what's been said here. Time will tell.

Also, any chance you'll stop spamming the board and contain yourself to one thread like a lot of other commission painters who post on here?

..

Well, I've put the OP on 'ignore'. Not worth the time repeating myself over and over.

Oddly, I think this is probably the first time I've actually used the ignore function on any forum, other than Facebook.

For what it's worth, I've won a Crystal Brush or two in my time and I have taught several times at Adepticon and other conventions. I am close friends with several top tier pro painters (that you have definitely heard of) that make their entire living off painting, it's not a side hustle for them, they are 100% committed professional artists. They have more Golden Demons and CBs etc than you could fit in a house between them. If you want to reach a level where you are making good cash off it in the long term, listen to us. If you want to sour your reputation completely and run out of customers inside of 6 months tops, ignore. Your call.

See the funny thing is, people buy my work, and like my work, they conpliment my work, they come.back to me for more work, i dont know any of you so why should i take your advice, all you do is complain about how you dont like it, well im not painting your model, im painting a model for a client who is satisfied with my pricing and work. And ill keep doing it the way they want it and poat it up here for more people to see it, thank you and have a wonderful day

Dosent this end the thread?
Hes happy with it.
Clients happy with it.
He dosent seem to want to change / care.
Offering more advice, psuedo berrating and offering more opinion is going to go nowhere.....

winterdyne wrote:
Well, I've put the OP on 'ignore'. Not worth the time repeating myself over and over.

Oddly, I think this is probably the first time I've actually used the ignore function on any forum, other than Facebook.

I should do that... I think I am still a bit too amazed at the whole discussion lol...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ratius wrote:

See the funny thing is, people buy my work, and like my work, they conpliment my work, they come.back to me for more work, i dont know any of you so why should i take your advice, all you do is complain about how you dont like it, well im not painting your model, im painting a model for a client who is satisfied with my pricing and work. And ill keep doing it the way they want it and poat it up here for more people to see it, thank you and have a wonderful day

Dosent this end the thread?
Hes happy with it.
Clients happy with it.
He dosent seem to want to change / care.
Offering more advice, psuedo berrating and offering more opinion is going to go nowhere.....

That's a very fair point too.

 MajorTom11 wrote:
For what it's worth, I've won a Crystal Brush or two in my time and I have taught several times at Adepticon and other conventions. I am friends with some pro painters that make their entire living off painting, it's not a side hustle. They have more Golden Demons and CBs etc than you could fit in a house between them. If you want to reach a level where you are making good cash off it in the long term, listen to us. If you want to sour your reputation completely and run out of customers inside of 6 months tops, ignore. Your call.

Tis a dream of mine to win a CB or even place in a GD comp

 Backspacehacker wrote:

 MajorTom11 wrote:
For what it's worth, I've won a Crystal Brush or two in my time and I have taught several times at Adepticon and other conventions. I am friends with some pro painters that make their entire living off painting, it's not a side hustle. They have more Golden Demons and CBs etc than you could fit in a house between them. If you want to reach a level where you are making good cash off it in the long term, listen to us. If you want to sour your reputation completely and run out of customers inside of 6 months tops, ignore. Your call.

Tis a dream of mine to win a CB or even place in a GD comp

There is only one way brother - Practice, attention to detail, learn the details of how the techniques work, don't just apply them, and most importantly, turn to those who are at the level you want to be and take all their advice to heart. You don't turn into Banshee or Ben Komets futzing around in isolation, the top guys are a tight knit group who challenge and push each other. There are no rules about how to do it right, but there are definitely rules about how to do it wrong, if that makes sense.

Anyways, I better get out of this lol, see you guys in greener pastures!

I have to agree with others here. If you're advertising yourself as a commission painter then your work is going to get a bit harsher feedback. All everyone is doing is giving you is helpful advice. All you keep doing is just ignoring them. Sorry but, that's a terrible way to run a business.

RULE #1 - BE POLITE.

Broken a few times here and the offenders have been....dealt with.

RULE #2 - STAY ON TOPIC.

Should be pretty straightforward, right?

To the OP - given the volume of threads you're starting here, it would be best to restrict yourself to a single thread, and update the first post and title when you've got something new to show.

OgreChubbs wrote:
especially women avoid and mock table top games because there is a pissing contest among those who people already look down on the type. It is also the reason I do not bring models to a store or pretend I even know what they are, just incase I get lumped into a group that pick on someone for a little toy with paint on it. My god it is like a kindergarten fight. My picture is better nah nah nah.

I was going to make a post relating to how the nice Canadian guy is defending the OP and was about to take back my comment/edit it.

