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 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
It may be something that was a holdover from the Great Crusade, where there simply wasn't an easy way to store geneseed from the vast amounts of space marines there were (think about the amount of stasis tubes they'd need) and was simply romanticized into "preserving the skill of the warrior" after generations of muddling after the Emperor's interment in the golden throne.

That does sound like a lot more sense, you know. In a Legion numbering tens (or hundreds) of thousands losing a single set of progenoids isn't quite as bad as losing the same when you only have a thousand guys total. The guys were shock troops but you had a lot of them and your Apothecaries probably had a way lower failure rate in implanting new Marines back in an era when they had the Emperor's knowledge fresh in mind straight from Him.

Maybe Geneseed itself became "incredible holy relic" stuff only after the Legions started taking heavy losses against each other with thousands of bodies lost, unrecoverable?

nareik wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
I still think a space marine is actually one of the 'least safe' places to keep it.

I literally lol'd when I read that.

It's like saying "well, an M1 Abrams tank is always manned by at least one of the best trained soldiers and has state of the art armour with significant NBC protection, is highly mobile and easily redeployed. In reality, destroyed M1 tanks are relatively rare (in terms of catastrophic ammunition failure: they get all their tracks blown off, park for a while, ready for repair. It takes a lot to kill an M1 properly)."

Therefore, instead of burying it in Fort Knox we should keep all our gold reserves inside of M1 tanks driving around on the battlefield.


That's.... hilarious.

You're mean and you are arguing against a caricature of my points, not against what I actually said. Also, I don't think your analogy actually compares that well. Gold is not to M1 as Geneseed is to Space Marine. The geneseed perhaps would be more like the tank commander who goes on to train more crews, or redundant systems that are built into the tank and are difficult to remove without damaging other components of the tank? I don't know, I don't have much to do with real warfare.

Also, note I did not say Space Fort Knox is a bad place to keep geneseed. I said keeping the geneseed inside the marines is cheap, usually effective and adds a layer of insurance for should Space Fort Knox eventually get raided. The fact I mentioned the strategies can be used together implies that I think keeping genebanks is also a good idea (but not perfect either).

Also, gold doesn’t go bad when removed from its tankubator, nor is it produced by the internal mechanisms of an Abrams’ tank.
Or, if it is, they’re keeping that one hella quiet…

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
I still think a space marine is actually one of the 'least safe' places to keep it.

I literally lol'd when I read that.

It's like saying "well, an M1 Abrams tank is always manned by at least one of the best trained soldiers and has state of the art armour with significant NBC protection, is highly mobile and easily redeployed. In reality, destroyed M1 tanks are relatively rare (in terms of catastrophic ammunition failure: they get all their tracks blown off, park for a while, ready for repair. It takes a lot to kill an M1 properly)."

Therefore, instead of burying it in Fort Knox we should keep all our gold reserves inside of M1 tanks driving around on the battlefield.


That's.... hilarious.

Yeah, when Fort Knox is one of the most well protected places in the most heavily armed country in existence then perhaps keeping all your stuff there is a good idea. Any 40k version of This would not exist outside Terra, Ultamar, and Titan. Anything else would be like keeping it in a box in your closet.

The only way a gene sees repository would be as efficient at protecting gene seed, not only for the chapter but against theft, would be if there were as many marines guarding it as there was geneseed stored. The way most chapters operate mean a catastrophic failure will only cost them a part of their gene seed stores. The catastrophic failure of a repository could kill a chapter that doesn't have a large support network.

nareik wrote:
Finally, storing geneseed inside marines is spreading eggs throughout baskets; if a conventional geneseed dump gets hit by traitors or other disaster then the seed inside the veterans acts as insurance against that.

That is a very good point. Look at the Crimson Fists after their Fortress Monastery was destroyed on Rynn's World. If they routinely removed all Progenoids when they matured and stored them there, the Chapter would have gone extinct. As it was, they were able to rebuild from a relatively small handful of survivors.

 Karhedron wrote:

nareik wrote:
Finally, storing geneseed inside marines is spreading eggs throughout baskets; if a conventional geneseed dump gets hit by traitors or other disaster then the seed inside the veterans acts as insurance against that.

