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I was thinking this may be an actual legit complaint from a store owner until I read the rant. ~sigh~

I haven't looked at this in depth, but the guy definitely has a point. They made stores remove online shopping carts for years, let people add them back as long as they decreased their discount to 15%, and they haven't been the best company when it comes to IP.

They have no doubt ripped off Aliens (so much so that some people I used to know that worked in the Studio were expecting a lawsuit from 20th Century Fox in the 90s). Let's not forget the ridiculous copyright claims like trying to get Space Marine copyright and a whole bunch of other BS.

I love the new GW, don't get me wrong. I give the company buckets of money much to my wife's dismay, but they are certainly not without fault and they should be taken to task on some of these things. Unfortunately, this appears to be handled by "a fan" so it isn't going to go anywhere.

I actually thought this was a joke (post). OMFG, doomed to fail. Hope he is ready for GWs famous counter suit!

Someone on Reddit looked for this guy in the Florida Bar Association and couldn't find him. So my guess is either he isn't a licensed attorney or was disbarred (which helps explain the game store thing). So this won't take long for GW to test him apart.

Also, this guy can't complain on behalf of individuals not listed as plaintiffs (he listed a bunch of content creators that GW has riffed off of such as HR Giger).

The thing is , even if GW is guilty of all the things he says, it still won't hold up. Violating a verbal contract means nothing. Opening a competing store is common practice. In his own suit he repeatedly says GW 'asked'stores to do things. . In terms of violating copyright it is up to the holders of the ip to sue, not a third party.
This case had absolutely no legs to stand on, whether you think GW's business practices are bad or not.

Setting thousands of dollars on fire is quicker and generally more productive than bringing up frivolous lawsuits.

While I agree this guy is on the almond side of nuts, I always thought that GW had been lucky they hadn't been sued into the ground by the likes of Frank Herbert, Aasimov (The Foundation sort of setting), Fox/Geiger (for Tyranids/Genestealers), J.R.R. Tolkein (Eldar, Orks), Moorcock (Chaos depiction), Rebellion Development (Judge Dredd = Arbites, HabBlocs = Hive cities) and Sunrise (Gundam = Tau Battlesuits) and others.

I guess GW was mostly lucky they were such a small factor back in the 80-90's they just got overlooked, and they've become established now that most people actually aren't aware of how derivitive their stuff actually is.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
40k starts in the 31st Century?

Pretty sure it's the 31st Millenium....if one can't even get the basics right?

Well, Star Trek did face a bit of a decline after The Next Generation but not enough for them to go from close to utopian society to genocidal fascism within the space of 700 years

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Someone on Reddit looked for this guy in the Florida Bar Association and couldn't find him. So my guess is either he isn't a licensed attorney or was disbarred (which helps explain the game store thing). So this won't take long for GW to test him apart.

Also, this guy can't complain on behalf of individuals not listed as plaintiffs (he listed a bunch of content creators that GW has riffed off of such as HR Giger).

Probably represents himself. He has a fool for a client. Also, this stuff can go in the courts for years & cost thousands.... what a Derp.

 Stormonu wrote:
I always thought that GW had been lucky they hadn't been sued into the ground by the likes of Frank Herbert, Aasimov (The Foundation sort of setting), Fox/Geiger (for Tyranids/Genestealers), J.R.R. Tolkein (Eldar, Orks), Moorcock (Chaos depiction), Rebellion Development (Judge Dredd = Arbites, HabBlocs = Hive cities) and Sunrise (Gundam = Tau Battlesuits) and others

Me too, as the whole 40k Background (in context of what happened before M41) is a mix of Battletech, Starship Troopers and Dune which would be ok, if they would not sued other people for using the same stuff.

 Elbows wrote:
Your first problem is the person.

1) Florida (one of the many "joke" states of the US)
2) Game store owner (this is okay)
3) ...and Lawyer.

If you're a competent lawyer, you're not running a game store. This means someone who attended law school and somehow graduated but likely practices little to no law except attempting poorly worded attempts to getting small settlements from large companies. If the wording in that article is verbatim, the "lawyer" in this instance is borderline illiterate...and that's not a good start to your case.