Then you proceed to talk about your own insecurities. We play with toys we paint with other grown men. Some of us are even paid for showing off are hobby skills! We do not apologize for the fact that the majority of wargamer's suffer from self imposed obesity which in turn triggers a lack of confidence in women, become a target for generic boyhood insults, and question the maturity of those who share the same hobby. We are a group of men and some women that enjoy rolling dice on our days off and showing other hobbyists the "new unit I just painted up for my army" or talking about "the crazy game we had last week". What you're talking about is for the off topic forum.


The consensus of the comments are:

1) When you post in the forum, you are ready for critique
2) If you advertise work that you are paid for, it's expected to be of a better standard than Blue Table Painting

Number 2 triggers users of Dakka when the quality is low

winterdyne wrote:
Well, I've put the OP on 'ignore'. Not worth the time repeating myself over and over.

Oddly, I think this is probably the first time I've actually used the ignore function on any forum, other than Facebook.

I had Brother SRM on ignore - 2~ years ago... but I honestly love his painting work / classic models so I changed it. It's a rare tool. People from Dakka have been great guys that I've met at GTs/Gamesdays/Adepticon.

We through the looking glass now boyz

 Muggami wrote:
Believe it or not there is a color to the sand, its rather hard to see, the client asked for a very very light brown coat its hard to see on camera

I don't believe it, because it's very clear from the picture that this is unpainted sand. If there's any brown paint on it at all then it's just barely a hint of it, and does nothing to change the base sand color.

But, aside from the color, it's also poor quality application of the sand. Having bare plastic showing through where you didn't bother to take the time to fill in the area around the feet is simply inexcusable on a commission piece. Simple is a legitimate basing style, but what you have here is not simple. It's a completely botched execution of the most basic possible basing method. And, TBH, if you can't even get something this basic right then why should anyone feel confident in buying your product in general?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Muggami wrote:
See the funny thing is, people buy my work, and like my work, they conpliment my work, they come.back to me for more work

{citation needed}

I find it hard to believe that you're getting many satisfied customers with this level of work. I know if I'd paid for you to paint something and got my models back with blatant flaws and poor quality like this I'd be expecting a full refund, and making a fraud report with my bank if you refused to provide it.

i dont know any of you so why should i take your advice

Because you want to improve your skills? And because you understand that you're trying to work at a business that is heavily dependent on having a good reputation? Do you really want to be known as "that guy who posts a bunch of poor quality work, don't buy from him"? Because that's where you're headed, very quickly. Just ask BTP how that kind of reputation turns out.

all you do is complain about how you dont like it

We have also told you why we don't like it, and where you can improve. If you were serious about commission painting you'd be listening and making use of this advice.

I try to stay away from the general talk in the thread, and just criticise the model.

Your base is half-assed. You used one material for it, rendering it very plain and boring. And even application of this one material is done fast & careless. And I've to agree, it is unpainted. You can tell it from the different shades in the individual stones, no way it's painted. Sorry but this is just poor thread to read. I don't know why you act like a big-shot and release work of this level - and continue to call it pro and ignore the feedback.

Painting itself is average. Far from special, far from excellent. Basic. I dont bash it to being below-basic, because I find my own skill set to be below basic.

I focused on the base. Mainly as I cant believe you sell these as table-top level. Let me put something for comparison, from your another thread.

Your blood bowl player:


My blood bowl player:


Your player's base; simple one rather thick coat of green and grass. White line of the field painted on base, prior to the grass (no grass on white).
Mine: basecoat of black, usage of 'clay' and devlan mud to create the land. Painted to different shades, then flocked with two different kind of grass. White sideline of the field painted, after the grass like in real life sports field.

See? I call myself a beginner, I have done 8 models after restarting my hobby in late 2016. If you cant top my work with the base (read: my work is far from amazing), I dont know how you sell your minis and advertise yourself as a professional. Sorry, but this is far from a level I would expect people to pay for.

Technical foul on iigoth, posting images from another personas gallery first down, 5 yard penalty.

But really though posting an image from another members gallery that's not already in the thread or with out their permission is generally frowned upon.

 Backspacehacker wrote:
Technical foul on iigoth, posting images from another personas gallery first down, 5 yard penalty.

But really though posting an image from another members gallery that's not already in the thread or with out their permission is generally frowned upon.

Sorry did not know this, just wanted to make an example that would be the most easy to understand. It was also the next thread of his down the line, and I happened to have a gobbo of my own so it was convenient.

Not being nasty to anyone but can we get a lock on this thread now it's helping no one.