That is a very good point. Look at the Crimson Fists after their Fortress Monastery was destroyed on Rynn's World. If they routinely removed all Progenoids when they matured and stored them there, the Chapter would have gone extinct. As it was, they were able to rebuild from a relatively small handful of survivors.

Or if not extinct,, then at least be the pawns of the Magos in charge of their geneseed tithes (who I assume would be able to return some of their tithed gene seed to them?)

Hmmm, this makes a super interesting plot point... My next marine army may have to be based around the idea that the chapter is having to earn back their geneseed by doing 'favours' for Adeptus Mechanicus. How humiliating!

 Karhedron wrote:

nareik wrote:
Finally, storing geneseed inside marines is spreading eggs throughout baskets; if a conventional geneseed dump gets hit by traitors or other disaster then the seed inside the veterans acts as insurance against that.

That is a very good point. Look at the Crimson Fists after their Fortress Monastery was destroyed on Rynn's World. If they routinely removed all Progenoids when they matured and stored them there, the Chapter would have gone extinct. As it was, they were able to rebuild from a relatively small handful of survivors.

And of course all the geenseed they send as a regular tithe to Mars?

If the majority of the Chapter is killed in battle and the geneseed is lost - smae issue arises as they go extinct..

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Karhedron wrote:

nareik wrote:
Finally, storing geneseed inside marines is spreading eggs throughout baskets; if a conventional geneseed dump gets hit by traitors or other disaster then the seed inside the veterans acts as insurance against that.

That is a very good point. Look at the Crimson Fists after their Fortress Monastery was destroyed on Rynn's World. If they routinely removed all Progenoids when they matured and stored them there, the Chapter would have gone extinct. As it was, they were able to rebuild from a relatively small handful of survivors.

And of course all the geenseed they send as a regular tithe to Mars?

Sounds like a great way to become a puppet chapter for the AM.

 Mr Morden wrote:
If the majority of the Chapter is killed in battle and the geneseed is lost - smae issue arises as they go extinct..

You are overlooking that it is being suggested that the chapter protects it's geneseed through many means (AM tithe, fortress caches, inside their veterans). Also, marines dying in battle is how new marines are born! Taking catastrophic losses but recouping the geneseed to create even more marines is the modus operandi of many chapters.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Karhedron wrote:

nareik wrote:
Finally, storing geneseed inside marines is spreading eggs throughout baskets; if a conventional geneseed dump gets hit by traitors or other disaster then the seed inside the veterans acts as insurance against that.

That is a very good point. Look at the Crimson Fists after their Fortress Monastery was destroyed on Rynn's World. If they routinely removed all Progenoids when they matured and stored them there, the Chapter would have gone extinct. As it was, they were able to rebuild from a relatively small handful of survivors.

And of course all the geenseed they send as a regular tithe to Mars?

If the majority of the Chapter is killed in battle and the geneseed is lost - smae issue arises as they go extinct..

If the entire chapter is wiped out then its natural selection. Clearly the difficient training methods and geneseed is better off gone. The exceptions being cases like the Crimson Fists, who were taken by surprise at their homeworld, or the Astral Knights, who made a sacrifice for the greater good.

But otherwise only a stupid and poorly capable chapter would go extinct. If you commit your entire force to a battle and lose it all, that's incompetance. If you continually lose small battles consecutively, that's also incompetance. If you hav low forces and commit to battle, also incompetance. There are ways to do the job without getting everyone killed. I can remember hearing how I believe, the Invaders? act as a small reserve force for another chapter due to their losses, supporting a fellow chapter while they rebuild. Its a smart move, and in fact, the Emperor's Children did the same with the Luna Wolves prior to the Primarch's discovery.

Maybe the removal of gene-seed is both extremely uncomfortable and somewhat shameful (why would you remove a space marine's gene seed if you didn't trust them to keep it safe?). From that assumption it would be considered dishonorable to the veteran for their gene-seed to be extracted.

Alternatively no one tracks how long the gene-seed has been maturing in the space marine, and a identifying a matured one is difficult, so they don't want to risk removing an unmatured gene-seed unless they have no choice. That's the somewhat more grimdark theory.