Not defending this guy (he's nuts) but one of the major SoCal game stores is owned and run by a lawyer. His getting into running a game store was more after 15+ years in the law, he wanted to get out of that crap before it killed him.

Oh I am getting popcorn out for this! One more butt hurt soul that in convinced that the world owes him something. Learn to be a proper salesman, run events people want to be apart of, make your money the old fashion way EARN IT through working for it not buy discounting it! People pay full price for GW stuff all over the globe, just because you can't fire sale your stock and corner the market as the cheapest seller of plastic soldiers in Florida does not make you a victim of some evil across the pond power, good god does he have any idea how ridiculous that sounds? I am well aware that as Americans we are self entitled (to our detriment more often then I would like to see ) we want the highest quality on every thing and god help you if there is a price to match. Discounting only works in volume and every one wants the cheapest price they can get ( not an American only trait ) but welcome to a truly first world problem buddy. At the end of the day we are talking about toy soldiers, not the cure for cancer or a eco friendly power source. Get over your self and prepare for the wrath of the counter suit or at the very least nurd karma for wasting our time. LOL this should be good!

Wow, the part about good faith agreements... that's how you get screwed. Some places, verbal contracts are upheld in court, but that assumes a lot, including good documentation.

Yeah, the whole thing comes off as a rant, and filing legal papers riddled with poor use of English and sprawling attacks on IP that would set bizarre precedents hurting the gaming and fantasy industries (and which I'm sure the legal team involved with Tolkien's IP wouldn't blink at, since they've had relationship with GW for ages) given how derivative tons of the genre is, and gets grumpy about a company charging ridiculous markup on luxury goods is something I can't imagine does anything but waste a few people's time before getting rejected.

A precise and well-documented claim about personal business loss due to GW's practices could probably, with legal support, get some compensation and might give GW incentive to use better practices. This won't go anywhere.

Look guys, if Lucas was sued to high heaven for Star Wars (Lensman, Dune, Valerian, Hidden Fortress...) then I'm sure GW is safe for using other stuff for inspiration. Riffing is not ripping off, but it is the cornerstone of new creation.

This is complete bullplop!

I had no idea Mr Hutz had moved to Florida and opened a gaming store...

Chairman Aeon wrote:
Look guys, if Lucas was sued to high heaven for Star Wars (Lensman, Dune, Valerian, Hidden Fortress...) then I'm sure GW is safe for using other stuff for inspiration. Riffing is not ripping off, but it is the cornerstone of new creation.

And there's the very thing.

Inspiration is inspiration. Your end product just can't be an absolute carbon copy.

Space Marines? GW has gone into pretty exacting detail about what makes an Astartes an Astartes. It's not eugenics. It's full on technoarcana and new organs.

Genestealers? Beyond being exoskeletal alien horrors not adverse to mucking about on spaceships, there's really not all that much in common with Xenomorphs.

I don't believe the Plaintiff is a lawyer, at least in Florida, where the complaint is filed. He's not listed on the Florida Bar site and more importantly, in his complaint, its filed as pro se.

In any event, the case will be dismissed as soon as GW files its answer. In his causes for action, the elements of the actual laws/Florida/federal case law allegedly violated are not listed which are required since the plaintiff must prove that the acts of GW violate those elements.

edited by moderator

 Verviedi wrote:
Oh, great, now GW is going to go insane and rename all their armies and units to incoherent, copywritable babble.

They should petition Mierce for help with that.

 Taarnak wrote:

 Valkyrie wrote:
Can I get a simplified explanation of what's going on?

Seem like some rando maybe-lawyer, maybe-store owner is throwing a bunch of dubious legalese into a complaint against GW in hopes of collecting the $12.5 million USD he has listed for himself in punitive damages.

He even threw RICO into the mix...

Should be interesting to watch.

~Eric

Does using terms like "110%" really count as even "dubious legalese" these days?

I don't think that's going anywhere... especially weird that he conflates their internet sales policy (which was dubious, but finally is changed now right, and allows for shopping carts?) with their IP being derivative of random others.

RazorEdge wrote:
edited by moderator

Curiously, his papers appear to use the title Rev, so he may well be a religious persuasion. Could also be standard legalese for all I know.

RazorEdge wrote:
edited by moderator

Nah. It just sounds like he is a very frustrated game shop owner who couldn't afford a lawyer. If he hired one, I'm sure the case could be taken on a contingency (win fee) basis and he'd only be on the hook for filing fees. Not too familiar with GW practices, but from what I hear he might have a reasonable antitrust case...

I feel like this is a good example of a frivolous lawsuit.
Hell, I am not even a lawyer and I am certain this will fail.

RazorEdge wrote:
edited by moderator

Nice troll post. If the OP had anything like your assumptions I might have missed it. Let's try a little harder next time, hmmm?

 Gamgee wrote:

 MadCowCrazy wrote:
He could to be right on a few of the points.
I know from personal experience that GW does not always honor their return policy.

Fraud, Price Fixing, Tortious Interference, Breach of Contract, Unjust Enrichment, Restraint of Trade, Conspiracy and Antitrust Violations.

Of these I'd say Restraint of Trade, Conspiracy and Antitrust Violations are accurate.

Price Fixing? Isn't GW allowed to set whatever prices they want?

Doesn't price fixing usually involve two (or more) competing companies who decide instead of competing they want to manipulate the market prices? If I recall correctly I think AMD and Nvidia were sued for price fixing their graphics cards a few years back and convoluted to raise prices higher than they should have been. Here is the Canadian Law take on it. http://www.competitionbureau.gc.ca/eic/site/cb-bc.nsf/eng/h_00112.html

Price fixing can be both vertical and horizontal. Horizontal price fixing is what most people think of, that is companies colluding to set certain prices, which is usually done to squeeze out lesser competition. Resale maintenance or MAP as it's sometimes called is referred to as vertical price fixing. That is the manufacturer states in their contract with the reseller that the price can not be lower than X. Now back in 1911 this was ruled illegal in the US. However, later on Colgate instead of putting it in the contract released a letter that simply stated if you sell below X we won't sell to you. The court decided this was ok because it wasn't a contract. Recently (2007, probably why we are seeing lots of these policies pop up) a case came before the supreme court about this and the Supreme Court decided that the 1911 ruling should no longer apply and it shouldn't be per se (automatically) illegal. Instead they said that lower courts should apply the "rule of reason" on a case by case basis.

So vertical price fixing, that is resale maintenance policies, is neither legal nor illegal in the US currently. Instead a company must be taken to court, and once the company is taken to court it must prove that it's resale maintenance policy is not anti-competitive. Honestly if someone was going to take anyone to court over this to try and break their MAP it should be ANA. I think ANA would have a tough time explaining their MAP plus the fact they only deal with Alliance for distribution as pro-competitive. Who can afford to fight that battle though without some big pro bono representation like Chapter House had.

Best thing I learned from reading that complaint: injection molding services from China cost $0.03 a figure.

 techsoldaten wrote:
Best thing I learned from reading that complaint: injection molding services from China cost $0.03 a figure.

Yeah but creating the molds themselves is where the huge costs are. If you only make 200 figures, the number per shoots up.

I would love for him to win actually, might force GW to reduce their monopolistic prices.

 Stormonu wrote:
While I agree this guy is on the almond side of nuts, I always thought that GW had been lucky they hadn't been sued into the ground by the likes of Frank Herbert, Aasimov (The Foundation sort of setting), Fox/Geiger (for Tyranids/Genestealers), J.R.R. Tolkein (Eldar, Orks), Moorcock (Chaos depiction), Rebellion Development (Judge Dredd = Arbites, HabBlocs = Hive cities) and Sunrise (Gundam = Tau Battlesuits) and others.

I guess GW was mostly lucky they were such a small factor back in the 80-90's they just got overlooked, and they've become established now that most people actually aren't aware of how derivitive their stuff actually is.

Man if you're going down that route better get ready for about 99% of science fiction and fantasy to be sued somehow. Though i'm not sure by who in some cases: elves and orcs didn't originate from tolkien.

People often conflate common sci-if and fantasy tropes with intellectual property.

Trouble is, things like Space Soldiers, Fantasy Dwarves and Elves are common themes in a number of different books, movies, games, folk tales and fables.

It's how you make your version of these unique that makes them yours.